Re-Add Marine Armory Access

[Mitchs98]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Re-add Marine Armory access for Req and MP Roles. Doctors still have access to it, why not Req? Or MP? I mean, I know MP have their own small armory but..two mags is hardly enough to be of use per gun when boarded. Req NEEDS access to those machines to properly get supply drops done, this in itself is a severe nerf to marines.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Rebalance marines resupply, make Req useful again.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Just...delete/re-add a line of code stating these jobs have the required access levels. It'll make it feasible for Req to actually have supply drops that are useful again. Either that or make the points in Req add a LOT faster. Note: This is entirely possible it was an unintentional bug, I'm not sure.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Add a line of code/delete a line of code.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

Odd,last time I was an MP I was able to arm myself in the marine armoury.

Unless this is some sort of April fools prank then,eeeh.Meh?

Okay,from reading the other comments it seems requistions needs a buff for ammo and shiz.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

The only people who should have access to the armory are the marines and the command staff.

[Mitchs98]

The only people who should have access to the armory are the marines and the command staff.

That...makes no sense? That now makes Req entirely useless unless you get a marine to help you because apparently the RO no longer has access either. Marine resupply is now going to be near impossible. I could see MP not having access, maybe, but not Req.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

That...makes no sense? That now makes Req entirely useless unless you get a marine to help you because apparently the RO no longer has access either. Marine resupply is now going to be near impossible. I could see MP not having access, maybe, but not Req.

If it becomes a problem, we can probably give cargo a buff. They should be ordering the materials they resupply the marines with, not taking them from the armory.

Truthfully, we've gotten a lot of complaints about the armory being picked clean by Req. Many marines who arrive late-round have trouble finding helmets.

[Gentlefood]

If it becomes a problem, we can probably give cargo a buff. They should be ordering the materials they resupply the marines with, not taking them from the armory.

Truthfully, we've gotten a lot of complaints about the armory being picked clean by Req. Many marines who arrive late-round have trouble finding helmets.

You need to buff the hell out of cargo then.

Ammo supply costs an outrageous amount of points for the insignificant amount of ammo it brings, they can resupply one maybe two marines max. The Armor crates are never worth ordering outside of the Squad Leader one due to high cost and they only come with like 2-4 helmets. That's not enough for a single squad, let alone all the marines planetside.

[Wickedtemp]

If it becomes a problem, we can probably give cargo a buff. They should be ordering the materials they resupply the marines with, not taking them from the armory.

Truthfully, we've gotten a lot of complaints about the armory being picked clean by Req. Many marines who arrive late-round have trouble finding helmets.

Can confirm, joined late as a marine, there wasn't a single helmet or pulse rifle mag left, I actually had to loot an SSD player to get most of the gear, including a delta headset.

[Mitchs98]

You need to buff the hell out of cargo then.

Ammo supply costs an outrageous amount of points for the insignificant amount of ammo it brings, they can resupply one maybe two marines max. The Armor crates are never worth ordering outside of the Squad Leader one due to high cost and they only come with like 2-4 helmets. That's not enough for a single squad, let alone all the marines planetside.

^ This. Marines have helmets in their lockers in preps, there has never been an instance where there isn't ONE helmet in prep for them to take. There's no sense in nerfing the entirety of the marines for people who are to lazy to check all the lockers, to be frank. And if there's no pulse rifle mags left, then tough. That's when Req needs to start ordering more or empty clips need to be scavenged from the FOB to be reloaded into machines. Again, no point in nerfing every single marine for those few that late join.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

I've actually had rounds where I've joined last and I've been unable to obtain any helmets or pulse mags.

I think it would be more logical to make armor crates cheaper and contain more helmets, and to do the same for ammo crates.

[Wickedtemp]

^ This. Marines have helmets in their lockers in preps, there has never been an instance where there isn't ONE helmet in prep for them to take. There's no sense in nerfing the entirety of the marines for people who are to lazy to check all the lockers, to be frank. And if there's no pulse rifle mags left, then tough. That's when Req needs to start ordering more or empty clips need to be scavenged from the FOB to be reloaded into machines. Again, no point in nerfing every single marine for those few that late join.

