recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by GGgobbleCC » 12 Jan 2016, 16:18

Edgelord wrote: They mostly win at night... mostly.
Yeah, what is the prime-time victory rate? Counting the wins aliens get at 3 in the fucking morning when 2 people are on doesn't mean much

As it currently stands, unless the moons align you'll never see an alien victory prime-time. And the 'devs' and 'coders' seem intent on keeping it that way.

User avatar
Azmodan412
Registered user
Posts: 1318
Joined: 01 Oct 2015, 23:17
Location: The Void

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Azmodan412 » 12 Jan 2016, 16:58

Bath Salts Addict wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I like going Xeno because it means I can kill the incompetent shitheads who probably caused my death as Marine in the first place.

If I die as Marine because some idiot didn't patch me up or an SL/Command gave shitty orders, you bet I'm gonna take my revenge.

I don't get the us vs them mentality. You die, chances are your buddies aren't gonna give enough of a shit to recover your body unless it's festering in the FOB. I'd hate to see what happens if you play a good game of TF2 and be autobalanced. At least CM doesn't make you be an ayy.
I remember my old character, Ludwin 'the Kraut' Tranzig as SL. One of his squad picked up the MMI and Ludwin lasted the rest of the round as a portable brain.
Image

Tyler 'Thrift' Borealis: Slaughterer of stupid xenos, insane motherfucker, and who played tower defense with Predators with an axe.
Predator Duels Won: 1
Predator Duels Lost: 2

BRING IT ON CASANY! I DO NOT CAST DOWN A CHALLENGE!
43 Xenos and counting.

Hunter Games: I am Moon Moon! Destroyer of worlds! Ahuhuhuhuhuhuhuhu!
Moon Moon Victories: x1

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by GGgobbleCC » 12 Jan 2016, 23:16

http://imgur.com/smTB6Kj
Here is a prime-time round as aliums, not the number of players and number of braindead larva?

No one wants to play aliens

Gandalf
Registered user
Posts: 89
Joined: 26 Dec 2015, 19:18

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Gandalf » 13 Jan 2016, 01:36

GGgobbleCC wrote:http://imgur.com/smTB6Kj
Here is a prime-time round as aliums, not the number of players and number of braindead larva?

No one wants to play aliens
This is why I think the custom xenos suggestion is actually kinda critical to the game. I've been here as a queen too.

I think one of the main reasons people dont play xeno is that they're part of a faceless mass - players here love their identities and relationships and canons.

If we had xeno customisation along with battle damage and constant numbers that follow you through the game, I feel we'd have a lot more xenos playing. And as a result, a lot of the balance issues would cease to be.

User avatar
Lostmixup
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1020
Joined: 20 May 2015, 16:25
Location: Cloud 9

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Lostmixup » 13 Jan 2016, 08:16

Should balance for the pop the server is at the most, not low pop or super high pop. There should be things in place to make those two pop's playable, but it shouldn't be focused on balancing across all three pop extremes.
Default Scrolly Blur

User avatar
SecretStamos (Joshuu)
Registered user
Posts: 1291
Joined: 15 Oct 2014, 12:32
Location: Stars & Stripes

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by SecretStamos (Joshuu) » 13 Jan 2016, 10:45

Personally I think we need to make the Aliens a little more robust in combat. Marine armor makes the user too much of a damage sponge, which I think we should tone down a little. The Aliens should be actually scary to fight in close-combat.

Secondly, T3s need a boost in crowd combat. The Queen, facing off against three standards, doesn't have much of a chance. Maybe T3 melee attacks could hit adjacent targets?

Lastly, I think we need a nerf to defenses. Marines shouldn't be able to shoot through grills, alien weeds should be needed (they are weak off weeds and bullet sponges on them).

Right now it seems like both sides depend on the other side coming to them. Going on the offensive is too dangerous.

User avatar
TR-BlackDragon
Registered user
Posts: 722
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 17:24
Location: Usa eastern

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by TR-BlackDragon » 13 Jan 2016, 11:35

I agree with Joshuu

Wickedtemp
Registered user
Posts: 603
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 22:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Wickedtemp » 13 Jan 2016, 11:56

Going on the offensive isn't really that dangerous for the marines now, because I've often seen them ALL attack at once rather than sending a squad, because they either meta or ICly know that one mass attack is the only option. They abandon the FoB in favor of an "all or nothing" assault, that's not something that SHOULD be taken lightly, but it is.

