Various Alien Adjustments

[ParadoxSpace]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
So I'm a xeno player. I've been playing xeno about since pre-alpha, and I have extensive time with every caste. Here's what I think we can do to balance everything.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Make xenos less literally wet paper bags armed with nerf baseball bats.
Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
All of them get a speed buff. No xeno besides the Queen should be outpaced by Urist McMarine.
All of them take less damage to the head, except Spitter, which will take more.
Runner: No changes.
Hunter: When they die, after 3 seconds they explode into a shower of acid. This is lore-supported. No other changes.
Ravager: Increase structural damage on their claws (they can rip apart plasteel barriers with relative ease.) Perhaps allow them to slash walls/r-walls (r-walls would take a good amount of time, would maybe produce noise.) Nerf damage they do on all body parts, slight increase on head/neck damage. Armor buff, perhaps immune to SMGs.
Crusher: Slightly increase damage their frontal crest can take. Perhaps give them an ability to settle down and gain a further buff to their crest, but they either can't move or move at a snail's pace. Nerf resistance other body parts can take.
Sentinel: No changes.
Spitter: SPEED. BUFF. Holy crackers. (Mostly because I refuse to give them their lore-friendly ability to leap places.) Perhaps a buff to how much the actual burning acid does in damage. It pretty much just rolls off marines from what I've experienced. (Your mileage may vary)
Boiler: They do not glow any longer. They can blow themselves up on command. Perhaps give them the ability to fire over other aliens, maybe some structures.
Praetorian: Armor buff. Claw buff. Tail buff. Basically, buff them to be lore-accurate, or at least somewhat. Perhaps adjust sentinel T3 evolution times to compensate. Acid nerf?
Drone: Tail buff. That's basically all they need.
Hivelord: We've discussed this already, resin structure buff etc. Perhaps increase regeneration of health.
Carrier: I really don't think they need any kind of buffing or nerfing. They're at a good spot.
Queen: They're fine. Maybe a tad armor buff.
Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
git into github

[NumerousPotatos]

I support all of these! But! I want to make an addition!
Resin walls: HEEALLLTHHH BUUFFFFFFFFFFFF
That's literally it.

[ParadoxSpace]

I was also going to suggest that T3's gain an immunity to electric shocks.

[coroneljones]

Some of these would be nice,ravagers and Wall slashing would be damn amazing

[Gandalf]

I disagree with MOST of this.

Ravagers should maybe have elec immunity, or at least be able to charge through electrified grilles. Girders would be nice too.

Maybe give them an ability to deal damage in a circle around them which would also destroy this shit.

I'm thinking those shitty standoffs where the marines surround the ladders with 4-thick electrified grilles and sentries. Crawling down is too slow, crushers cant get a charge up etc.

[ParadoxSpace]

I disagree with MOST of this.

Such as and why?

[Gandalf]

Such as and why?

Most of these are straight buffs. As it stands, xenos seem to be winning more often than marines.

There are a few situations where xenos fall weirdly behind - head-on combat is not one of them.

[Sikillgard]

Most of these are straight buffs. As it stands, xenos seem to be winning more often than marines.

There are a few situations where xenos fall weirdly behind - head-on combat is not one of them.

Sisterith pointed out in a thread I can't remember that the Xeno's counter to practically everything is just huggers. Damage from weapons, no matter how buffed, is negated thanks lightning-quick ambuscades and any decent sense of timing. Without proper lighting, the marines have usually half a second (maybe even less) to react to a charging runner dispensing it's insta-stun payload. Beyond that second, marines lay waste to everything they lay their hands on (assuming they don't fuck up from FF).

Which is coincidentally why I dislike SADARs, and the a lesser extent Scoped rifles. Both can react - to a mouse click - against ambushes quickly and fatally to xenoes, and SADARs are high-damage AND stunning in an AOE package.
Edit: the same goes for carriers. With the advantage of range lost, the marines have little to fairly beat the carrier except luring it into stuns like SADARs and mines, or avoid it altogether, or hope it runs out of huggers, or if you're already impregged, which to me is and has always been an subtle meta-abuse of mechanics. Even insulting is that the carrier's throws are as fast if not faster than bullets, making avoidance within range near impossible.

I admit that on paper it sounds like this is exactly what xenoes should be doing, hit and running, yet seeing it applied over the course of my observation of CM has shown that it's a source of constant salt. It seems like there's nothing marines can do about huggers when it happens, nor can xenoes can do something about guns when they happen. Both sides simply strived to avoid both altogether. When they can't, such as direct combat, it devolves into largely a game of reaction time - who can shoot first or hug first - with smart thinking falling to a secondary or even tertiary concern.

