A rule restricting Marines from carrying two rifles.

[Burt]

[DOUBLE POST,PLEASE IGNORE]

[Burt]

-1 same thing as removing specialist.

[GGgobbleCC]

+1 for sure, the tears flow when someone might put more than a few huggers in a spot or dare make more than 1 paper thin resin wall in a square

The very least something can be done to try to give the favored marines at least one handicap is stop them from having a gun in every orifice

Heres who most encounters go nest wise
-Nest a guy, he breaks out in 15 seconds and pulls a gun out of his ass.
-If someone is nearby you tackle him and nest again, and 15 seconds later bam another anal gun. Repeat ad nasum
-No one near by? He tore down all the paper thing walls, nests, doors, and murdered everyone because marines run like the Flash and tank hits like Superman while fireing a gun that may or may not be as strong as a tactical nuke with infinite ammo

[Edgelord]

Please pass the Salt, this thread has derailed.

[Jen_Llama]

-Nest a guy, he breaks out in 15 seconds

RIP thread

[MrJJJ]

RIP indeed

[Steelpoint]

-Nest a guy, he breaks out in 15 seconds and pulls a gun out of his ass.

The only way you could """"""""""solve"""""""""" this is either via yet another thing admins have to keep an eye out for, or removing the ability to sling your gun in either your armour exo slot or your back slot. Either of which will fuck over a lot of Marines, standard or otherwise.

[Gentlefood]

I don't usually carry a second weapon unless the Sulaco is boarded. However this is a conflict of game mechanics and roleplay desire. Ultimately I'm going to go ahead and say -1.

But here's why; SS13 has the rather poor implementation of that disarm intent makes you lose your weapon if it hits you regardless of the end result (tackle or just disarm). That makes it so its impossible in the current code, without some rather heft changes, to keep hold on something if you're knocked down. This means the marine instantly loses his only source of acceptable damage. This would be equivalent of if marines shot Xenos into crit once they lose the ability to slash until they fully heal. And even in that comparison its not even quite equal, as getting a new rifle likely would take longer than sitting on weeds for 20 seconds.

And in the interest of 'roleplay'. It makes no sense for the marine to lose their gun EVERY single time they're knocked down. Even without fancy mag strips if you have a death grip on something, you're not going to let go unless your arms are directly targeted or you go unconscious. And last I checked, most if not all of the marines in the various Aliens movies had slings on their rifles. Hell the Smartgunners had backup M41As. So unless you make mag strips standard for every M41A this is going to be a -1 from a pure gameplay perspective. Its unrealistic, but there are a lot of unrealistic things in SS13 due to game mechanics.

[Pilcrow]

Well, I'm a spriter, so I'd hope that I'd be working on sprites rather than dorking with the code. Aside from that, until a month and a half ago, we had ONE spriter, ONE mapper (which is in fact a dev position,) and ONE coder. We're not "fucking about," we're not "fuckler(s)," and frankly you have no business coming on the forums and insulting my colleagues.

>mapper
That explains the fucking sword and thermal goggles hidden away on the planet then.
Every time.

[Solacian72]

After reading the arguments, I will give my opinion. I did some research, and looked into the real M4A1, which is very light. This gun seems to be the closest thing to the M41A, and guess what? It only weighs about 7.5 POUNDS. Ammunition won't be heavy, either. In this case, it is entirely plausible for a marine to carry two rifles. I also looked at the wiki of the M41A, and the first line it says is "LIGHT WEIGHT AND RUGGED." It is made from an ultra-light aluminum alloy, so it won't be that heavy. Now, for meta-game purposes, I can see where you are coming from. To be honest, some soldiers do carry two rifles into the field. There are plenty of reasons why a marine would want to an extra rifle to the planet. He could be carrying one in case one of his squad members looses his own, or the marine doesn't know what happened down there, and wants to bring an extra gun for safety purposes. Also, what's wrong with carrying two rifles? They are the same exact gun. Don't give me "b-b-but he'll b-bring more ammo!" And? What's stopping me from bringing rifle ammo and nothing else? So, without further ado...