I've seen a group of three marines kill half the hive, I've seen a LONE marine kill all of the T3's and the Queen with a 360-no-scope SADAR. And while I have seen a few Xeno's really tear up the marines at times, they don't win.

Too many marines and too few aliens. That's the main issue. Sure, we have twenty AFK larvae, but it's meaningless when it's the same 10 players using them.

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by GGgobbleCC » 13 Jan 2016, 20:21

Lostmixup wrote:Should balance for the pop the server is at the most, not low pop or super high pop. There should be things in place to make those two pop's playable, but it shouldn't be focused on balancing across all three pop extremes.
Well it has been shown consistently that marines always have a higher pop than aliens, so it should be balanced around aliens always being massively outnumbered

Which doesn't equate to giving marines a god damn rocket launcher with a ton of ammo

Pic related(and not pictured are the 15+ more off screen, becuase maries being able to join all round+cloning is totes balanced) that will also go ignored by the perfectly unbiased and competent coding and dev team

http://imgur.com/t0oqWZ7

I sure to love having one of two ways to attack the main marine area that sure won't be fortified to hell and back

User avatar
qsleepy
Registered user
Posts: 159
Joined: 13 Jan 2016, 23:02

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by qsleepy » 14 Jan 2016, 01:33

I played last night with a mostly competent xeno crew a couple rounds. The first one we were attacked by 8-10 marines with SADARS. The xenos played defense at the hive and played it well. The marines got panicky and ended up blowing themselves up with the sadar after letting their guy open to get shot with neurotoxin. Major xeno victory every time I play unless it is late at night and nobody is following orders or too tired to wait around.


I really prefer xeno, I hope it doesn't get buffed any more. I feel badly for the marines when there are 6+ aliens with a good queen.
Image

User avatar
apophis775
Host
Host
Posts: 6985
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 18:05
Location: Ice Colony
Byond: Apophis775
Contact:

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by apophis775 » 14 Jan 2016, 05:21

The next "buff" coming to xenos, is the larva AI I'm experimenting with.

User avatar
Stivan34
Registered user
Posts: 192
Joined: 14 Aug 2015, 06:23
Location: Memerines' spess sheep

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Stivan34 » 14 Jan 2016, 07:18

SecretStamos (Joshuu) wrote:Personally I think we need to make the Aliens a little more robust in combat. Marine armor makes the user too much of a damage sponge, which I think we should tone down a little. The Aliens should be actually scary to fight in close-combat.

Secondly, T3s need a boost in crowd combat. The Queen, facing off against three standards, doesn't have much of a chance. Maybe T3 melee attacks could hit adjacent targets?

Lastly, I think we need a nerf to defenses. Marines shouldn't be able to shoot through grills, alien weeds should be needed (they are weak off weeds and bullet sponges on them).

Right now it seems like both sides depend on the other side coming to them. Going on the offensive is too dangerous.
You can rekt a runner with a throwing knife actually, Make their armor stronger and make the damage higher.
Dabbingly dab.


Elite Hunter (596) AKA the MVP who died cause of vent superheating. GG

User avatar
Lostmixup
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1020
Joined: 20 May 2015, 16:25
Location: Cloud 9

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Lostmixup » 14 Jan 2016, 09:12

I don't agree with making the queen stronger purely because I believe that they shouldn't be in the front lines, but some minor xeno buffs might be good.
Default Scrolly Blur

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by GGgobbleCC » 14 Jan 2016, 17:03

apophis775 wrote:The next "buff" coming to xenos, is the larva AI I'm experimenting with.
Any hints on how that is in any way going to address the current massive imbalance?

User avatar
Azmodan412
Registered user
Posts: 1318
Joined: 01 Oct 2015, 23:17
Location: The Void

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Azmodan412 » 14 Jan 2016, 17:11

GGgobbleCC wrote: Any hints on how that is in any way going to address the current massive imbalance?
Ever seen the larva chambers nowadays with 10-15 larva without players, which is optimal? Yea... One marine breaking into there destroys the ENTIRE XENO team. 7 xeno and 14 SSD larva. Remove the larva, you severely cripple the enemy team. If the larva get AI, I'd love it, as a constant xeno player.
Image

Tyler 'Thrift' Borealis: Slaughterer of stupid xenos, insane motherfucker, and who played tower defense with Predators with an axe.
Predator Duels Won: 1
Predator Duels Lost: 2

BRING IT ON CASANY! I DO NOT CAST DOWN A CHALLENGE!
43 Xenos and counting.