+1 So I like some of the suggestions, but I think buffing isn't the way to improve CM altogether.

[Gandalf]

[snop]

I agree. The solution isn't random buffs, however.

Xenos need more versatility, they need alternative ways to disable humans. Keep in mind that all the advantages brought by huggers are lost the second they wake up from a hug - xenos are at that point completely powerless nonlethally.

They're good at killing because of their variety of short disables and relatively high damage in melee, this is why a lethal T3 xeno rush will kill almost any number of marines unless they're SERIOUSLY entrenched or have lots of retreat room.

Besides, the overall balance now is about right. Giving one side free buffs will just unbalance it.

We need to specifically address things like nonlethally subduing the infected, transporting hosts and shit. Not having hunters explode into acid.

[Toroic]

-1 to pretty much everything.

Fundamentally, you don't buff and nerf based on lore considerations and not gameplay.

Secondly, your changes muddle the caste roles, not make them cleaner.

Thirdly, you massively buff ravagers offensively, defensively, and in utility. Ravager is not a weak T3, proving you're just basing decisions off of lore.

I'm pretty happy with current balance, and I firmly believe your changes are in the wrong direction.

[Hycinth]

-1 to all suggestions EXCEPT the spitter movement buff. Jesus christ they're so slow send help.

The sides are far more balanced now than they've ever been in the past. Xenos don't need a wave of straight buffs, even if they are lorebased.

[ChickenShizNit8]

-1 to about all suggestions.

You can't buff aliens like this because of Lore... If Marines had everything they had in the lore at their disposal now then... Holy shit they would win just about EVERY round.

Boiler spit going over/around other aliens? I like that idea though, that would be good.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

I'm going to give it a plus one here, for a few reasons. The spitter is slow, and it's a caste meant to keep something in the hive. If it can't catch what's running out of the hive, either ussaine bolt needs to stop visiting the hive, or the spitter needs to start running.The crusher shield could be of use to barricade a hive entrance, and let the hive get out if the assault is too bad. They are shields, they shouldn't be like 'Oh shit, these bullets hurt, let me turn tail and run'. The speed buff would be good, because it would let marines be able to flank behind, and remove it. The ravager being able to disable walls, yes. The ravagers claws are basically hell incarnate, but give off a loud sound of some sort, to let a marine know '..the fucks scratching at the walls?' And I'm iffy on the suicide boiler, because while some players would make the sacrifice, it would most likely be very limited use. So, all in all, a plus one.

[Toroic]

I'm going to give it a plus one here, for a few reasons. The spitter is slow, and it's a caste meant to keep something in the hive. If it can't catch what's running out of the hive, either ussaine bolt needs to stop visiting the hive, or the spitter needs to start running.The crusher shield could be of use to barricade a hive entrance, and let the hive get out if the assault is too bad. They are shields, they shouldn't be like 'Oh shit, these bullets hurt, let me turn tail and run'. The speed buff would be good, because it would let marines be able to flank behind, and remove it. The ravager being able to disable walls, yes. The ravagers claws are basically hell incarnate, but give off a loud sound of some sort, to let a marine know '..the fucks scratching at the walls?' And I'm iffy on the suicide boiler, because while some players would make the sacrifice, it would most likely be very limited use. So, all in all, a plus one.

Massive ravager buffs are a bad idea because currently only two castes can break reinforced walls: boiler and crusher.

Also, they suggest a small buff to crusher front armor followed by a nerf to other crusher armor... which is overall a nerf, even with a static shield mode.

Currently Crushers have heavy armor from the front, medium armor from the sides, and approximately zero armor from behind. Armor is RNG based and as a result not very reliable.

I'm not sure where the desire for a huge ravager buff is coming from. They are a popular and potent caste.

[Sikillgard]

Massive ravager buffs are a bad idea because currently only two castes can break reinforced walls: boiler and crusher.

Also, they suggest a small buff to crusher front armor followed by a nerf to other crusher armor... which is overall a nerf, even with a static shield mode.

Currently Crushers have heavy armor from the front, medium armor from the sides, and approximately zero armor from behind. Armor is RNG based and as a result not very reliable.

I'm not sure where the desire for a huge ravager buff is coming from. They are a popular and potent caste.

Well, they go down from half a mag. Ravagers resort to charge spamming hit and runs. Not very ravagy, I presume. But muh balance, understandably.
I don't think giving ravagers a shitty ability to break Rwalls is a bad thing. It would mean that xenos aren't as crippled if they need to breach a defense and lack crushers and boilers with no extra larva to supplement.

[Arachnidnexus]

I'd rather have Ravagers get the ability to pull apart girders or something. Especially since reinforced walls are much rarer than girder spam.

