Crusher nerf suggestion, v2.0

[Infant Punter]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Look. This is coming from the guy who got ancient crusher. And I've got something to say about how GODLY easy it was to solo the entire marine battalion even BEFORE I got to that stage.

1 - Crusher tackle. You run up, tackle one marine, drag him off while clicking on him, effectively slashing him while blocking bullets from his buddies who are trying to save him. It's the strat. And it's OP as shit, as a crusher tackle works 9/10 times, even on a marine with a riotsheild/machete setup. We need to reduce the crusher tackle chance to be VERY minimal on working, if possible.

2 - Crusher Immunity. I'm all for them being immune to explosives. But Armor-piercing rifle and pistol cartridges are usually built around a penetrator of hardened steel, tungsten, or tungsten carbide. They need to actually damage the goddamn crusher. At least an 80% chance to go through the headplate. Because as of now, AP rounds mean nothing except a beautiful FF tool.

2a - Also, AP rockets. They work by impacting, shooting liquid, molten hot copper into the armor (In this case, the crushers skull), and then injecting the explosive. They really need to actually work on crushers.

Those are the nerfs I think that would keep crushers useful, but remove them from demigod status.

And yes, this does not include nerfing stomp. It's fine.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Marines actually standing a chance against a competent crusher.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Refer to above.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): I'd assume some adjustments can be made.

[apophis775]

If your talking about an ancient crusher, they are SUPPOSED to be godly easy to just dominate the marines with.

That's why they take around 90 minutes to produce.

Also, remember that T3's are supposed to be more powerful, because there can only be so many of them (if there's 10 aliens, only 2 T3s).

So know that, if your a crusher and your doing your crusher thing, that means that:
There's one less T2 (T2 share slots with T3), and there's one less T3.

Example:
10 Ayylium Game there can be:

2 T3s
2 T2s
or
1 T3
3 T2s
or
0 T3
4 T2


When I get some more time, I'll look into balancing them again, but if you get an ancient crusher, it's designed to be a god of death.

[Infant Punter]

I'm talking about a regular crusher. It only got easier and easier of course over time, but I was still rampaging the poor marines the entire round after I got crusher. Disarmtackle, clickdrag, run away while biting, repeat. Also being immune to rockets meant to penetrate heavily armored vehicles.

I entirely understand ancient crusher being meant to be a game-ending god of death, though.

[Steelpoint]

All I would ask for is that a direct hit from a anti-tank (or whatever its called) SADAR round should really screw over a Crusher. Considering how hard it is to land direct hits with the SADAR, especially since you NEED a direct hit to even hurt the Crusher, I would want to at least ensure a direct hit will result in the Crusher having a bad day.

Its hard to test these things but so long as there's something to put the fear of god into the Crusher I'll be happy.

[Toroic]

Simply put, these suggestions are awful and no part of your analysis is accurate.

Crushers have good tackles because their normal damage is garbage. Ravager tackle is also good, except it's faster to just kill you.

Why in the world would they have a bad tackle?

Also, it takes over 3 hours to reach ancient crusher, and if Crusher was actually that OP it would never have lasted that long, unless you are incompetent.

I had a game where I was the first runner to get Jelly, and we had an elite emperess before I reached elite crusher, and the game was over. Mature crusher is tanky from the front, but snipers and attacks from the sides and back are incredibly deadly. A sniper from the front was half my hp as a young crusher, which was like 90 min into the round.

-1

[Infant Punter]

Given that your picture is a crusher, I can see why you'd disagree. Believe me, I adore demolishing marines as a crusher too, but I'm just trying to keep in the best interest of what is fair.

But let me run through some scenarios I've gotten through as a young crusher.

• - Young crusher, charge into crowd of 5 marines all alone, stomp, start dragging one away, he screams for help as I slash away at his skull. He gets up. DISARMTACKLEBECAUSE 9/10 CHANCE. Continue the slaughter. Drag him to his fate, clicking behind me and slashing him, while blocking bullets from his helpless comrades. Repeat. Eventually wiped out all his friends too, and their reinforcements.

• - Was the last alien on sulaco. Was at the end of the hallways, end of that 3x wide hallway. Marines pour into the room via the 2 doors like cannon fodder as my tackles absolutely tear through them. I slay nearly 15 marines in there alone, along with another 6 above in engineering.

• - Brave few competent marines are aware that melee/fire is the only way to truly best a crusher. Two marines with machetes charge me. One with a B-18 and riot sheild. I disarm both of them with no resistance, not even a block, kill them both via tacklespam with varying harm intent.

How is this fair, you ask? It's not. It really, really isn't. Nerfing crusher tackle would be a godsend.

And yes, actually being a scared crusher when you see a SADAR should be a thing.

