Changing/Improving on Alien Nesting mechanics

[Hycinth]

You can escape from a checkerboard nest. I've seen marines do that, and I've done it myself. You get up, grab a knife, start cutting through the doors and hope that an alien isn't behind the door you're cutting down. If there isn't an alien, move to the next door. Repeat until free.

I've done it as well when there's been maybe one alien in the hive because the others are all on the sulaco/assaulting. If there's anyone even remotely in the area, you're not going to get out unless they're completely incompetent.

[Wickedtemp]

I've done it as well when there's been maybe one alien in the hive because the others are all on the sulaco/assaulting. If there's anyone even remotely in the area, you're not going to get out unless they're completely incompetent.

This is CM, it can generally be assumed that a good chunk of both sides are all incompetent. It's like driving, just assume that everybody else is terrible at it and you just might avoid a wreck.

Or you can just not get captured in the first place.

[Hycinth]

Or you can just not get captured in the first place.

Runner pounce doublehugger/carriers tossing huggers like crazy, and, as you said, most players are incompetent, meaning marines don't drag back/remove huggers/just run away the instant they see a single alien.

Honestly, the Xenos are less of a threat than the idiot marines you're forced to count on 90% of the time.

[monkeysfist101]

Or you can just not get captured in the first place.

Or you can just not get captured in the first place.

Or you can just not get captured in the first place.

Heh.

[Wickedtemp]

Runner pounce doublehugger/carriers tossing huggers like crazy, and, as you said, most players are incompetent, meaning marines don't drag back/remove huggers/just run away the instant they see a single alien.

Honestly, the Xenos are less of a threat than the idiot marines you're forced to count on 90% of the time.

It takes like three or four bullets to kill a runner, just kill it before it pounces you and don't go out on your own, never travel in a group less than three.

[Wickedtemp]

Heh.

What? Every time a marine nerf/xeno buff thread is made it's met with a chorus of "Just don't get shot." by marines. So, here's the same line that xeno players have been fed much of the time. Just don't get captured. Don't want to deal with a checkerboard nest? Don't get facehugged. How do you avoid getting facehugged? Travel in groups and stick together, work as a team. Xenos are really freakin' fragile now, if you see a xeno then chances are you could probably shoot it to death. Marines can even outrun every T3 xeno, and I'm pretty sure they can run faster than spitters but I'm not sure.

[Hycinth]

It takes like three or four bullets to kill a runner, just kill it before it pounces you and don't go out on your own, never travel in a group less than three.

Implying the other two marines haven't run off when the runner pounced, just wandered off on their own for reasons unbeknownst to sane persons, or are able to actually properly fire their weapon. I've literally seen marines walk away from pounced comrades before. I don't get it.

As for runners, hitting them enough to kill before they get at least one pounce off is difficult, particularly on Lazarus where they have all the room in the world to juke around at light-speed. On prison, they're hardly an issue.

At the same time, I love the idiot marines when I play Xenos. "Oh, I pounced your squad lead and I'm slashing his foot off? Yeah, you just... go wander off into the distance. Go do that."

[Wickedtemp]

Implying the other two marines haven't run off when the runner pounced, just wandered off on their own for reasons unbeknownst to sane persons, or are able to actually properly fire their weapon. I've literally seen marines walk away from pounced comrades before. I don't get it.

As for runners, hitting them enough to kill before they get at least one pounce off is difficult, particularly on Lazarus where they have all the room in the world to juke around at light-speed. On prison, they're hardly an issue.

At the same time, I love the idiot marines when I play Xenos. "Oh, I pounced your squad lead and I'm slashing his foot off? Yeah, you just... go wander off into the distance. Go do that."

And that sucks for the marines, because they have a "quantity over quality" mindset. They can't normally rely on teamwork, though some situations require it. A good squad can wipe out the hive when they work together, only takes one squad. Once the slow-as-fuck T3's are down many of the other xenos would retreat. Killing a T3 isn't even something to be even slightly proud of because it's just so easy now.

Back to checkerboard hives, yeah, they suck, but so do electric grilles. It's just something that the other team has to deal with sometimes, no point in getting salty over it.

