Change weed planting from road/paths -> jungle

[Sikillgard]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Switch weed mechanics, plantable on grass tiles, NOT on roads. It makes sense thematically and, allowing the meta to grow, theoretically improve marine logistics. Ideally done with map changes.


Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

So a previous suggestion asked for weed on jungle tiles, seeing how nonsensical it was for a highly invasive and adaptive species to be restricted on pre-determined paths. This suggestion was, more or less, controversial. But I think the thread was on the right path. Xenoes aren't suppose to be the kind to base their invasion on linear, straight pathing. Gameplay-wise, an invasion force of T3s/T2s would find it hard disinclining to flank and surround marines in a fairly even fight, and ironically BE flanked by marines (should they organize such maneuver). Weeds on grass as opposed to roads means that xenoes could surround marines more often, ambush them, and operate independently, far away from the hive.

The onus is on the drone caste to accomplish this. They have limited time to weed everything and build the hive, and once the marines land, it'll be risky to reweed isolated places. Hivelords usually don't appear until the marines land or evolve a little late for comfort. Trying to weed near and nearer to the marines becomes a risky proposition, so the likelihood of weeding every tile is contentious for those wary of xeno advantage.

On paper, it sounds like this is a unfair buff for xenoes, giving them more available territory for speed+heals. But consider this: Territory control is important, but marines don't need to expand across the entire map, from sand temple to robotics dome, nook and crannies all. They aim to attack and control important points of interest like hydro and medical dome, to construct and maintain a safe logistical pathing back to shuttle landing zones, and to eventually invade the hive. The roads connecting these POI provides all the territory control they need to push, consolidate, and win. No weed on roads, with weeds surround them, means engineers could/or feel inclined to build along them and create fortifications along them, protecting new arrivals or travelling suppliers.
Overall, I think this change would be a great boon for logistics, giving the sense of organization marines need.

Sketchy, but roads could also act a positive reinforcement for newer and less cooperative-inclined players. They can become easily recognizable "safe lanes" where there's a high chance of meeting other marines/squadmates. If weeds are everywhere except the road, Disorganized or spread-out marines would gravitate to them, and if reinforced with fortifications (an idea: auto-turret checkpoints), be somewhat safe until they get back to gathering points.

Methinks this opens up new ways for xenoes to engage marines. But I believe that marines would develop tactics and meta that counters this new development, creating more interesting engagements and variety.



Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Presumably, a change in tiles. Notably, the tile for roads are the same as the dirt in barrens and caves. Perhaps an entirely new tile for roads would do.
Imo best done in conjunction with map tweaks, ones that takes advantage of this idea. The current rendition of the colony might not work well with this, but I'm not sure.
Maybe buff roads with something that benefits marines - say, something similar to speed+ on weeds for xenoes. Possibly allow wiring.


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

0 experience on this department.
A simple switch in variables maybe? Change entire tiles with similarly sprited ones?

[username123]

Too much of a buff for xenos, marines will have no interest in leave building leaving the same problem of the last thread: marines will have no interest in leaving the fob because they can't engage xenos. -1

[ParadoxSpace]

I'm quite okay with this. If the marines aren't dumb, they'd still engage xenos. It's not that hard, my guy.

[MrJJJ]

What is with you people? stop with trying to buff yourself more with weeds, you guys have enough, it slows us down, gives you health boost, etc. you be suprised how big of a advantage this gives to aliens.

-1

[Egorkor]

since the aliens'll heal anywhere now, marines will indeed stay in the FOB because of the hit and run tactics aliens are gonna use. like, cram it down the marines' throats, because whenever they'd get hit they'll be able to regen almost instantly, behind any cover, and no marine will dare to chase them because of the slowdown.
neutral, but leaning a lot toward -1.

[Wickedtemp]

+1
Marines talking about how impossible the game would become are underestimating just how easily marines can wipe out the hive if they just coordinate between each other.

[MrJJJ]

+1
Marines talking about how impossible the game would become are underestimating just how easily marines can wipe out the hive if they just coordinate between each other.