[forwardslashN]

-1
I've posted this a couple of times, but I think aliens are way stronger than marines as it is due to hugger stuns. I'd rather see aliens reworked from the ground up rather than buffed, somewhat arbitrarily.

[Halinder]

I'm going to uh.. -1 all of this. And -10 to the ravager buffs. Holy shit, no.

Well, except the boiler and spitter parts, anyway. I'd like boilers to be able to explode if already harmed, so that you can avoid marines flat-out killing you while being able to dodge and instead make your death meaningful. A slight increase in boiler plasma regeneration (to match spitter regeneration of 20, instead of its current regeneration of 15) would also be nice. Spitters don't need a huge buff, though, as currently their neurotoxin still gives them plenty of time to make their way to a marine 5-6 tiles away and tackle/hugger them.

EDIT: A crusher's ability to essentially become a wall would be pretty cool. Maybe have it automatically activate when they swap to STALK modes?

[Boltersam]

Personally, I gotta agree with the speed buffs....I find it kind of ridiculous how marines can kite sometimes.
But, as someone said earlier (Kudos to them) Xenos need to be reworked. buffs to them will tilt the scales in their favour, then there will be nerfs to them or buffs to marines to tilt the scales to marine superiority.

As of now, there's no such thing as a "middle ground" between the two.
I haven't seen the win ratio for the two (Due to dreamseeker insisting on stopping to work every time I try to play something), but from my experience, either the aliens are hunted down one by one, die in an attempt to overrun to FOB, or the Marines are slaughtered inside the FOB, leaving no one to guard the people on the Sulaco, or the marines run away and surround the shuttle to try to gun down all of the aliens inside.

This last point kind of crushes the will of alien players. Apop said that when aliens get onto the Sulaco, it's game over for marines "GAME OVER MAN!", but instead, it's a group of about thirty people encircling the shuttle.
To me, it seems like the odds are stacked in the marines' favour, or marines are rewarded for being scared children.

PS: I mean...come on! THIRTY PEOPLE. I'm not even joking...where were you when the FOB was being overrun?

[Hycinth]

Personally, I gotta agree with the speed buffs....I find it kind of ridiculous how marines can kite sometimes.
But, as someone said earlier (Kudos to them) Xenos need to be reworked. buffs to them will tilt the scales in their favour, then there will be nerfs to them or buffs to marines to tilt the scales to marine superiority.

As of now, there's no such thing as a "middle ground" between the two.
I haven't seen the win ratio for the two (Due to dreamseeker insisting on stopping to work every time I try to play something), but from my experience, either the aliens are hunted down one by one, die in an attempt to overrun to FOB, or the Marines are slaughtered inside the FOB, leaving no one to guard the people on the Sulaco, or the marines run away and surround the shuttle to try to gun down all of the aliens inside.

This last point kind of crushes the will of alien players. Apop said that when aliens get onto the Sulaco, it's game over for marines "GAME OVER MAN!", but instead, it's a group of about thirty people encircling the shuttle.
To me, it seems like the odds are stacked in the marines' favour, or marines are rewarded for being scared children.

PS: I mean...come on! THIRTY PEOPLE. I'm not even joking...where were you when the FOB was being overrun?

Win rate currently is about 1:1, and I've only actually seen one (fairly) unfair hangar defense in the past few days, and that was due to the marines mounting counteroffensives and giving the engineers time to solidly block off the dropship.

[Edgelord]

I always thought it made sense for the Boiler's rounds to not be blocked by friendlies. I mean it is a mortar right? It would sail up into the air and land on the target.

[Stivan34]

Can you fucking stop saying nu nu alium buff mehreens gotta rambo? Also the queen was faster than the marines in the movie.

[Logi99]

Do you know how much this can give us. I'm annoyed every time we come to the frikin sulaco nearly all of our t3s die because bullshit barricades everywhere. This buff can actually help. I'd like to see it, if it goes wrong were gonna need nerfs for em. But a Big Fat 1+ from me.

[Gandalf]

Can you fucking stop saying nu nu alium buff mehreens gotta rambo? Also the queen was faster than the marines in the movie.

This post is shit on a number of levels.

A onesided buff right now would unbalance the game. That's not 'm-muh rambo marines', that's just basic game theory.

Lore is secondary to gameplay.

A series of random buffs with no motivation beyond lore is a terrible, terrible idea.

[Toroic]

This post is shit on a number of levels.

A onesided buff right now would unbalance the game. That's not 'm-muh rambo marines', that's just basic game theory.

Lore is secondary to gameplay.

A series of random buffs with no motivation beyond lore is a terrible, terrible idea.

This is the sort of post I agree with so much I'm going to remember it in the future and try to do something nice if I can.