Hunter Games: I am Moon Moon! Destroyer of worlds! Ahuhuhuhuhuhuhuhu!
Moon Moon Victories: x1

User avatar
Siserith Vassada
Registered user
Posts: 370
Joined: 06 Jul 2015, 02:32
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Siserith Vassada » 14 Jan 2016, 17:59

*fwop fwop fwop fwop bang fwop bang bang bang bang* alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. etc.

User avatar
Logi99
Registered user
Posts: 293
Joined: 26 Jul 2015, 12:32

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Logi99 » 14 Jan 2016, 18:03

Azmodan412 wrote: Ever seen the larva chambers nowadays with 10-15 larva without players, which is optimal? Yea... One marine breaking into there destroys the ENTIRE XENO team. 7 xeno and 14 SSD larva. Remove the larva, you severely cripple the enemy team. If the larva get AI, I'd love it, as a constant xeno player.
Or can we remove ssd larvas. Nobody cares about joining as one apparently
"There's been a new meme. So.."

Marine vs Predator Duels:
Predator Wins: 0
Predator Ties: 1 [Pred bleeded to death and decap'd me at the last sec. Had no AP D:]
Predator Lost: 0

User avatar
Azmodan412
Registered user
Posts: 1318
Joined: 01 Oct 2015, 23:17
Location: The Void

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Azmodan412 » 14 Jan 2016, 19:47

Then xenos lose hosts because the hosts die.
Image

Tyler 'Thrift' Borealis: Slaughterer of stupid xenos, insane motherfucker, and who played tower defense with Predators with an axe.
Predator Duels Won: 1
Predator Duels Lost: 2

BRING IT ON CASANY! I DO NOT CAST DOWN A CHALLENGE!
43 Xenos and counting.

Hunter Games: I am Moon Moon! Destroyer of worlds! Ahuhuhuhuhuhuhuhu!
Moon Moon Victories: x1

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by GGgobbleCC » 14 Jan 2016, 20:06

Siserith Vassada wrote:*fwop fwop fwop fwop bang fwop bang bang bang bang* alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. alien larve has died. etc.
So marines being cloned and joining all round goes unaddressed, assault of the marine base being suicide goes unaddressed, the massive damage and ammo capacity of the guns goes unaddressed, and the ability to just yank off a hugger 30seconds after getting hugged becuase impregnation take a full minute is staying too.

But hey! The larva might get some AI that might, maybe, probably not stop them from being killed! Oh joy, all those larva no one was going to play anyway will be so much safer.(If it works)

User avatar
Disco Dalek
Registered user
Posts: 191
Joined: 16 Sep 2015, 12:46
Location: In medbay, making all dem peridaxon pills

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Disco Dalek » 15 Jan 2016, 19:00

GGgobbleCC wrote: So marines being cloned and joining all round goes unaddressed, assault of the marine base being suicide goes unaddressed, the massive damage and ammo capacity of the guns goes unaddressed, and the ability to just yank off a hugger 30seconds after getting hugged becuase impregnation take a full minute is staying too.

But hey! The larva might get some AI that might, maybe, probably not stop them from being killed! Oh joy, all those larva no one was going to play anyway will be so much safer.(If it works)
Man, you and I think exactly alike. I'm absolutely disgusted that this FREE game isn't perfectly balanced and that the developers aren't currently nerfing marines into the ground. In fact, I think we need to remove all the oxygen from the Sulaco as well, breathing is OP. ;)

In all seriousness though, you aren't making a good impression by joining the forums and immediately complaining about imbalance. We all know the game isn't perfect and likely never will be. If you have an idea on how to balance things out, make a suggestion and it could change the game for the better.
Aka Dennis Hunt the (usually) overworked medic/doctor.
Currently AWOL due to my computer dying.

GGgobbleCC
Registered user
Posts: 80
Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 18:14

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by GGgobbleCC » 15 Jan 2016, 20:27

Disco Dalek wrote: Man, you and I think exactly alike. I'm absolutely disgusted that this FREE game isn't perfectly balanced and that the developers aren't currently nerfing marines into the ground. In fact, I think we need to remove all the oxygen from the Sulaco as well, breathing is OP. ;)

In all seriousness though, you aren't making a good impression by joining the forums and immediately complaining about imbalance. We all know the game isn't perfect and likely never will be. If you have an idea on how to balance things out, make a suggestion and it could change the game for the better.
If you read a few posts back I did indeed point out a few ways to fix the imbalance, I made that post to address that 'making larva ai' is the something that should be a bit lower on the list

