Reworking the "Two Handed" system for guns!

[ThatCrazyBridgeOfficer]

Summary:
Currently to fire a two handed weapon you are required to press "Z" to switch between two handed and one handed mode, this design choice is clunky, frustrating and uses up a perfectly good key for reloading, I've seen countless new players running around one handed with their pulse rules shouting "OH MU GUUUURD I CANT SHOOT" and then die, and then you have experienced players who just given up and said "Screw this, im taking a second Pulse Rifle" and now you have people taking more than one pulse rifle because reloading has become such a pain in the ass, I understand that it should be /hard/ but there are better ways to do this, watch me kill three birds with one throwing-knife, gentlemen.


Details and Implementation:
First: Take everything about the current two handed system and... Throw it straight out the airlock! We have better things to do than fiddle with such clunky mechanics!
Second: Take the standard "Two Handed Sprites" and make these the default sprites for whenever you pick up and hold any Two Handed weapons.
Third: The message "You require both hands to fire this weapon" pops up if you are holding another item in your off hand, you are able to hold your gun and another item but cannot fire your gun until you free up your other hand, all it takes now to go into combat is "Press Q, then X, then Leftclick x10"
Fourth: Remember that "Z" key we just freed up? I do! Congrats, you can now reload your weapon manually, pump your shotgun, change modes with non-reloading two handed weapons.


Bam! You're done, go pat yourself on the back for your excellent service to the server and the community.
Except you forgot to add reload times to /every single weapon/ so that those hardcore players who use macros don't complain about reloading being "Too easy" for "newbies" (<- Im joking, don't actually do that plz :c)


Benefits:
The "Two gun Meta" will never be a thing again. (Storing an extra Pulse Rifle or three in on your backpack Suitslot for when you need to reload)
People will no longer be frustrated by the reloading, holding and shooting mechanics of two handed guns, everything is now as smooth as a hot lady's ass on a warm beach.
Frees up another key "Z" for easy access to special abilities for guns, and shotgun pumping, and of course changing mags.
You will make me happy C: Experienced players will now actually enjoy playing the standard marine with the pulse rifle.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

You can't store rifles in your pack.

[ZeWaka]

You can't store rifles in your pack.

I think he means storing a gun in your pack slot? Not sure.

[ThatCrazyBridgeOfficer]

You can't store rifles in your pack.

Shit sorry, I ment on their suit slot :V

Basically they carry one and drop it to use their second pulse rifle that they stored on their suitslot instead of reloading.
(Which is EXACTLY why we keep running out of pulse rifles in the armory)

[Sargeantmuffinman]

That's pretty dumb if I say so myself as you only have 90 rounds in total.
The carrying of more than 3 rifles with no extra ammo.

[flagsteeler]

mite b cool. but you forgot one thing, this is gonna result in way more friendly fire across the board or people shooting things they didn't want to shoot since they're not gonna get a confirmation that they're ready to shoot, because they may forget that the gun is in their active hand and they go and click on something or whatever and shoot instead. what i mean is that without pressing a button and knowing that the next thing they're gonna do is shoot a gun, someone might forget that their gun doesn't have a toggle-able safety (leaving the gun one-handed, everyone will keep this in mind if they're using a one-handed gun) and let a shot ring out accidentally. with a careful player this is never going to happen except for a few rare occurrences where human error kicks in and a shot goes out. you've got a satisfactory system in mind but that's one problem i see and it's gotta be addressed, by either adding in a toggle safety verb that's gonna be forgotten about or keeping it as it is.

[ThatCrazyBridgeOfficer]

>this is gonna result in way more friendly fire >they're not gonna get a confirmation that they're ready to shoot, because they may forget that the gun is in their active hand.

Actually the game is already like this with SMGs and Pistols, we're literally changing the two handed weapons to function more like one handed but without the clunkyness and while still forcing people to use two hands.

And Yes, you /do/ get a confirmation, your active hand shows, just press X to swap between the two easily.
Or better yet, just store your gun on your suitslot until you need it, due to the lack of the one hand/two hand switching you can now draw your gun and fire it without the finicky extra button press.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

-1

Dumbing down the game isn't going to make it more fun. Doing this will effectively make the SMG and pistols near useless.

[ThatCrazyBridgeOfficer]

-1

Dumbing down the game isn't going to make it more fun. Doing this will effectively make the SMG and pistols near useless.

That is incorrect, the SMG and pistol are both capable of being used one handed, they both have their purposes as do the Pulse Rifle and every other two handed weapon.
And to clarify incase you are confused: Im not saying two handed weapons should become one handed, im saying that the current system for two handed weapons is clunky, so clunky in fact that people are required to make macros just to use said weapons.

Actually better yet, can you clarify on how the ideas posted above would "Dumb down the game, and make SMGs and pistols useless"
Would be helpful! Thanks!

[TopHatPenguin]

people are required to make macros just to use said weapons.