Because we can do it only when its in the caves, when we still have our limited weed destroyers, and the caves themself are slow, and its not always a guarantee, not even a 50/50 that wipe the hive out, if aliens had advantage in the open grounds as well, we would use a shit tons of limited supplies to get rid of massive amounts of weeds, and by the time we get to the cave, we will barely have any left

[Mitchs98]

-1. As I stated on the other thread, this simply will not work. This will make it nigh impossible for marines to win unless VERY significant buffs are made in terms of resin and weed removal. Why would the marines try to attack if they're greeted by a forest of weeds and tons of resin structures blocking their path, only to have a few xenos rush them while they're trying to cut up all of the resin and weeds JUST TO CROSS THE RIVER.

Unless extremely signifcant buffs are made, as said, this simply doesn't seem doable to me in the slightest.

[Wickedtemp]

Because we can do it only when its in the caves, when we still have our limited weed destroyers, and the caves themself are slow, and its not always a guarantee, not even a 50/50 that wipe the hive out, if aliens had advantage in the open grounds as well, we would use a shit tons of limited supplies to get rid of massive amounts of weeds, and by the time we get to the cave, we will barely have any left

I really doubt anything will change much. Marines already turtle often. They make pre-mature retreats while they still have PLENTY of healthy marines, and then they sit on the Sulaco for the aliens to come up so they shoot half of them and send the shuttle back while the fight's going on, thus getting rid of a few more aliens that way as well. I don't play much anymore, but I personally haven't been in a round where the Aliens won in like... at least a month and a half. So SOMETHING needs to change here.

[MrJJJ]

I really doubt anything will change much. Marines already turtle often. They make pre-mature retreats while they still have PLENTY of healthy marines, and then they sit on the Sulaco for the aliens to come up so they shoot half of them and send the shuttle back while the fight's going on, thus getting rid of a few more aliens that way as well. I don't play much anymore, but I personally haven't been in a round where the Aliens won in like... at least a month and a half. So SOMETHING needs to change here.

Aliens win quite a bit when i am on, But if this gets implemented, as Mitch said, this will cause even more Turtling, i know we need to get the action back in somehow, but buffing the aliens even more is not the way

[Wickedtemp]

But if this gets implemented, as Mitch said, this will cause even more Turtling, i know we need to get the action back in somehow, but buffing the aliens even more is not the way

They turtle anyways. I've had rounds where the marines pretty much don't even attack, they just sit at the FOB while being harassed by a few hunters before packing up and leaving. If the marines aren't manning up and actually doing something, it's probably worth ahelping, an admin will either tell whoever is in charge of the marines at the time to give the firm order to get their shit into high gear, or they'll make an announcement from Central, something among the lines of "We're hearing that you guys encountered hostiles and aren't engaging? Well, what are you waiting for, are you mice or are you MEN?!"

It'll get handled.

[MrJJJ]

They turtle anyways. I've had rounds where the marines pretty much don't even attack, they just sit at the FOB while being harassed by a few hunters before packing up and leaving. If the marines aren't manning up and actually doing something, it's probably worth ahelping, an admin will either tell whoever is in charge of the marines at the time to give the firm order to get their shit into high gear, or they'll make an announcement from Central, something among the lines of "We're hearing that you guys encountered hostiles and aren't engaging? Well, what are you waiting for, are you mice or are you MEN?!"

It'll get handled.

They been doing that for almost a year or more, doesn't seem like its being handled that much.

[Wickedtemp]

They been doing that for almost a year or more, doesn't seem like its being handled that much.

Well if it ever gets to a point where it severely hampers gameplay on a consistent basis, which is what people seem to think is what the outcome of this suggestion would be, then I'm sure that the Staff here would handle it.

[Sikillgard]

-1. As I stated on the other thread, this simply will not work. This will make it nigh impossible for marines to win unless VERY significant buffs are made in terms of resin and weed removal. Why would the marines try to attack if they're greeted by a forest of weeds and tons of resin structures blocking their path, only to have a few xenos rush them while they're trying to cut up all of the resin and weeds JUST TO CROSS THE RIVER.