User avatar
Disco Dalek
Registered user
Posts: 191
Joined: 16 Sep 2015, 12:46
Location: In medbay, making all dem peridaxon pills

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Disco Dalek » 15 Jan 2016, 20:56

GGgobbleCC wrote: If you read a few posts back I did indeed point out a few ways to fix the imbalance, I made that post to address that 'making larva ai' is the something that should be a bit lower on the list
Ah, my apologies. I read those suggestions a few days back and they slipped my mind when I was writing this. However, I'd like to point out that many of these suggestions, even on their own, would cause a complete reversal of the situation we're currently in. I'm not sure how long you've been playing for, but before the gun buff, aliens seemed like unstoppable tanks that would cut down small groups of marines on their own. You could pump them full of holes and they'd just keep coming.

Altering bursting, cloning, etc, would be a very hard nerf to marines and would likely result in much smaller server populations. Space walking is out of the question because it involves that which shall not be named (aka breaching). However, I'd be fine with some form of number five and eight. I understand it may seem I'm completely biased towards marines (especially since I'm a marine only player), but balance means we need to keep things fair for both sides. Aliens don't enjoy watching hosts, marines don't enjoy being stuck in a nest. Aliens don't like high bullet damage, marines don't like being tackled/hugged the second an alien gets within five feet of them. Finding something we can compromise on is no easy task.
Aka Dennis Hunt the (usually) overworked medic/doctor.
Currently AWOL due to my computer dying.

User avatar
Toroic
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1045
Joined: 25 Sep 2015, 04:05

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Toroic » 16 Jan 2016, 05:10

Disco Dalek wrote: Ah, my apologies. I read those suggestions a few days back and they slipped my mind when I was writing this. However, I'd like to point out that many of these suggestions, even on their own, would cause a complete reversal of the situation we're currently in. I'm not sure how long you've been playing for, but before the gun buff, aliens seemed like unstoppable tanks that would cut down small groups of marines on their own. You could pump them full of holes and they'd just keep coming.

Altering bursting, cloning, etc, would be a very hard nerf to marines and would likely result in much smaller server populations. Space walking is out of the question because it involves that which shall not be named (aka breaching). However, I'd be fine with some form of number five and eight. I understand it may seem I'm completely biased towards marines (especially since I'm a marine only player), but balance means we need to keep things fair for both sides. Aliens don't enjoy watching hosts, marines don't enjoy being stuck in a nest. Aliens don't like high bullet damage, marines don't like being tackled/hugged the second an alien gets within five feet of them. Finding something we can compromise on is no easy task.
The real issue is that due to damage being increased and breaching being prohibited, the sulaco is an excellent place to fight from and win. Any strategy that ends with 30 marines to camp the dropship landing pad is going to be successful. Xeno team will be wiped or crippled even if they do survive.

The only thing that keeps the win ratio somewhat balanced is the incredible, constant incompetence of the marines. If they get bored they'll mutiny or get into firefights.
"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you..."

Xenos Vult

User avatar
Ninjah!
Registered user
Posts: 72
Joined: 16 Feb 2015, 13:44
Location: The country of waffles

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Ninjah! » 16 Jan 2016, 14:49

Seeing from the current ratio it seems that marines really suffer from low pop due to command being unavailable. I think a rework of the squad system is needed so that you don't get 3 squads with 1 marine and a spec and 1 squad with everything.

User avatar
Disco Dalek
Registered user
Posts: 191
Joined: 16 Sep 2015, 12:46
Location: In medbay, making all dem peridaxon pills

Re: recent slew of marine victorys and how to rebalance

Post by Disco Dalek » 18 Jan 2016, 09:56

Just a thought I'm going to throw out there. I've seen a lot of talk recently about buffing nests/xenos/etc and making huggers only work in the hive. What are people's thoughts on implementing some form of the xeno restraint system mentioned in a recent suggestion as a way to bring marines back to the hive before infecting them? Tackle a host, restrain them so they can't run without a lot of resisting, and bring them back to an egg to get hugged. Granted, this would probably require xeno speed, attack, and nest buffs along with a possible nerf to bleeding damage from marines. I personally wouldn't mind a nest being impossible to escape from on your own if huggers only work from eggs. I don't have any experience playing as an alien, so I'm genuinely interested in what xeno players think of this kind of thing.
Aka Dennis Hunt the (usually) overworked medic/doctor.
Currently AWOL due to my computer dying.

Locked