Buff the M37A2 Pump Shotgun

[Edgelord]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Improve the firing speed and/or damage of the M37A2

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Make the shotgun good at what it's supposed to be good at.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Shotguns are meant to be fantastic short ranged weaponry, but with lots of drawbacks. The CM shotgun is slow firing, has shit range, kicks like a mule, has a slow reload speed, and to make up for all of these downsides... it has nothing. The damage model leaves a bit to be desired, so I'd argue that a buff is in order. The gun shouldn't be as versatile as the M41A, but it should be good at what it is meant for.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Perhaps increase the damage, or the fire rate, or the reload speed.

[Siserith Vassada]

shotgun should be able to kill stuff, but having it be so powerfully it instantly kills/crits a low cast xeno could be very annoying and cheesy from their view, but if it applied a sort of bleed effect that would temporarily damage them over time that might make it actually usable in killing effect instead of it's only use being scaring off runners

[Fritigern]

+1

Shotguns are incredibly weak, I honestly don't understand how they're allowed to continue in their current iteration, they're basically a noob trap. Remove the underslung option for the pump shotty (makes no sense anyways) and give it an increased firing speed at the VERY least.

[MauroVega]

Neutral
While i agree they are not fit to be a primary they are good in damage,NOW the fire-rate is another thing,for the damage you might as well take the .44 and add a quick-fire and a Rec-compensator

But it can do up to 90 brute,that can nearly crit a runner,its "ok"

[Dyne]

+1. Currently shotgun is useless compared to SMG or rifle.

[Fritigern]

Neutral
While i agree they are not fit to be a primary they are good in damage,NOW the fire-rate is another thing,for the damage you might as well take the .44 and add a quick-fire and a Rec-compensator

But it can do up to 90 brute,that can nearly crit a runner,its "ok"

I mean how much damage do they actually do? Without hard numbers it's hard to accurately gauge a weapons effectiveness. At the very least I'd really like someone to perform a time to kill test between a lot of the weapons; firing on Xeno's from certain ranges to see the outcome. I suspect the shotgun would come in dead last, no matter the range.

[MauroVega]

90 Point blank,with charger can crit a runner at 1 tile range,no clue how much damage it - per tile

[forwardslashN]

I thought the shotgun was terrible before the gun update, but I haven't used it since. Is it any different than before?

[Rob606]

I agree that the shotgun needs a fix. Close range it should be devastating. +1

[qDan]

+1 especially now, when 1) captured marine = dead marine, 2) underbarrel shotty totally same. I dont think that one shotting t1 aliens on close range is something bad, especially if they were stupid enough to rush blidnly on boomstick. More over if jumped runner can 'oneshot' you with 2 huggers why you cant have same possibility? Still shotguns should be prolly balanced so they gonna be useful only on short and mid range with damage reduction for longer distances.

[Boltersam]

+1 especially now, when 1) More over if jumped runner can 'oneshot' you with 2 huggers.

It's not a oneshot, though. It doesn't instakill you. You can be saved. The runner has to drag you away.

I'd like a buff to the pump shotgun, but not to the point where they instakill T1s. +1, so that people actually have reason to use anything but the rifle.

[qDan]

It's not a oneshot, though. It doesn't instakill you. You can be saved. The runner has to drag you away.

I'd like a buff to the pump shotgun, but not to the point where they instakill T1s. +1, so that people actually have reason to use anything but the rifle.

Runner may eat you and rush into hole just in few seconds and with aluem cuffs captured = dead now. Also shotguns not instakilling as well, you can be drugged on weeds while marines need majority, clear line of sight and no wounded\dead\hugged nearby to finish of crit'd xeno.

[Boltersam]

Runner may eat you and rush into hole just in few seconds and with aluem cuffs captured = dead now. Also shotguns not instakilling as well, you can be drugged on weeds while marines need majority, clear line of sight and no wounded\dead\hugged nearby to finish of crit'd xeno.

At what point could a runner eat you before you were able to just move away to break the grip or shoot it several times? Alien cuffs can only be applied when nested. I don't know, shoot the runner. Your friends will shoot it when it is stunned from the pounce or chasing you around trying to click you then switch hands and click you again to put on huggers, your friends will be shooting it. Runners die in four rifle shots. Your friends will deal with it easily if it's unskilled, and keep in mind only a Crusher could go in and drag a critted marine out of the way of all of the marines shooting the body and SURVIVE. The runner cannot get you to a hole in seconds, it cannot EAT you in seconds unless you're being an idiot and standing still, and if it pounces to hug you, it's STUNNED. Your team-mates will take care of it! And you SHOULD have team-mates! You also have a VERY inflated opinion of xenos in critical condition. You have maybe six marines on each side of the Nexus usually, so if only ONE person fires, it will crit a Sentinel or Runner, and then the rest get a free kill.

