Remove AP M41A ammo

[blute]

>implying you can actually get the time to court marshal a person in a haze of bullets for friendly firing you

lol it actually is your job to balance the game, AP rounds suck ass, marines get killed by friendly fire so much more now

[Abbysynth]

Again, you're blaming friendly fire on AP rounds, when in reality it's players shooting at you. Make them stop doing that.

[Whistle]

Ya know I got shot between the eyes by standard rounds and my character literally didn't blink, you can't say there's no difference to the way they effect the game.

Your opinion is sadly constantly, guns don't kill people, people do.
Ap rounds don't pierce armour, the marines shooting at their armour does.

partially true, people are idiots, this is hopefully going to be addressed, but in the mean time surely steps should be taken to limit that so that others who aren't idiots do not suffer at their hands?
Is this not agreeable?
People enjoying the game?

But as I was taught, it's better to have the bullets removed from the gun than try to protect against them.

+1 to giving Ap rounds to Squad leads rather than RO's so that their points aren't dumped into AP rounds and it can be squad based to improve cohesion.

[Jeser]

Again, you're blaming friendly fire on AP rounds, when in reality it's players shooting at you. Make them stop doing that.

How? Open fire first and kill all chucklefucks before some of them kill you? How you can prevent rookies and "lol, shooot" people from shooting in all directions? They DON'T visit forum, they DON'T read wiki, they come, start shooting everywhere, get hugged and with thoughts "that was a good shoot out" disconnect. And in between they can kill with FF from 1 to 3-4 marines in half an hour. And they in 80% of time don't even care about this.

[zskninoh]

How? Open fire first and kill all chucklefucks before some of them kill you? How you can prevent rookies and "lol, shooot" people from shooting in all directions? They DON'T visit forum, they DON'T read wiki, they come, start shooting everywhere, get hugged and with thoughts "that was a good shoot out" disconnect. And in between they can kill with FF from 1 to 3-4 marines in half an hour. And they in 80% of time don't even care about this.

Friendly fire is very realistic and immersive. If it was removed CM would essentially be, as Abby stated a "point and click to kill xenos" game. While it is true some players do not heed their surroundings and commit acts of friendly fire, you have the opportunity to be healed by a medic/docs, and/or cloned. You are acting like friendly fire is a new thing.

Guns do not kill people, the person pulling the trigger does.

[Whistle]

Friendly fire is very realistic and immersive. If it was removed CM would essentially be, as Abby stated a "point and click to kill xenos" game. While it is true some players do not heed their surroundings and commit acts of friendly fire, you have the opportunity to be healed by a medic/docs, and/or cloned. You are acting like friendly fire is a new thing.

Guns do not kill people, the person pulling the trigger does.

some major points need to be made.

"You're blaming friendly fire on AP rounds, when in reality it's players shooting at you."

1. Noone is blaming FF on AP rounds, you are misdirecting the focus that AP rounds make it EASIER to kill friendlies by a degree that is laughable.
2. Players are shooting friendlies. Yes. This is happening and I am trying to push for some means to reduce FF. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=6956
Along with the increase in the mentor pop, we may see some work done on this.

"Friendly fire is very realistic and immersive."
3. Anyone advocating the removal of friendly fire completely has a very poor idea of what the game is and what it's goals are.
This is a bad idea and I don't believe anyone disagrees.

"While it is true some players do not heed their surroundings and commit acts of friendly fire, you have the opportunity to be healed by a medic/docs, and/or cloned. You are acting like friendly fire is a new thing."
4. Everyone would agree it's a small amount of people, even if it at times the entire marine corp has their guns aimed at your back.
5. The difference between shattered ribs, punctured lung, passing out, entering crit and the attention of a number of marines to get you to safety (MAYBE) while under heavy xeno attack and between orange state relies almost solely on whether or not you were hit by an AP round.