-1

[Steelpoint]

Also if I recall correctly the ammo for the M41A is caseless, meaning the actual bullets would overall be significantly lighter to carry than modern day bullets and magazines. So weight is no real problem here.

[monkeysfist101]

After reading the arguments, I will give my opinion. I did some research, and looked into the real M4A1, which is very light. This gun seems to be the closest thing to the M41A, and guess what? It only weighs about 7.5 POUNDS. Ammunition won't be heavy, either. In this case, it is entirely plausible for a marine to carry two rifles. I also looked at the wiki of the M41A, and the first line it says is "LIGHT WEIGHT AND RUGGED." It is made from an ultra-light aluminum alloy, so it won't be that heavy. Now, for meta-game purposes, I can see where you are coming from. To be honest, some soldiers do carry two rifles into the field. There are plenty of reasons why a marine would want to an extra rifle to the planet. He could be carrying one in case one of his squad members looses his own, or the marine doesn't know what happened down there, and wants to bring an extra gun for safety purposes. Also, what's wrong with carrying two rifles? They are the same exact gun. Don't give me "b-b-but he'll b-bring more ammo!" And? What's stopping me from bringing rifle ammo and nothing else? So, without further ado...


-1

Xenopedia gives the weight at 11 and change pounds with the magazines weighing 3.75 pounds. You may not think that sounds like much, but two rifles and five spare mags weighs approximately 48.25lbs or 22.89kg. Keep in mind that this does not include your helmet, armor, and figurative mountain of attachments.

Weight is absolutely an issue here.

[Gentlefood]

Xenopedia gives the weight at 11 and change pounds with the magazines weighing 3.75 pounds. You may not think that sounds like much, but two rifles and five spare mags weighs approximately 48.25lbs or 22.89kg. Keep in mind that this does not include your helmet, armor, and figurative mountain of attachments.

Weight is absolutely an issue here.

That magazine weight is likely for the 100 round mag. The ingame 30 would weigh a fraction of that, wouldn't surprise me if it was around 1lb. So instead of 48.25 you're looking at 27lbs with the same loadout. That's likely not much heavier than the backpack he'd be wearing instead.

And also on the note of weight. If we're really going to do this, are you going to start limiting what Combat Engineers can bring? Because 100 sheets of Metal and 30 sheets of Plasteel is a fucking huge amount of material. And you can fit even more than that in the backpack if you so desire. Considering 4 sheets of metal makes a fucking Girder and 2 more makes a solid wall you're telling me that a marine can lug around 100/6 walls worth of metal and yet two rifles is somehow impossible?

[Steelpoint]

Well if we examine the issue closer the M41A is closer to the M41A Mk 2 Pulse Rifle, which is built to with a far lighter frame in mind, as well as a significantly smaller magazine, and thus weight, count. A single M41A Mk2 mag would have aprox 1/3rd the weight of a standard 99 round magazine, give or take, let alone the weight reduction from the M41A rifle itself.

Another thing to look at is their body armour. Modern US Armour weights around 30 pounds, or 13 kilo's. In comparison the USMC M3 Armour is designed, and I quote, to balance lightness and comfort with optimum protection. While weight is not given there are many explicit mentions that the armour is very light weight.

So at a most generous estimate, asuming we just half the weight of standard US modern armour, you could argue that USMC armour (plus helmet) weighs perhaps around 16 pounds, or 7 kilos. That's pretty dang light weight.

--------------------

Let's assume the soldier's are carrying stock M41A's with stock M41A Magazines at monkeyfist's weight statement.

Put togther the aprox 16 pound/7kg armour and the weight of two rifles (7 pounds/3.2kg each) and five spare mags(3.7 pounds/1.7kg each). That would bring it to around in total 48.5 pounds or 21.9 kilograms. Plus add ten or twenty pounds (or half for kg) for whatever else like food or support items.