Hell, even a LONE marine with a shotgun would be able to go on a killing spree with the shotgun easily if it's buffed to how much you wish it to, it would only take TWO shots to kill a T1, and probably only a little bit more to kill a T2 or T3! Nothing should be, or is, that powerful.

[Perfectian]

What about shooting five bullets instead of one, but they spread up in different directions in range

[forwardslashN]

I'm working on shotguns right now, for a different reason. If you have specific feedback, now's the time.

[Sarah_U.]

Pellets spread & Buckshot linear?
Pellets better against less armored xenos and buckshot better against armored?

[Fritigern]

Pellets spread & Buckshot linear?
Pellets better against less armored xenos and buckshot better against armored?

It would be the reverse for buckshot and slugs. The small pellets lack the energy of the slug and therefore are only really good at hurting fleshy things. If the damage for each ammo type was changed so that buckshot was better against hunters and lesser castes, and slugs against everything higher, that'd be cool. But I don't think that'd fix the problem with the M37A2 shotgun itself.

Basically it has to shoot faster or it's still going to be a noob trap no matter what other changes are made. I don't know what the exact delay is between pumping and firing, taking lag into account, but I would ideally say it needs to be cut by half, a quarter reduction at the least. I'd say the damage at range needs to be increased as well, but since damage seems to scale with range to an extreme degree with the shotgun, and not knowing the exact numbers for when damage falls off, it's hard to give an appropriate suggestion.

[enkas]

I've also noticed, that if you point-blank some xeno with buckshot, you are also getting hit by the buckshot spread.

Anyways, since I have a character who wield the shotty as her main weapon, I give this a biased +1

[Fritigern]

I've also noticed, that if you point-blank some xeno with buckshot, you are also getting hit by the buckshot spread.

Anyways, since I have a character who wield the shotty as her main weapon, I give this a biased +1

Yeah that buckshot mechanic isn't great. Maybe the buckshot should just continue to travel in a line and continue even if it hits something. Though maybe the math for calculating a projectile passing over multiple targets would be a programming/lag issue. Would certainly make buckshot more interesting, though, since you'd have to avoid going all Dick Cheney on a dude standing behind an alien.

[Tristan63]

M4A1 can down a young runner in less than 5 hits. Shotgun takes about five aswell

+1

[Iatots]

The IC reason for the pump action is to use rounds powerful enough to render an auto/semi-auto mechanism unreliable. The OOC reason is hollywood being full of smoothbore strokers that really need an audio cue for when shit gets real. Either give the shotgun a serious punch, or distribute the mk221 as standard gear.

Since everybody wants the former, upping the damage would be the simplest way to go about it. It would also be more lore-friendly since Hick's old heirloom didn't take much to gore an alien.

[Gentlemanly_headcrab]

+1 Shotguns are a favorite, even the pre-update version where I could load each shell individually, but it's a matter of. Do I wanna use something that sounds cool, looks cool, and feel cool to use at a cost of ACTUALLY being able to kill something effectively?

I like the idea of a buff to shotguns in one form or the other, maybe damage scales the closer the target the better the damage or something around that line, and yeah there's buckshot and slug, but when buckshot can only go 4 tiles before disappearing and slugs miss half the time and are almost M41A bullets generally, it gets a bit crappy.

[forwardslashN]

+1 Shotguns are a favorite, even the pre-update version where I could load each shell individually, but it's a matter of.

You'll be able to do this soon, sort of.

[KingKire]

Can we jack down the recoil on the shotgun? I know the shotgun is supposed to kick, but every time i fire it, i feel like my character has rubber bones from the amount screen shaking going on. We're not shooting elephant guns here, its just a 12 or 10 gauge shotgun or such. I would like to see where my shots land instead of this massive screen shake. Maybe have that amount of screen shake for unloading both barrels of double shotgun but if im holding the shotgun in two hands, even without the stock it should be a little less. Besides, were marines, molded of muscle and guts.

other thoughts:
+1 to fixing the bug where shooting someone pointblank can hit yourself and people around you. I managed to shoot myself and a buddy who was standing to the right of me when i hit a target pointblank. Its an issue of code, but theres gotta be someway of making sure that the 3x3 impact box will turn into a 3x2 box if shot at point blank range.
- Insert a middle mouse button click in Weapons UI textbox. I know there are scripts that can make the middle button click rack the shotgun, but having a toggle middle button switch on the UI weapon text box would be mighty appreciated.
- I love the shotgun for what it represents. My computer is a potato and it can make trying to hit moving targets hard at times, and i would like a weapon that had the option ( in the form of the buckshot) to have a horseshoes chance of hitting things if you got close to the impact point.
- Individual shell loading sounds okayish, but there would have to be some QoL upgrades for the time it takes to load each of those shells into the shotgun.

[Gentlemanly_headcrab]

You'll be able to do this soon, sort of.

I loved that, being able to top off my shotgun without having to get rid of an entire mag and sadly staring back at those three shells that could be used. I'm all for bringing that back along with the buff.