Knocked-down Interactions

[Sarah_U.]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Basically, allow people to move and interact on a limited level when they're knocked down.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
It'll give some realism and fairplay with the already present mechanic the xenos/hellhounds can use.
Additionally marines will have some chance to desperately fight when shoved.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
NOTE: Screech does not let the marine use this benefit at all untill they stand.

- Non-xeno knocked down:
Small cooldown on action from being knocked down.
After such, can use objects and interact in a 3x3 tile.
Can only attack with harm intent whatever is right above it (1x1)
Being knocked down again drop the items and being pulled strain your grip (?).
EDIT: You're unable to throw objects, but you're able to drop items*.
EDIT: Nesting doesn't allow you to take part with this feature since you're stuck and not just on the ground.

- Xeno knocked down:
Small cooldown on action from being knocked down if still conscious (Explosion are disregarded).
After such, can shove in a 3x3 tile.
Can only attack with harm intent whatever is right above it (1x1), but possibly bypass this check with tail active.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Use the already present mechanic and update it to benefit everyone and have a more controlled usage using conditions and variables.

*Grenades can be held in hand or dropped, but the xeno have time to react due to this since it can't be thrown untill the marine is standing.

[Azmodan412]

Hey look, you took inspiration from my bug report. The Highlander gives a +1. HE WANTS HIS FUCKING AXE KILLS!

[Sarah_U.]

Honnestly I'd make 2-handed items loose their grip if you're pulled or shoved... Making the use of knives and some small objects like sidearms a tad bit more useful.

[Azmodan412]

I can still use my axe, but not to its full potential when down, good.

[Sarah_U.]

Yea but remember as per suggestion if a xeno shove you and pull you away, your axe's gone still.

[Toroic]

-1. Functionally this is just a marine buff when they are in a state that is already not 100% reliable unless they are outnumbered by giving more opportunities to cause trouble after they have already been outplayed.

[SUPERMAN112]

I like it, +1, when I started playing SS13 in general I remember being shocked that you couldn't do anything while disarmed and found it really strange, I think this would be a nice improvement to the combat system. The suggestion isn't drastically in favor of either side, rather keeps a nice balance and makes the mechanics a bit more fair.

[Toroic]

I like it, +1, when I started playing SS13 in general I remember being shocked that you couldn't do anything while disarmed and found it really strange, I think this would be a nice improvement to the combat system. The suggestion isn't drastically in favor of either side, rather keeps a nice balance and makes the mechanics a bit more fair.

In no way is this suggestion at all useful to xenos, and it certainly is drastically in favor of marines. For xenos, it is literally worthless.

Either you are being dishonest or you are incapable of analyzing the impact this change would have on the game.

A huge part of xeno on marine combat is tackles. Xenos are only knocked down from explosions, self stun, and crit, none of which they should be able to take action in.

[SUPERMAN112]

In no way is this suggestion at all useful to xenos, and it certainly is drastically in favor of marines. For xenos, it is literally worthless.

Either you are being dishonest or you are incapable of analyzing the impact this change would have on the game.

A huge part of xeno on marine combat is tackles. Xenos are only knocked down from explosions, self stun, and crit, none of which they should be able to take action in.

You don't need to be so hostile and rude dude, relax people have different opinions. The suggestion proposes a 1x1 tile of attack for marines, the majority of xenos tackle from one tile off so they wouldn't be able to hurt the most xenos. For runner and hunters who tackle the suggestion proposed a momentary stun when initially knocked down, plenty of time to hug a downed marine. This wouldn't really have a huge impact on the game, just add a mechanic that could make tackle combat more fair in some instances, however could easily be balanced since a marine stabbing a xeno above them would get them drenched in acid, so it would do damage to both parties. (As seen during Aliens when Vasquez was tackled by an alien in the vents but still able to defend herself, not saying the game should be 100% lore/real world accurate cause it would make the game not so fun).

[Toroic]

You don't need to be so hostile and rude dude, relax people have different opinions. The suggestion proposes a 1x1 tile of attack for marines, the majority of xenos tackle from one tile off so they wouldn't be able to hurt the most xenos. For runner and hunters who tackle the suggestion proposed a momentary stun when initially knocked down, plenty of time to hug a downed marine. This wouldn't really have a huge impact on the game, just add a mechanic that could make tackle combat more fair in some instances, however could easily be balanced since a marine stabbing a xeno above them would get them drenched in acid, so it would do damage to both parties. (As seen during Aliens when Vasquez was tackled by an alien in the vents but still able to defend herself, not saying the game should be 100% lore/real world accurate cause it would make the game not so fun).