Not true. Once as a late-join delta squad marine, every locker was empty except for the underpants that everyone starts with. Sure, maybe one of the other squad lockers might've had something, but I don't have access to those. The vendors were empty of all mags and helmets as well. I had to loot an SSD marine for a helmet and a squad headset and a couple mags for the rifle, before I realized I could just get three rifles from the vendor and take the mags out of em.

[Mitchs98]

I've actually had rounds where I've joined last and I've been unable to obtain any helmets or pulse mags.

I think it would be more logical to make armor crates cheaper and contain more helmets, and to do the same for ammo crates.

I've never had it happen, must be a rare instance it does to be honest. I HAVE had no pulse mags before. That said: Making the crates cheaper and contain more could work. Perhaps just have a 'helmet crate' that contains double or triple the amount of helmets it does so far and half the cost? No one needs spare chest armor, ever, thus I find it irrelevant but thats just me.

Same thing for ammo crates. It'd be easier to split them up, fraction the cost, and have more mags by far in each for more effeciency/better cargo now that they don't have access to the vendors. Perhaps include more ammo in the MP Armory as well as boot knives now that this is a issue for them to? Dunno.

[username123]

This has to be a joke, in case is not, the dev team just killed REQ, now they'll literally only give attachments and ammo for the specs, because the ammo, armor and 90% of the crates don't have what the marines need, only "worthy" crates are the explosive one (which people only order for the mines because legit no one needs grenades), spec ammo and some times the surgery crate when there is one of the 3 or 4 good doctors than play in the server. Metal and plasteel is not worth because most of the times the engineers tend to store the materials and "save it for when i really need it" just sto die a minute later with all the materials in their backpack, the ammo crate has enough ammo to supply 1/2 of the ammo needed for a single m41 rifle or shotgun, the armor crate has a decent ammount of helmets (5) and 5 useless armors that no one ever needs, but still not worth because it cost 30 points for only 5 helmets, i'd rather print 10 welding mask in the autolathe than ordering that crate, also, the squad leader crate is a joke, too much points (60) for a helmet and an armor that squad leaders never lose, i'd never order than crate even if Xur ask for one, The sentry crate is too expensive and most engineers don't even know how to properly build a sentry, i never in my entire time playing in the server saw someone asking for a sentry crate or ordering one, everyone knows that is too expensive for what it gives, it's even better to order 5 explosive crates (only for the mines), and give the grenades for the marines that have exactly 46 chromosomes, because if they have 1 more or 1 less, they'll blow themselves and their squad mates with it.

Req actually needs a rework, crates don't have what marines need, and some of them are broken, is very funny to know that the low caliber ammo crate has 4 10mm mags and 2 shotgun shell box at the price of 24 points, and the assault rifle crate has 5 m41a assault rifles with mags included at the price of 35 points. Lets do simple math to calculate the price of the 10mm mags in the game:

Low caliber ammo crate: 10mm ammo (4), 2 shotgun shell boxed. Let's pretend each box is worth 3 points for a total of six and remove them. 24 points - 6 points = 18 points, (18 points / 4)= 4.5 points each mag, but lets assume they are worth 4 points each.

Assault rifle crate: 5 m41 assault rifle with mags in them, 5 mags at the price of 4 points each, [35 points - (5*4mags)]= 15 points for 5 m41 rifles, (15 points/5)= 3 points for EACH RIFLE. you telling me that 1 m41 mag is worth more than the weapon itself? it only doesn't make sense but with no offense, looks like the person that designed and added the price of the crates does not play the game, or that person designed the crates to never be bought or ordered by the requisition team.

And this is only an example for a single crate, 80% to 90% of the total crates have the same problem.

As for the suggestion, you have my +1.

[monkeysfist101]

Look, guys. This is to prevent MTs and ROs from gearing up and ignoring their role. Cargo isn't dead; it'll be reworked in time, but restricting access to marine ranks is a good step in the right direction.

[username123]

Look, guys. This is to prevent MTs and ROs from gearing up and ignoring their role. Cargo isn't dead; it'll be reworked in time, but restricting access to marine ranks is a good step in the right direction.