The only weapon which is two-handed that it's required to macro just for ease of use is the pump action shotgun, everything else is fine currently and from my perspective not clunky at all.

[Monoo]

-1

The current system is designed as easy to use, difficult to master. That's exactly the way the most reliable rifle in the game should handle, in my opinion.

Use your hotkeys.

[forwardslashN]

While this is technically possible and such, I thought a lot about how the current system handles, and it works well in context. While I would certainly like to free up the Z key for some other use, it's just not feasible given that melee weapons also use it for two handing. There are also technical problems, including updating the icon when the gun is no longer dual wielded. Or even running the icon update every time you try and fire it (which is resource intensive).

I am thinking of adding one more UI button that you can macro for any special action a weapon has, such as pumping a shotgun or toggling the safety on or off for the smartgun. So these functions wouldn't be all different verbs but something you can use from a single button. I can then add the safety toggle switch people requested for alt clicking. I can also make it so if you click a gun with an empty hand (while holding it in the other), you will unload the ammo in to your hand. Let's hear some more opinions on this.

[Egorkor]

was the reloading system updated in the two days I was away or something, or what? it takes more than 3 seconds to do or something?
because it if wasn't then I see absolutely no point in this suggestion. first, reloading is piss easy and takes little to no time to do, second, Z is only used when you use the hotkey mode and it's a perfect button for that so I'd rather not it, or any of the standard hotkey mode buttons be touched, and third, you can also use the page down button.
now, about the "experienced players taking two rifles because of how hard it's to reload". I don't think this is true because people take two rifles in case they lose the first one to an alien, I've literally never seen someone do it because he's unable to reload.

[Surrealistik]

+1. Makes all the sense in the world.

-1

Dumbing down the game isn't going to make it more fun. Doing this will effectively make the SMG and pistols near useless.

They already are. This isn't dumbing down the game so much as getting rid of tedium.

[ThatCrazyBridgeOfficer]

While this is technically possible and such, I thought a lot about how the current system handles, and it works well in context. While I would certainly like to free up the Z key for some other use, it's just not feasible given that melee weapons also use it for two handing. There are also technical problems, including updating the icon when the gun is no longer dual wielded. Or even running the icon update every time you try and fire it (which is resource intensive).

Actually the idea was that holding a two handed weapon would /always/ have you "shown" wielding it with two hands as default, (Meaning the server isn't stressed being with icon updates during battle) but you wouldn't be able to fire the weapon while holding another item.
(TLDR: This just makes our current two handed system more automatic via the actual removal of needing to switch between one handed and two handed, simply having so you cannot fire while holding a second item replicates this without the tediouscy and lag the old mechanic causes)

I am thinking of adding one more UI button that you can macro for any special action a weapon has, such as pumping a shotgun or toggling the safety on or off for the smartgun. So these functions wouldn't be all different verbs but something you can use from a single button. I can then add the safety toggle switch people requested for alt clicking. I can also make it so if you click a gun with an empty hand (while holding it in the other), you will unload the ammo in to your hand. Let's hear some more opinions on this.

I hadn't even considered this!
Mind if I make a suggestion topic and list all the guns/items that could use this feature and some ideas on how to implement them?

[forwardslashN]

Mind if I make a suggestion topic and list all the guns/items that could use this feature and some ideas on how to implement them?

Please use this topic instead. I am leaving it open for that reason.

[Steelpoint]

From a technical stand point this is very feasible, its also how two handed firearms (heavy_guns or something) on /tg/station function. Its just that there's only one firearm on /tg/ that uses this and that's the salvaged turret gun which no one ever gets.

From a gameplay perspective it would speed up certain area's of combat, such as dropping items and firing. But it would diminish the value of ambushing Marines who've been caught with their pants down, with the current system a ambushed marine who was doing another task has to get their gun and equip it, yet with this proposed system now they just need to drop what's in their other hand or just pick up their M41A and their ready to go very quickly.

[TopHatPenguin]

-1

The current system is designed as easy to use, difficult to master. That's exactly the way the most reliable rifle in the game should handle, in my opinion.

Use your hotkeys.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this suggestion as well, I mean using hotkeys isn't required in any case as you can still do tasks without them it's just hotkeys make certains tasks faster as well as macros.
-1 to the suggestion.

EDIT: Currently the two handed system for guns works fine, so if this does go ahead it seems pointless imo as the current system already works.

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-1 because I'm at least ok with pistols and smg going off but I rather not have an Sadar, sniper, well anything two handed to shoot someone else in the face on accident. Also if there is a 2/∞ (because seriously where do you hide all these things) gun meta I don't think its because of reloading but how reliable pouncing and stuns are for xenos, which results in you dropping your weapons unless you have a mag harness on it

[forwardslashN]

I've reworked twohanding to be far more efficient while still retaining the same system. Joshuu and I have discussed some changes we can make to make it even more robust, but the base is staying the same. Denied.