You're making 2 critical assumptions that are incorrect.

1) That the current system is unfair.

You haven't proven this in any way, and tackles already have RNG built into the success rate and duration to create windows of oppurtunity for marines to escape. Marines generally have already lost once they get into melee range.

2) That I do not understand the impact this will have on the game.

if marines can use objects, then things like grenades, stimulants, OB, C4, or throwing knives would be possible. Bad xenos will be affected by the 1x1 attack range, and it will be more difficult for new players to learn to play xeno.

It's not that I don't understand the impact, but I don't think it is a positive one.

However, you are objectively false when you say that it gives something to both sides. Marines already avoid a 3x3 around a downes xeno because of huggers, and marines spend a lot of time tackled compared to xenos. This isn't a matter of opinion.

[SUPERMAN112]

You're making 2 critical assumptions that are incorrect.

1) That the current system is unfair.

You haven't proven this in any way, and tackles already have RNG built into the success rate and duration to create windows of oppurtunity for marines to escape. Marines generally have already lost once they get into melee range.

2) That I do not understand the impact this will have on the game.

if marines can use objects, then things like grenades, stimulants, OB, C4, or throwing knives would be possible. Bad xenos will be affected by the 1x1 attack range, and it will be more difficult for new players to learn to play xeno.

It's not that I don't understand the impact, but I don't think it is a positive one.

However, you are objectively false when you say that it gives something to both sides. Marines already avoid a 3x3 around a downes xeno because of huggers, and marines spend a lot of time tackled compared to xenos. This isn't a matter of opinion.

So what is fair is now a fact? So I can say it's fair for drones to one shot marines, marines to nuke at round-start and that's a fact? wow that's cool! This suggestion adds another level of skill needed for players, which is always nice, players that play more can feel accomplished when they learn the mechanics. Yes all those objects could be used while down, that is fine, and it is inline with the lore, Vasquez as well as other marines in comics and expanded continuity have resorted to suicide by grenades while surrounded by xenos, this suggestion makes that cool out for marines possible. The suggestion says that they will be stunned while tackled initially, and when tackled a second time they will drop their weapon/what they were holding, so this will have xenos work together to get prey as they will be a bit more dangerous, which is also what xenos should be doing anyways. This suggestions adds an incredibly small to marines, the xenos can fight when stunned in certain specific instances so why should't marines be able to? They are highly trained after all. After the marine nesting buffs I don't think this tiny buff will be all that destructive (especially since hand chewing is gonna get removed). Making marines harder to get nested and making nests harder to get out of is a nice balance, no? You don't need to turn a difference of opinion into an ad hominem rage attack/insulting toddler lists...

[danmax67]

+1

because i want to be able to dramatically back away from the alium while screaming on comms "HAAALLPPP!" so it can be more horror movie like

[Sarah_U.]

Suddently I read my suggestion and I gain an headhache.

This is a suggestion. The xenos can currently tackle you down when they're downed due to a bug and it's quite annoying for some players.
What I suggest is that instead of completly removing it we implement a first stepping stone to prone combat. Not to destroy gameplay but to take advantage of the bug and make something completly new and interesting out of it.

Small note here: The cooldown on using items would be higher than the cooldown for an hunter to restart moving... Which gives quite a while for xenos to hug, decap or crowd-control you with some shoves and pulls.

[Toroic]

So what is fair is now a fact? So I can say it's fair for drones to one shot marines, marines to nuke at round-start and that's a fact? wow that's cool! This suggestion adds another level of skill needed for players, which is always nice, players that play more can feel accomplished when they learn the mechanics. Yes all those objects could be used while down, that is fine, and it is inline with the lore, Vasquez as well as other marines in comics and expanded continuity have resorted to suicide by grenades while surrounded by xenos, this suggestion makes that cool out for marines possible. The suggestion says that they will be stunned while tackled initially, and when tackled a second time they will drop their weapon/what they were holding, so this will have xenos work together to get prey as they will be a bit more dangerous, which is also what xenos should be doing anyways. This suggestions adds an incredibly small to marines, the xenos can fight when stunned in certain specific instances so why should't marines be able to? They are highly trained after all. After the marine nesting buffs I don't think this tiny buff will be all that destructive (especially since hand chewing is gonna get removed). Making marines harder to get nested and making nests harder to get out of is a nice balance, no? You don't need to turn a difference of opinion into an ad hominem rage attack/insulting toddler lists...