"kill with FF from 1 to 3-4 marines in half an hour."
6. Limiting AP rounds to Squad lead hand outs will not ensure, but would reduce the amount of players that lose gameplay by being crit by a moron and dragged back (Losing another marine from a fight, maybe two if they're guarded.)
And if by some miracle they make it to the Sulaco for surgery which they will almost certainly need, they will still battling death or completely passed out for that time. (Where's the fun?)
And not because of an ALIENS VS MARINES FIGHT, not because they did something interesting, but because some poor sap who doesn't give a shit, shot an AP round through his armour plate or into his mouth and put a friendly down before running off and killing themselves too.

"have the opportunity to be healed by a medic/docs,"
7. Not everyone can make, alot are incapped relying on the attention of other marines to reach the surgery table and even one man down in a squad is a terrible thing.
And if every medic is too busy fixing up bullet holes so that they can maybe reach a surgery table, who's helping the push on the hive? Where's the squad medic?
Doing their job because someone was a detriment to the team removing more than just one person from a fight.


"and/or cloned."
8. Due to be removed, so even more reason to reduce FF.



"point and click to kill xenos" game."

9.If the xenos are soo terrible that they need to rely on the FF system to ever win, then there are clearly issues that need to be addressed.

If point 9 is not what you meant by this, please don't respond to it, we have no need for more redirection from the real issue of AP rounds.

please no more, "GIT GUD MARINES." Until you can offer a valid suggestion that will help deal with it.

[Abbysynth]

Sorry, but most of those points are just plain wrong. AP is not the issue because AP has next to no effect on damage against marines. It has more effect against the different xeno armor types.

The issue is marines not paying attention to where they're shooting or where their friendlies are. Guns are dangerous. Bullets are dangerous.

Now, if for some bizarre reason someone actually asked my opinion on the matter, I would say that pain crit is the problem, because one bullet does something like 90 pain damage currently. That's not me, I don't touch medical, Infernus does, but hey. What do I know, right? It's all AP rounds. Let's remove em!

[Dyne]

Sorry, but most of those points are just plain wrong. AP is not the issue because AP has next to no effect on damage against marines. It has more effect against the different xeno armor types.

The issue is marines not paying attention to where they're shooting or where their friendlies are. Guns are dangerous. Bullets are dangerous.

Now, if for some bizarre reason someone actually asked my opinion on the matter, I would say that pain crit is the problem, because one bullet does something like 90 pain damage currently. That's not me, I don't touch medical, Infernus does, but hey. What do I know, right? It's all AP rounds. Let's remove em!

Abby, I'm on your side, if we take sides.
Still, currently an AP round makes just enough damadge to break the bone, which causes pain, IB, and all fun stuff.
If you want a solution- up marine armor a bit to lessen it.

[AVagrant]

Snip

Make the point that "AP ammo has no effect" first then, instead of explaining the one thing everyone already knows about FF.

I honestly think it should be moved to the RO line. Maybe an allotment of 3mags, etc.

+1

[1138]

FF happens all the time, it's harmless...

When pulse rifles and SMGs are loaded with the FMJ ammunition that is easily stopped by polymer, that is.

AP does a shitton of damage to human players. Because it's ballistic, projectiles embed, cause internal bleeding, break bones, may also be the main proponent of cancer, and so on. They're extremely rough in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure that Navy SEALs or any other real-life marine equivalent would almost never light up a friendly but that's due to rigorous training and conditioning.

US Colonial Marines are not as disciplined, especially when facing off against a terrifying enemy such as the xenomorph. AP rounds as it stands, is the "kill everything" ammunition type. It ruins the day of a xeno and it'll ruin the day of a marine. It shouldn't be so widely available at the start of the round. Cargo should be able to order it and human-antagonists should have AP to stand a chance against marines. The staunch majority of players are marines. They usually outnumber the xeno force 5:1 or 6:1. They don't need any more superior firepower as it stands until the meta shifts otherwise.

Move AP bullets to cargo for ordering. Gives overwatch more reason to drop ammo.