That's not that bad, especially when the standard US Soldier apparently carries 60 to 120 pounds of equipment into battle.

[Solacian72]

Xenopedia gives the weight at 11 and change pounds with the magazines weighing 3.75 pounds. You may not think that sounds like much, but two rifles and five spare mags weighs approximately 48.25lbs or 22.89kg. Keep in mind that this does not include your helmet, armor, and figurative mountain of attachments.

Weight is absolutely an issue here.

Then let's say engineers can't bring a gun to the planet can can hold the same amount of sheets, or they can only hold 10 sheets while we're at it, since weight is "such an issue" Hell, let's limit every marine to two weapons, a main (shotgun, smg, and assault rifle) and a pistol, since weight is an issue. Don't try to pull this argument on me, lad. (And if you can't tell, my weight recommendations are sarcasm. Sarcasm is hard to comprehend on the internet, I know.)

[Jack McIntyre]

Oh how about you just bring a mag sling and you never had to worry about losing your gun.

[Gentlefood]

Oh how about you just bring a mag sling and you never had to worry about losing your gun.

Okay sure. Just make mag slings standard issue for every Marine then.

[Arachnidnexus]

I'd be fine with this rule if the mag harness was standard or super easily available and didn't take up the rail slot (rename it to a sling and make it take up no weapon slots). But as is it's easy to render a marine harmless by huggering them or chaining stuns (unless you get screwed by rng, but that's just SS13 combat in general).

[Halinder]

What if we don't bring an additional rifle because of the idea of losing them, but instead because:
1. It eliminates ammo variety, allowing you to carry more rifle magazines.
2. Instead of reloading, you can switch to the second rifle and continue firing in seconds.
3. As stated before, weapons can be fitted with attachments to have different roles.

[Egorkor]

-1, everything said above.
plus I personally
a - dislike making the admins' job harder.
b - think that even with all the alien salt lately, it's too much of a change for the marines.
For the record I do not bring a second rifle, I loot it off of captured marines or use a sidearm.

[Azmodan412]

A decent marine player can one hand his rifle, take out a new mag, pop it in and bring the rifle back up in what, 3-4 seconds if that?

[monkeysfist101]

A decent marine player can one hand his rifle, take out a new mag, pop it in and bring the rifle back up in what, 3-4 seconds if that?

I've got mine down to about 3 depending on lag.

[Davidchan]

-1, for starters this rule suggestion is coming from butt hurt Xenos who instantly try to acid any weapon that touches the ground

This never happens in Aliens. Hell, even when Hudson, yes is that Hudson, is being grabbed and dragged into the floor by multiple Hunters he's still able to maintain a grip on his weapon and fire at them. So dropping weapons is purely an SS13 mechanical situation and one that players are forced to compensate on.

Is this ruling going to make mag rails ubiquitous and available to every single marine? Change them so they don't consume the rail slot of the beloved RDS and QF? Prevent/Remove Xeno disarms from making marines drop their weapons for damn reason?

"But no marine would ever go into a situation with two identical rifles"

True, but no marine sent into an unknown Distress Call would go without Nightvision goggles, grenades, at least 2 frag and 2 stunner grenades, let alone slings for their rifle and full harness for carrying their gear and ammo. But marines get none of these, some by default and some at all. Xenos in CM are for more capable than they've ever been in any other form of canon (healing wounds almost instantly, carrying huggers rather than bring the host to nest for infestation, teleportation vent crawling, THERMAL VISION, ect...)

[Sikillgard]

dropping weapons is purely an SS13 mechanical situation and one that players are forced to compensate on.

Basically my sentiments.

[Bath Salts Addict]

this rule suggestion is coming from butt hurt Xenos

This thread doesn't need any more toxic behavior from people who are shocked that someone would dare go against their perfect loadouts or what-not.

Get out.