Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

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Surrealistik
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Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 27 May 2016, 13:52

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Add Gun Emplacements back to the game.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

Provides an interesting option in the Marine toolkit for point defense and offensive support.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
  • Reintroduce the pre-Alpha machine gun emplacement.
  • Facing angle can be changed with a wrench. Deployed and undeployed with a screwdriver just like the Sentry.
  • Deploys and undeploys more quickly than a Sentry, making it more suitable for dynamic/offensive use, and quickly securing the FoB.
  • Firing arc increased to 180 degrees like the Sentry.
  • Smartfire (no FF) so it's not a worse than useless hazard in comparison to a Sentry (lol and you thought AP rounds were bad).
  • Bullets have more armour penetration and damage vs the Sentry to compensate for lacking an AI component vis a vis Sentry; essentially it's a .50 cal.
  • Destructible. However, the gun shield provides cover and heavy damage resistance from sources in its firing arc/facing direction.
  • Less health than the Sentry; combined with the lack of an instant 360 mode, this makes it much more vulnerable to flanking attacks.
  • Welding repairs the emplacement.
  • Has a burst and single fire mode.
  • Can be constructed via 10 plassteel (builds a frame), a wrench (to clamp down the frame and prep the mount), .50 cal gun (goes on the mount; unusuable by itself like the autocannon), 10 metal (that provides additional plating) and welder to finish.
  • Can be deconstructed while undeployed via the following process: welder (strip armour/weaken frame, returning 10 metal) > wrench (separate gun) > wrench (dismantle frame, returning 10 plasteel).
  • At the round start, Squad Engineers can choose _either_ a sentry or an HMG emplacement.
  • Can be dragged at faster or full speed (it's on rollers).
  • HMG emplacement part set can be bought by Cargo under Weapons for 100 points.

Pros and Cons vs Sentry:

Pros:

+Projectiles deal more damage and are more penetrative (benefit).
+Faster drag speed (benefit)
+Gun shield acts as integrated cover and provides excellent protection from damage in its facing direction (benefit)
+Faster deploy/undeploy speed (minor benefit).
+Doesn't require a battery (very minor benefit).

Cons:

-No automation (massive detriment).
-No on the fly 360 mode, and thus more vulnerable to being flanked (detriment).
-More fragile/less health than sentry, and thus more vulnerable to being flanked, and being left unattended (detriment).


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Reimplement and tweak the old machine gun emplacement.
Last edited by Surrealistik on 15 Dec 2016, 15:32, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Biolock » 27 May 2016, 13:54

I like this idea, but it's already been shot down several times.
I'm stressing way too hard about what to put here, so I'm just gonna leave it blank.... or....

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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Sargeantmuffinman » 27 May 2016, 13:57

The points you make about the smartfire,I'd say no against,why?

Cause you're manually operating a machine gun.

But I'd like to say.

It's either the HMG or the sentry and you can't order the HMG through requsitions.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 27 May 2016, 13:59

Sargeantmuffinman wrote:The points you make about the smartfire,I'd say no against,why?

Cause you're manually operating a machine gun.

But I'd like to say.

It's either the HMG or the sentry and you can't order the HMG through requsitions.
I'm thinking it would be aim assisted like the Smartgun with similar technologies. This thing would be an FF _nightmare_ if it was capable of hitting marines given the penetration and damage; AP rounds would look like Tickletown by comparison.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by MauroVega » 27 May 2016, 15:16

so wait its a smart HMG,?eh that would really break the balance,are we talking abour our old MG or a manned sentry?
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 27 May 2016, 15:38

I'm talking about the old MG refurbished to be competitive vs the new Sentry, which means it functions in a capacity similar to a manned only sentry that doesn't use batteries.

Pros:

+Projectiles deal more damage and are more penetrative (benefit).
+Faster deploy/undeploy time (benefit)
+Gun shield acts as integrated cover and provides excellent protection from damage in its facing direction (benefit)
+Doesn't require a battery (very minor benefit).

Cons:

-No automation (massive detriment).
-No on the fly 360 mode (detriment).
-More fragile than sentry, and thus more vulnerable to being flanked (detriment).
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Dyne » 28 May 2016, 00:21

Even more fragile then a sentry?
Not seeing the point.

Also most of what you wish is also implemented in the sentry itself- you find a nice angle and switch it to manual mode.
(then watch as it doesnt do enough damadge, but thats another point.)
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 28 May 2016, 04:20

More fragile (less HP) than the sentry, yes. However, due to the gun shield, It's not unlike the Crusher in that it's highly resistant to damage from sources it's facing, and provides cover for the operator.