Unless extremely signifcant buffs are made, as said, this simply doesn't seem doable to me in the slightest.

I don't know. Marines seem to do alright invading pass the river, through weeds and all. They never needed to clear everything, just a path maybe 3 or literally 1 tile wide. They often establish presence at the table-fort too, despite its weedable surroundings. I don't see any complaints about weeds between table fort and the colony, nor do I see resin blockages preventing passage to the table fort.

This fear about resin defense everywhere is frankly a little strange to me. There's no guarantee that structures would be made everywhere and blocking everything - the last is mitigated by what I'm proposing as unweedable roads. You've also seen resin defenses at the north river bank - it happens, but not often. Fortifications being built far forward is a sure sign that sooner or later, that's the "hive" you're invading, where your infected marines are deposited. Penetrating the layers of defenses afterwards is a matter of keeping organized, since a good # of aliums seem to be inclined to die defending the first layers of defense rather than retreat.

[forwardslashN]

Neutral?
I dunno, I'm not sure I see the purpose of this. You can already do a lot with the domes/paths, and it makes sense to me based on the lore.

[Sikillgard]

Neutral?
I dunno, I'm not sure I see the purpose of this. You can already do a lot with the domes/paths, and it makes sense to me based on the lore.

If you think weeds are lore-accurate as they are, fill me in. As someone who isn't into Aliens lore much, I just made this idea out of the strangeness that human-made roads benefit aliens more than marines.

I also think that this is best tested first, as long as it's as easy as changing a variable, that is. And if ultimately rejected, be considered when making new maps.

[Egorkor]

+1
Marines talking about how impossible the game would become are underestimating just how easily marines can wipe out the hive if they just coordinate between each other.

then go and try to do that, and we'll see just how easily you can coordinate especially as the summer is closing in. and if the marines will coordinate perfectly every round then there's gonna be the shitstorm of epic proportions in suggestions coming from the alien regulars.
and what's with aliens not winning in a month and a half? completely not true, and lemme ask you - how much have you played recently. because I have not seen neither you, nor paradox playing (he's been getting on for the past week though) yet you two keep posting in suggestions without seeing what's going on in game.

[Ms.Degrasse]

+1, with some details.

Make weed possible to be planted on grass. (It's actually weird they can't at least plant the bulbs here.)
But reduce greatly the growing radius, as this is an inadequated surface.
(Can even show, ingame, messages about the bulb shrinking and getting less efective due to some related lore-wise factors.)

[forwardslashN]

They're honestly less roads and more like paths. I think in the lore the alien resin melds and adapts to non organic material, like dirt or metal or whatnot, but it crowds out the grass/trees. In one story, when a spaceship crashes in a jungle world, the xenomorphs use it as a hive instead of the dense jungle around the ship.

[ParadoxSpace]

Yeah but weeds also work with soil pretty well.

[Lucius Jones]

+1 makes sense, have the roads paved and make them a speed increase?

[Rabidgam3r]

+1 for testing it for a few rounds and seeing how marines react to it, -1 to just blindly implementing this without any changes or testing. This could just make marines turtle even harder and make xenos build giant walls around everything.

[Azmodan412]

+1 for testing it for a few rounds and seeing how marines react to it, -1 to just blindly implementing this without any changes or testing. This could just make marines turtle even harder and make xenos build giant walls around everything.

Oh, you mean something that Urist McMarine can shoot through with a single clip? Or something some pants-on-head retarded Specialist wastes a SADAR on?

[Rabidgam3r]

Oh, you mean something that Urist McMarine can shoot through with a single clip? Or something some pants-on-head retarded Specialist wastes a SADAR on?

It's easy as hell to get through walls, but I think marines would get discouraged by 80% of the colony being weeds, walls and nests. Hell, I can't say for certain what exactly it'll do to the overall game. Hence why I wanna see it tested.

[Mitchs98]

I'd rather it not even be considered. Every single scenario in my mind is aliens weeding and resining the entire colony(at-least the viable areas) to shit, which is something that shouldn't happen.