And ignoring their role? i'd get if the dev team removed the access for the MT's, but removing it for the RO and CT? 70% of the REQ work or more is to supply ammo, helmets and usually flares and meds using the supply pads for the squads on the ground, now what are they suppose to do now, order the extremely costly armor and ammo crates of the console? now the supply pads will be used less than they did and marines will need to supply themselves using the vendors returning to the sulaco while the RO and CT sit in REQ doing nothing while they wait for the console to generate points, you said that you guys did good step in the right direction, but for me and everyone else is like if the dev team removed all the guns of the game to prevent griefing, or removed all the medical items to prevent powergame.

[Mitchs98]

Look, guys. This is to prevent MTs and ROs from gearing up and ignoring their role. Cargo isn't dead; it'll be reworked in time, but restricting access to marine ranks is a good step in the right direction.

This really makes no sense. They're SUPPOSED to arm up during boarding or code red. What kind of military vessel would NOT allow it's civillian staff to defend themselves? Especially against freaking aliens the size of trucks and small houses. It's not a good step in the right direction, at all. Not one bit. Now marines will be forced to have EVEN LESS people fighting to defend the Sulaco solely due to those few that arm up early. This has to quite possibly be one of the worst changes I've seen on the server, really, no offense to the Devs that thought it was a decent idea.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

This really makes no sense. They're SUPPOSED to arm up during boarding or code red. What kind of military vessel would NOT allow it's civillian staff to defend themselves? Especially against freaking aliens the size of trucks and small houses. It's not a good step in the right direction, at all. Not one bit. Now marines will be forced to have EVEN LESS people fighting to defend the Sulaco solely due to those few that arm up early. This has to quite possibly be one of the worst changes I've seen on the server, really, no offense to the Devs that thought it was a decent idea.

Arming up as a civilian is a privilege, not a right. There's a difference. You are allowed a pistol if you can obtain one from the marines, but not issued one. This very well might change if we create a civilian armory, but that's how it is for now.

Most military vessels would actually evacuate civilian crew during times of crisis. And they certainly wouldn't give them free access to the armory.

[forwardslashN]

This really makes no sense. They're SUPPOSED to arm up during boarding or code red. What kind of military vessel would NOT allow it's civillian staff to defend themselves? Especially against freaking aliens the size of trucks and small houses. It's not a good step in the right direction, at all. Not one bit. Now marines will be forced to have EVEN LESS people fighting to defend the Sulaco solely due to those few that arm up early. This has to quite possibly be one of the worst changes I've seen on the server, really, no offense to the Devs that thought it was a decent idea.

MTs and the RO are not civilian staff. They are marines with at least basic combat training. Only the medical staff/researcher and the liaison are considered civvies. My opinion is that all non-civilian personnel should have access to the armory; civvies and survivors should not.

[Dyne]

Arming up as a civilian is a privilege, not a right. There's a difference. You are allowed a pistol if you can obtain one from the marines, but not issued one. This very well might change if we create a civilian armory, but that's how it is for now.

Most military vessels would actually evacuate civilian crew during times of crisis. And they certainly wouldn't give them free access to the armory.

A. RO is not a civilian. CT is not a civilian. wiki/Rank
B. Cargo mainly resupplies basic stuff (ammo, flares, helmets) using marine vendors.
C. Marines are to find their helmets/armor in the squad prep area. If there are no mags- take rifles, clear them of mags, improvise.

Output: for the wellbeing of the few late joining marines the devs, without any clear consultation, have crippled Cargo in the most basic function.
Possible solution:
1. Simple. Return cargo full access to marine vendors.
2. Complicated. Add marine vendors to cargo area and/or give cargo more points/cheaper prices on essentials.

[Ms.Degrasse]

This was actually the WORSE thing you could do in this game!

1 - Engineers ARE military officers! (Or why the heck they have ENGINEERING BERETS in their quarters)?
2 - Chief medical OFFICER. The name says it all! (It's another officer, not a civillian.)
3 - We have a requisition OFFICER. (He's not a civillian.)

The only civillian on Sulaco, the corporate liaison, have a gun permit by default.
And survivors? Aren't actually that much restricted.
(They can bring their weapons aboard. There's no rule ingame for removing their equipment when rescued.)