This plus the faster deploy/undeploy and higher damage/armour pen materially sets it apart from the sentry.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Boltersam » 28 May 2016, 04:32

I love these things to bits, but there shouldn't be a smartgun-like aim. If it fires as powerfully as you suggest, it should be balanced out by killing stupid allies that wander into your line of sight while firing at aliens.

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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 28 May 2016, 04:37

Boltersam wrote:I love these things to bits, but there shouldn't be a smartgun-like aim. If it fires as powerfully as you suggest, it should be balanced out by killing stupid allies that wander into your line of sight while firing at aliens.
It's balanced out by a greater weakness to flanking and manual operation only vis a vis the sentry.

Literally no one would use it if there was an FF risk of losing over half your health in an instant. AP rounds are already cancer, and are often more dangerous to marines than the aliens; this would be even worse with FF.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Boltersam » 28 May 2016, 04:41

Surrealistik wrote: It's balanced out by a greater weakness to flanking and manual operation only vis a vis the sentry.

Literally no one would use it if there was an FF risk of losing over half your health in an instant. AP rounds are already cancer, and are often more dangerous to marines than the aliens; this would be even worse with FF.
Nobody walks in front of firing machine guns in real life for a reason. People will learn to think properly, or get themselves killed. People would use them, it's just nobody would walk infront of one.

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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by MauroVega » 28 May 2016, 16:41

Surrealistik wrote: +Projectiles deal more damage and are more penetrative (benefit)
More damage than the sentry?oh god this will created a planet of salt
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Boltersam » 28 May 2016, 17:41

MauroVega wrote: More damage than the sentry?oh god this will created a planet of salt
Indeed. All T1s are critter in one burst from a sentry, even more powerrful shots...

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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 29 May 2016, 00:22

Allowing this to FF would indeed create a planet of salt. The sentry would be better hands down besides.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Gentlemanly_headcrab » 29 May 2016, 00:44

I made this thread already and got many +1's before it was shot down before just being an FF salt cannon on stilts. I'll neutral on it for now knowing it'll probably get shot down again.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by ClumsyAlcoholic » 29 May 2016, 03:57

+1 FF nightmare or not if you act dumb you die dumb

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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 29 May 2016, 22:39

Gentlemanly_headcrab wrote:I made this thread already and got many +1's before it was shot down before just being an FF salt cannon on stilts. I'll neutral on it for now knowing it'll probably get shot down again.
It's a good idea, but I definitely don't think it can be worthwhile if capable of FF, because it would create so much risk and the sentry would be hands down superior so often that the emplacement would end up occupying far too small a niche.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Butterrobber202 » 30 May 2016, 00:24

I'd be one happy camper if this happened, I remember the old MG Turrets and they were great. (Assuming the Normal Sentry Gun is removed with this )

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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 30 May 2016, 13:29

Would like Marines to be able to use both, rather than this acting as a replacement for the sentry which I love.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by MauroVega » 30 May 2016, 17:29

Butterrobber202 wrote:I'd be one happy camper if this happened, I remember the old MG Turrets and they were great. (Assuming the Normal Sentry Gun is removed with this )
The catch is engineers would get a token to either get a sentry or the Hmg
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Surrealistik » 03 Jun 2016, 00:44

MauroVega wrote: The catch is engineers would get a token to either get a sentry or the Hmg
I'd be alright with that; make this the Engineer equivalent of a Specialist weapon.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by TopHatPenguin » 22 Jul 2016, 10:04

Forever and always yes and Mauro's idea sounds great.

+1 I want to be able to shout get on the 50.cal to any marine.(I mean i'm not even sure it's a 50.cal but it sounds nice.)



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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Jeser » 22 Jul 2016, 11:22

Boltersam wrote:Nobody walks in front of firing machine guns in real life for a reason. People will learn to think properly, or get themselves killed. People would use them, it's just nobody would walk infront of one.
Sadly, this won't happen, considering my experience with HMG in preAlpha.

I don't give a damn about retards, though, so +1 without smartfire.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Bigchilly » 22 Jul 2016, 12:58

In pre alpha the mg was perfect for defending the tight 3 tile hallways, anyone smart didn't go in front of the MG. It's like when you have a SADAR and you tell everyone your gonna fire, and they all back off so you have a clear shot.

If you get shot down by a MG its your fault, +1 no smartgun bs.
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Re: Make Gun Emplacements Great Again

Post by Sargeantmuffinman » 22 Jul 2016, 13:42

I'll give it a +1, would be nice to have it again.
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