[northcote4]

-Snip-

While I could be wrong, Infant Punter, the vibe I'm getting from your most recent post seems to come across not as the crusher being OP, but the crusher and marines being exceedingly robust and/or incompetent, respectively.

While I'm they're certainly strong, I've seen crushers go down like a wet sponge to concentrated fire (with help from our good friend the autocannon).

Things are hard to balance when robustness meets incompetence, as it can make anything seem blatantly overpowered. But that's just my two cents.

[Infant Punter]

double snip

While I suppose that's a point worthy of bringing up, I'd like to believe that not every last marine on the sulaco that I managed to disarmkill was entirely incompetent/lacking of robustness. It was hella easy to keep them stunlocked with disarm while biting the shit out of them, and also disarming their comrades.

[northcote4]

-Triple Snip-.

Again, valid points. Though on the topic of robustness, might I say that I've personally never witnessed an alien robust enough to tackle AND slash multiple marines at the same time. I'm sure they're around, but I've yet to witness any.

That alone may give some credence to crusher tackle being too strong. Though I for one am in favour of crushers having a really high tackle chance (I like to imagine it headbutts), even if that means minimal slash damage. The damage, naturally, is mitigated by upgrading however.

[Toroic]

While I suppose that's a point worthy of bringing up, I'd like to believe that not every last marine on the sulaco that I managed to disarmkill was entirely incompetent/lacking of robustness. It was hella easy to keep them stunlocked with disarm while biting the shit out of them, and also disarming their comrades.

Literally every tier 3 xeno should dominate a marine 1v1, and if they're attacking you in a disorganized fashion it's basically just a bunch of 1v1. Halinder killed half the Sulaco as a pre-update ravager solo, and he also killed a predator as a hivelord solo.

Ravager needs to avoid grenades, but not fire. The Sulaco is also designed so that it is difficult for marines to effectively fight there.

The vast majority of marines are terrible at this game, and 3 of every 4 crushers that I see are easily killed by marines flanking or general incompetence.

Both Ravagers and Crushers have the potential to wreck many marines over the course of the round, which is generally necessary because they are the equivalent of specialists for the xenos. A specialist who isn't killing a few xenos themselves is a wasted slot.

Crushers can move in, dragging of a screaming marine, but they are honestly much better at capturing marines alive than killing them. Ravagers and queens have better tackles than crushers do.

The ravager equivalent of what you did as a crusher would be equally fatal and much faster.

If AP rounds and AP rockets need a buff that's fine, but AP rockets shouldn't be a 1 shot kill in any case. 2 sniper rounds definitely kills a young crusher, which is a pretty potent counter already.

[MrJJJ]

Halinder killed half the Sulaco as a pre-update ravager solo

You comparing 1 extremley robust guy to litteraly everyone else

[jalen earl]

Pretty simple a robust crusher is pretty much unstoppable but is completely screwed without a fallback position or support no matter what level of upgrade. And as for the tackle its supposed to be a steamroller of death but again the best way to beat it is step aside

[Toroic]

You comparing 1 extremley robust guy to litteraly everyone else

One extremely robust ravager killed 30-40 marines. No one cried nerf, yet I've been seeing crusher nerf threads all week without a performance of that level.

I also see crushers die easily all the time.

[lcass123]

You can say that about any alien though , sure lots of them die all the time but it shouldn't be the case that 1 crusher can take out the entire sulaco forces of 15 marines.

[Gentlemanly_headcrab]

-1 Ehh, like I said in the other thread about this (lots of crusher hate all of the sudden?) Crusher's are weak against good competent marines, A crusher can only defend one side of it. A crusher even in the YOUNG state can be deadly against marines that do not know what to do about them. But in a fight against even moderately competent marines that understand that "Wait a minute, only ONE SIDE is armored, let's just move to two sides and have like one guy near the bottom and surround him altogether and he'll be down" The crusher will be pretty boned, it takes close to 2-3 hours to get ancient and if you do that means you're a giant ball of armor which if you can get to that is a deserving role.

Crusher's are slow, that's the weakness, they're massive frothing tanks that besides the obvious charge that can only go down one way is destined to tank the damage for the team or be a shield for a spitter. A crusher is horrifyingly slow compared to literally every other xeno class besides maybe the queen/boiler (which both stay back) If a crusher charges in it has to either find a way out using it's shield head and clicking back at the marines to turn around like their backing up rendering them very slow and undefended unless another Xeno is nearby, or charge back and pray that the concentrated gunfire on their unarmored backside doesn't rend them dead before their momentum allows escape.

(Just my two cents.)

[Egorkor]

as I've said in the other thread, first we gotta see how AP rockets work no them crushers because as of now I have not seen an AP hit a crusher, ever. last I've been told they drop them barely to 25% of health which is you know, nothing.

[forwardslashN]

Apop has spoken. When the update has seen more use, crushers may be adjusted. Locked.