Ancient spitter rebalance.

[Whistle]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Replace the obscene spitter fire rate at ancient levels for the ability to use the boiler spray.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): This will reduce knockdown spam.
This will allow the area denial spray to actually be used in a useful manner, the boilers main purpose being the bombard ability which it will keep.
It will add a very unused combat mechanic from the xeno to see more light that does not just knock you down.
(while some may say that boilers may use it effectively, I am not here to argue that fact)

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Gives a mutation to the spitter caste which would fit as the Boiler is an upgraded variant with no direct branching abilities, they merely share the caveat of ranged combat.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Add a third togglable or hotkey ability to fire the acid spray at the ancient level of spitter while limiting their ROF to the current elite levels or lower.

[Infant Punter]

Given that some others and I just witnessed a single ancient spitter take down 3 DS members.

I agree there needs to be a change.

[Solacian72]

What's an ancient spitter? I'm pretty sure you meant xenomorph machine guns.

+1

[Butterrobber202]

-1
Marines have Autoturrets, we have Ancient Spitters.

[Toroic]

I think the spit rate should be reduced. The ability to keep 3 spread out marines down indefinitely is a little absurd.

[KingKire]

+1, Spitter spam needs to be reduced pretty hard. As for comparing it to the autoturret, the fact that spitters glob outranges even the auto turrets max range, allowing them to disable it without threat really puts that argument to bed, if not highlighting how strong spitters actually are.

[Shyguychizzy]

+1 I reckon they need a good nerfing, I witnessed that 3 DS getting pinned by a ancient spitter.

[jaisavage]

-1
Marines have Autoturrets, we have Ancient Spitters.

Auto turrets don't knock down xeno's

[Ranged66]

-1
It takes a really long time to get to ancient levels for a spitter (2850 ticks on your jelly, 48 minutes assuming 1 tick/s which it often isn't, the figure is closed to an hour and a half due to server lag). All the while the previous spitter levels are fairly squishy, so in order to even get to ancient levels the player has to play very safe. IMO if you can survive that long you deserve the reward for making it to ancient.

[MrJJJ]

So this is another unfair comprasion and nobody who brought it up and -1'ed this seems to fucking understand
Let me explain

SPITTER
1.Mobile
2.Has 2 acids, one is a knockdown, the other is acid
3.Has infinite ammo as long as on weeds
4.Can stun and keep down 3 marines even at young
5.Has a melee attack
6.Can upgrade itself to become stronger
7.Requires no setting up to use, just needs to evolve from a sentinel (which is easy)
8.Heals itself any damages as long as on weeds or affected by recovery pheromone.
9.Can carry huggers, which can stun a marine and make him a host
10.Deals burn damage that gives you more hallos than brute damage, and within 3 spits you may be already slow as hell

SENTRY
1.Immobile, needs to be moved by others
2.Can only fire bullets but either with burst-fire or not
3.Has limited ammo of 300, and a spare 300 once it runs out
4.Can't stun anything at all
5.Has no melee attacks whatsoever
6.Can't upgrade itself at all, always stays the same
7.Requires a setting up to use and even activate, which take at least half a minute to do, can be revived however using the same setting up
8.Can't heal any damage on its own expect by engineers (or any marines with tools really)
9.Can't carry anything, its a sentry, its purpose is to shoot
10.Deals a mega-ton of brute damage, 3 shots can put down most Tier One Aliens into critical state and if safety turned off, can kill marines with ease

Here ya go.

[Warnipple]

-1 Ancient Spitters are the most fun to play, suggested ideas are not that great.

Its really an achievement to achieve Ancient Spitter, they don't need an niche ability from another class (boiler flamethrower). It'll be even more powerful, seeing as spitters can stun already, or be really useless because you're replacing their best ability, stun spit, with boiler flamethrower. It may even encourage NOT upgrading to Ancient Spitter.

In truth though, I do think Ancient Spitters are a little overpowered but they fill a niche role similar to other castes. They are glass cannon crowd control caste. No other evolution can do it as well as the spitter can. It takes a moderate amount of skill to aim too.

I wouldn't mind if accuracy went down a very slight amount. I'm talking minuscule amounts like 0.05. Reason being as spitter evolves, he spits faster so that accuracy debuff is negated by evolving.

[Sarah_U.]

I'd say lower accuracy the more you spit. Otherwise that spitter was GOLD. He survived with me and we really shouldn't of. We got flanked, we got stunned, we got crit, but never did the mariens all out rush inside as a whole group and the few times a small group did they were too few.

You want to know what stops an ancient spitter? A well-placed grenade, a good teamwork and most likely cover.
Oh and also, killing the aliens before it's 4 hours in.

But on a more serious note, DS was always known to be chemical-weak. Gotta fix it somewhen.

[Ranged66]

To the +1's saying that Spitters can spit indefinitely as they're on weeds, no they can't. They burn through plasma really, really fast especially when firing acid. All it takes is one, maybe two bullets and the spitter will either keep firing and run out shortly, leaving him defenseless which can be deadly unless he has backup, or retreat to regen health.