[Abbysynth]

The funny thing is, AP rounds are not even close to the "kill everything" ammo type. It does LESS damage to unarmored targets like the majority of T3s. It's in the basic vendors because a) ordinary marines DO get armor piercing rounds, and b) It's up to the players to decide how to best use them efficiently, not us, and c) Learning proper gun control techniques is a part of warfare. Spray indiscriminately and get shit on for friendly fire. Players are way too used to having everything handed to them.

If AP rounds did not exist, neither the damage they cause nor the friendly fire rate would change in any noticeable way.

[Whistle]

Learning proper gun control techniques is a part of warfare. Spray indiscriminately and get shit on for friendly fire. Players are way too used to having everything handed to them.

If AP rounds did not exist, neither the damage they cause nor the friendly fire rate would change in any noticeable way.

1st, training is usually given to organized military full stop forever.

2nd, People can clearly tell when they are hit by AP or regular rounds, with this fact, players can see the damn difference between them and yet there is constant negativity towards their use.
I can't help but see a large number of players consistently making these complaints.


and really?
3rd.
What the ever loving shit is helpful with "Players are way too used to having everything handed to them."

your negativity is irksome, please stay focused and keep your ire to yourself, "Developer."

[TotalAnarchy]

Friendly fire will always happen on CM, but for some reason its a roll of the dice, you either have ever bone broken, or nothing happens to you. But I have seen more friendly fire with AP rounds. Abby you are acting like a child with the way you respond to a lot of things. The sarcasm doesn't help your case when talking to people it only pisses everyone off more.
If a majority of player base is having an issues with them, why not get the development staff teamed up and figure out the issue? Instead of taking pot shots at the player base.

I am +1 the removal of AP rounds. Because there clearly is an issue with them.

[MrJJJ]

The funny thing is, AP rounds are not even close to the "kill everything" ammo type. It does LESS damage to unarmored targets like the majority of T3s.

Funny, but that is wrong, its actually half of T3 are armored, ravager, praetorian and crusher are armored, boiler, carrier and hivelord, are not, if you count Queen as T3, its 4 armored, 3 unarmored, and they are kind of "kill everything" even if you wear no armor, it still does significant damage to fuck your day up, and it sure as hell can harm T1-T2, but its wastefull to use AP rounds on them, but that does not mean said rounds can kill these xenos almost as fast as normal rounds, heh.

[Edgelord]

Community: "Abby this addition is hurting more than it is helping"

Abby: "Stop being a baby."

I really appreciate the work you do for CM but can you at least try empathize with the people who get taken out of the game completely due to the incompetence of someone else? I suppose the obvious counter is "you shouldn't have been standing there" but there have been situations where a xeno has sprinted past me and players have riddled me dead in the panic. I understand the importance of friendly fire but when you have situations where one or two bullets can remove you from the game that is bullshit. That's not fun, that's not even ethical balancing. I can't control the actions of other players, nor do I want to. They should be limited or removed.

[MrJJJ]

I understand the importance of friendly fire but when you have situations where one or two bullets can remove you from the game that is bullshit. That's not fun, that's not even ethical balancing. I can't control the actions of other players, nor do I want to. They should be limited or removed.

THIS!

A simple bullet, if you get unlucky, you will be fucked for at least 10 minutes, maybe even get captured because of it, and humans are a unpredictable creatures, we have no idea what's in the mind of our fellow player, neither what he is thinking, what is he doing in his house/appartment/whatever, what is happening on his screen, etc, we CAN'T prevent FF, we CAN'T tell everyone on the server to stop doing it and it will cease, because intentional or not, someone WILL get FFed, either due to panic, either due to someone moving in, or various reasons, and we CAN'T tell players to get good, if we simply say it to them, nothing will happen, they don't know HOW to get good, they don't KNOW what they doing wrong, and they will simply one day get bored/angry with the server and leave it, and its important players know what they doing, at least in basics, especially with such a large community we have and with just how much important teamwork is.