[monkeysfist101]

What? Every time a marine nerf/xeno buff thread is made it's met with a chorus of "Just don't get shot." by marines. So, here's the same line that xeno players have been fed much of the time. Just don't get captured. Don't want to deal with a checkerboard nest? Don't get facehugged. How do you avoid getting facehugged? Travel in groups and stick together, work as a team. Xenos are really freakin' fragile now, if you see a xeno then chances are you could probably shoot it to death. Marines can even outrun every T3 xeno, and I'm pretty sure they can run faster than spitters but I'm not sure.

You show me two posts where someone said on a marine nerf/xeno buff thread where someone said "Just don't get shot." As long as xenos can throw facehuggers it's impossible to prevent a group from being facehugged. 1-2 facehuggers? That's fine. After that, your round is pretty much over because of a broken skull. I've seen a squad of seen marines that were sticking together and working together get taken by two carriers. TWO. As far as fragility goes, it's more than made up for by the rapid rate of complete healing. Feel fry to get salty over xeno health when they can lose limbs or go blind from just walking after an injury. I always laugh when people complain about T3 speed. What drawback do you believe they should have, or do you believe that they should be better stat-wise across the board?

After edit:

they suck, but so do electric grilles.

no point in getting salty over it.

Ahem. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Wickedtemp]

snip

And I've seen a lone SADAR unit take out the whole damn Hive. It happens. I've seen several marines get facehugged with NO aliens around just because they were too damn stupid to not go near the eggs. All of them were infected by the end of the raid. I've seen a group of five xenos take down the Sulaco, I've seen marines call an orbital bombardment on their own FOB, resulting in the deaths and injuries of other marines, I've seen MANY things. Unless it's a recurring theme, like the hangar fortresses that are built within five, maybe ten minutes of the shuttle being called by the Queen, resulting in Marine Major Victory, or something like the xenos constantly breaching the Sulaco when that was allowed, you can't really be salty over it. Well, you can, but then just...I don't know, get over it. It's an isolated event.

As for xenos throwing huggers, only one caste can do that, and that's the Carrier. Yes, other xenos can HOLD huggers, but they can't THROW huggers. If they try, it moves...one tile at most. If even at all, I haven't tested it recently because it's useless.

[Sikillgard]

I agree that the current situation isn't particularly fun, but it's really not checkerboarding, it's secure nest-building.

I can make a nest that is just as not-fun for marines, and has no checkerboarding. We could completely ban checkerboarding, and the marine experience would not be much different.


Marines escaping is just too devastating given how fragile walls and doors are, and being hug immune means that a t1 or even t2 will struggle against a marine. A smartgun marine who gets out of a nest almost always causes a significant amount of trouble. If not dealt with they'd rapidly kill every larva and egg in the hive.

I also agree with this train of thought. Guarding hosts checkerboarded or not is stressful and a bore a mind-numbing chore, especially if you're a lonely drone guarding 4+ angry marines. It's not satisfying for either side, nor can it be ignored by either side because backing down from the subject is surefire advantage for the opposition. A marine contends that they must have a chance, however slim, to break free and stay free. A xeno contends that they're justified to make sure the marine doesn't as efficiently, quickly, and safely as they can.

Toroic is right, a marine escaping a nest is a bloody nightmare. xenos rely on huggers far too much to rein in marines thanks to a shortage of long-term stuns, and being hugger immune means that it often takes two or more xenos to haul a marine's ass back onto a nest, with difficulty! Why shouldn't xenos checkerboard and babysit? Are they not justified in maximizing their survival? Is it too hard? Is it not fun? Is it not fair? Is it because the marines get one life, and to counter the respawning xenos, they should be allowed to "retry", or rather, deny xeno's mechanic altogether.

In the same vein, I think that marines are justified to commit suicide (within the current design). Why try to escape if chances are nil? It's one less alien, it's advantageous. It's certainly annoying, but so is checkerboarding and babysitting, one as a response to another.

I think that both sides do annoying things because it makes sense to do it. Yes, it's not fun. It's a bore. It's a chore. Nesting and the "failure-state" after definitely needs a redesign.

[apophis775]

Denied. I already outlined some resin changes somewhere else, and I'm already working on them.