The fact that you think marines throwing grenades while being tackled is a reasonable suggestion pretty much proves my point: you don't know what you're talking about.

Xenos shouldn't need to gang up on marines, because marines outnumber xenos. This should be obvious without me having to point it out.

You need to make an argument for why the current system is unfair before you can suggest a buff for what you feel is the wronged party. You have not. Lore is not a sufficent argument for mechanical change.

Complexity for it's own sake is bad design. You're basically making tackling and controlling marines far more difficult at all stages of the game, and the buff for marines is much larger than you appear capable of grasping.

I've said what needs to be said on this topic, hopefully it will be rapidly buried and denied.

[Sarah_U.]

Well let me edit this then.
EDIT: Throwing objects is impossible due to being dissoriented and pinned.

[SUPERMAN112]

The fact that you think marines throwing grenades while being tackled is a reasonable suggestion pretty much proves my point: you don't know what you're talking about.

Xenos shouldn't need to gang up on marines, because marines outnumber xenos. This should be obvious without me having to point it out.

You need to make an argument for why the current system is unfair before you can suggest a buff for what you feel is the wronged party. You have not. Lore is not a sufficent argument for mechanical change.

Complexity for it's own sake is bad design. You're basically making tackling and controlling marines far more difficult at all stages of the game, and the buff for marines is much larger than you appear capable of grasping.

I've said what needs to be said on this topic, hopefully it will be rapidly buried and denied.

You argue like a 4 year old... "you're wrong and stupid, I'm right cause you don't know anything"... real mature... Xenos should need to gang up on marines when cloning is ditched and nesting is made pretty much inescapable, because when a marine is taken out they are gone, but a killed xeno can pop back up fairly easily. Yes marine outnumber xenos, no crap, but with the current direction the server is heading aliens will be easily replaceable, marines won't, so small tweaks and marine buffs would be acceptable. Please explain how this is such a massive buff for marines if implemented how it was suggested? This suggestion is not willy nilly stabbing while down, there are limits and restrictions on it only giving a split second opportunity to slash at a xeno. It would not be that difficult AT ALL since most xenos don't stand on top of their target, so they couldn't even be harmed.

[Sarah_U.]

Ooooooh so you guys didn't understand I wasn't asking for it being implemented for nests. Kay!

Editing to keep current nest logic rather than have suicide bombers all-over.

[Solringen]

+1. If you could use pistol/knife and crawl while down that would be great.

[Sailor Dave]

I think I want to give this a +1, but I'm not entirely certain. I think this would be good to have, maybe if the tackle chance was increased slightly, and it can be very frustrating not being able to do anything as a fallen marine; However, it might make it too difficult for the weaker castes to drag a host around if they're carrying several weapons, like knives. I do like the idea of having the tackle be more reliable, but the marines can actively struggle instead of uselessly lying around.

[Snypehunter007]

I would be okay with having my gun go off in the struggle or something when an alien tackles me (NOT STUNS LIKE QUEEN OR CRUSHER), it already happens with humans when trying to disarm. I would also like being able to try to go for a grenade, as I would like to be able to kill myself at least once when the aliens get me and the idea of being able to shoot a pistol (revolver or standard) when on the ground like that as you aren't laying completely still as the alien drags you away is pretty cool. I agree with the "second tackle dropping all items in your hand" and I don't think this would be something that is OUTRAGEOUSLY in favor of humans as Xenos already spam tackle so yeah. +1

[forwardslashN]

I want to do this in the future when mob code is better.

[coolsurf6]

This will take a long time to code. But this needs to happen!

[ChickenShizNit8]

I like it. Would be nice that when you get spat-spammed you can whip out a pistol and try and push them back until you can stand and run.

+1

[Sarah_U.]

Spit spam is inspired from Alien 4 (It exist somehow) and despite the fact it's spamful and all that, it's even more hardcore in the movie by completly taking you out and numbing your body entirely.

[ChickenShizNit8]

Spit spam is inspired from Alien 4 (It exist somehow) and despite the fact it's spamful and all that, it's even more hardcore in the movie my completly taking you out and numbing your body entirely.

I know. I for one when playing alien, always go ranged. I have been on both ends of spit spam and either way, I would enjoy this, for whatever reasons.