What you done here, is more or less the same drastic debuff as removing the hability of dealing damage from all low tier aliens unless "they sharpen their claws in a stone carefully placed near the landing zones".
(After all, now the only way those guys can grab weapons is by going to the firing range, located at the most dangerous place when Sulaco is being boarded.)

[Minijar]

Cmo is a civilian read the wiki as are maint techies I believe. If this is such a big issue I'll add a marine vendor to cargo.

[Ms.Degrasse]

Minijar, for regarding, CMO can arm himself when Sulaco is boarded as can any other medic onboard being ither a civillian or a military officer.

However I actually only said this because of the word usage.

Mind that an officer is someone holding authority within an organization. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer)

That said, a person is this position is always formally part of the organization itself.

Real life Chief Medical Officers, when said organization is the government, are government oficials.
-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Medical_Officer

And when the organization in question is military?
It's safe to assume someone under a officer label hold a military rank too.

[Dyne]

Cmo is a civilian read the wiki as are maint techies I believe. If this is such a big issue I'll add a marine vendor to cargo.

Maintenance Technician - Technical Sergeant. wiki/Rank
It is a big issue, because the change is unwarranted and was done under false justification.
Just revert back and save everyone the cringe of Cargo getting armory access.

[Ms.Degrasse]

I will add some facts about what this door actually does to gameplay.
Some documented situations I presenced myself or got involved in while playing in distinct roles.

1 - ERT (from that ragtag equipped mercenary team that comes wthout IDs), got stuck in the prep while re-arming after combat with the aliens. - Unhappily I only have the radio sent about this.



This thing also likely to happen to survivors or any other character without access, during an alien's incursion on Sulaco.
Usually when most of the crew is dead, killed by aliens.

2 - CT stuck in armoury, while arming himself during an alien invasion. I had to hack the door, but this action impeded the "fresh from cryo" marine above my char to get into the prep (doors can't be opened when they are being hacked) and this was more than enough time for an alien to slay him. Luckily other characters came, and chased the alien away.



It's the exact situation as above, but getting aggravated when an MT or eng tries to fix it.

3 - Another situation where this time the RO was who got stuck. No one came to liberate him, and again being an MT I had to go there. But this time the door got bugged. (Hacking didn't worked.)
So a speciallist that came a long time after had to blow up the door with C4.



Yes... Sometimes doors stops responding (it's a BUG caused usually the LAG). This only makes the things worse!

4 - As a CMO, I escorted the medbay personnel for them to get armed, for protecting themselves during an alien's invasion. The door kept us out of the armoury. Until the liaison and an MT came, the MT used A DEAD GUY'S ID to open the armoury, and the liaison had to stand in the door to keep it open.



Not only the entire medbay was too exposed in this situation.
(Luckily, nothing bad happened to them. But imagine the impact it would cause if some aliens came here at this moment.)
But actually the armoury door prompted a player to do something that isn't exactly endorsed by the server rules and falls into a grey area.

Similar situations will repeat themselves to the exaustion.
Countless times I witnessed people getting stuck here for some reason.

As by the evidences, this door acts exactly as AN ANTAGONISTIC OBJECT placed on the server, that goes against the goals of the Sulaco crew.

But it's for WHAT?

"Doctors , MTs, Liaison and the like getting guns at round start."
-> A HARMLESS thing, that isn't even actually something tipically used for griefing. (Griefers in those specific roles tend to either use chloral, blow up the supermatter or headshot people with the sawn-off shotgun.)

"Latejoining marines not being able to get rifles or rifle ammo."
-> Come on... You get really late on a party and expect to get the best food and drinks?
Why they don't simply get a shotgun, submachinegun or something else?
Or why don't you add more rifles and ammo to the vendors?
Or even why don't you add an additional vendor to the squad preps, that only marines can access, with rifles and ammo in it?
Or different vendors? Some with primary weapons and itens only for marines, other with secondary weapons and even some emergency related stuff for the added immersion?
Or why don't you (insert here a better solution than this ANTAGONISTIC door)?

[KingKire]

Move thread to LOCKED and RESOLVED?
Cargo has access to the marine armory for some time now. so this thread is null/

[forwardslashN]

Resolved.