[MrJJJ]

To the +1's saying that Spitters can spit indefinitely as they're on weeds, no they can't. They burn through plasma really, really fast especially when firing acid. All it takes is one, maybe two bullets and the spitter will either keep firing and run out shortly, leaving him defenseless which can be deadly unless he has backup, or retreat to regen health.

Uh, no, once they get to mature, by the time the neurotoxin spit recharges, you already filled back in the plasma you lost by spitting once, yes they run out of acid fast because its 100 compared to 50 from neurotoxin even on ancient, but by the time they usually do, the job is done

[Ranged66]

As soon as they are hurt though, they stop regenning plasma and it takes quite a while to heal up again. At the rate of fire of an ancient spitter, you will burn through your reserves quickly.

[MrJJJ]

As soon as they are hurt though, they stop regenning plasma and it takes quite a while to heal up again. At the rate of fire of an ancient spitter, you will burn through your reserves quickly.

How often are they hurt? not really at all since they dodge most of your bullets or spit you down before you can fire.

[Ranged66]

I play spitter quite a lot.
There have been times where I dodged everything, matrix style, and there have been times where I got hit by 3 stray bullets in a row. You really get hurt quite often if you stay near the battlefield, a lot more then you think. sure you can stay back and spit at random but you won't hit shit if you do.

[Egorkor]

a change is mandatory indeed, because the game is the definition of who stuns wins now, getting to elite is piss easy especially that your jelly cost is halved, and elite and ancient aren't all that different. elites stunlock you already as is.

[Spider]

a change is mandatory indeed, because the game is the definition of who stuns wins now, getting to elite is piss easy especially that your jelly cost is halved, and elite and ancient aren't all that different. elites stunlock you already as is.

thats basically combat in ss13

but unless marines can rapidly stun aliens while also inflicting damage, then nerf pls

[Steelpoint]

This situations amusing because in SS13 stuns are king.

In vanilla SS13 you have the balance problem where assault weapons like Combat Shotguns and Laser Rifles are seen to be weaker than a humble Taser.

In ACM that for the most part is a non-issue. However the Sentinal cast line has access to ranged stun attacks. By itself this is not a problem since at the early "young" level the spit rate of fire is low enough that it is a threat to individual Marines and a threat when Aliens are coordinating attacks, but its not powerful enough to make the caste be able to tango with a lot of Marines.

Imo I always felt the spit attacks should be a support weapon, not one to lead the charge and stun everyone, but I digress.

Yet now we have the problem where higher level Sentinel class line Aliens can actually become extreamly powerful, and their access to a rapid fire ranged stun weapon further exacerbates the situation.

[pyrocketry]

I have encountered an ancient spitter a few times as an alien and i can definitely see the problem, their spit cooldown is ridiculously low. However it takes quite a while for an ancient spitter to show up due to the time it takes for one to evolve and i feel as though it should still be rewarding to reach Ancient spitter. so yeah some balancing should be done but not TOO much.

[Durper]

+1 I'm tired of MG 42 Spit speed, they can perma stun a marine, knock down turrets, and pain crit everyone instantly. It's not hard to become an ancient spitter you just need to survive and avoid combat until you reach ancient level.

Also they're a bit immersion breaking in my opinion, they essentially become Alien marines with a better rate of fire and can regen health.

[outordinary]

-1 better learn to get more robust man. Ancient spitters don't need acid spray. What they need is to be able to spit. I hope you know that when apop sees threads like this, he knows he balanced them right. "You are the master of ranged stuns and damage. Go forth and generate SALT!!!. This is all salt from simply not being more wary of an ancient level xenomorph. Sure it may seem more dangerous because it specializes in stuns which people are more susceptible to, but other ancient level xenos are just as dangerous used right. Learn to dodge or hide behind something and fire and you won't be as salty.

[Whistle]

-1 better learn to get more robust man. Ancient spitters don't need acid spray. What they need is to be able to spit. I hope you know that when apop sees threads like this, he knows he balanced them right. "You are the master of ranged stuns and damage. Go forth and generate SALT!!!. This is all salt from simply not being more wary of an ancient level xenomorph. Sure it may seem more dangerous because it specializes in stuns which people are more susceptible to, but other ancient level xenos are just as dangerous used right. Learn to dodge or hide behind something and fire and you won't be as salty.

Hate to burst your bubble there, I main xeno. This isn't salt and I'd wait on Pops making a comment on the matter rather than let someone speak for them.

We need less reasons for teams to camp behind fortified positions, the game stagnates.

Also please note that I have made the suggestions with to reduce the ANCIENT spit with reservations that it may not be enough, however I erred on the side of caution, nobody wants a dull caste, that said, nobody plays prae anymore.

Ancient spitters should be as rewarding as ancient t2's and I respect that, but I have seen Elites with their ROF decimate people well enough.

[outordinary]

Not bursting anything bro, I stand by what I said. You have many choices to take down a spitter using mines, nades, bullets, snipers, dodging spit with your faster than a spitter speed, riot shields etc. Hiding behind some defenses is just one of those choices. Nerfing the stength of an ancient level xenomorph or replacing what makes it unique with another types move won't change any of that.

It only serves to make what already takes a bit more robustness easier.