Minimum SADAR Range

[bloody russkie]

We ALREADY have limited line of sight with recent lights nerf. 5 tiles maximum from flashlight, you kidding?
Yet another SADAR nerf proposal from salty xenos. -1.

[SPACEpotato1]

I'm not a salty xeno, as you claim.

I haven't played the game in a week or so, this was made long before that and I still argue my point.

If you are with your squad members, you shouldn't have any trouble seeing what is around you, you should also utilise flares if light is such an issue.

[Joe4444]

Ok thats fair, as long as you let me just walk out of Sadar rockets like you can boilers acid. Boilers acid literally does nothing but area denial unless you suck.

you know it paincrits you in like...2 seconds right?

[kastion]

you know it paincrits you in like...2 seconds right?

You know if you stand in it for 2 seconds you are a scrublord right? Ive never taken damage from boiler acid ever. It is soooooooooo easy to get out of.

[completelynewguy]

You know if you stand in it for 2 seconds you are a scrublord right? Ive never taken damage from boiler acid ever. It is soooooooooo easy to get out of.

You know you might've been pushed in the resulting chaos right? Like, waiting for the cloud to disperse for turret maintenance or keeping the front line secured while out of the cloud.

-1, xenos often run away at the sight of a Spec carrying a SADAR. It causes this odd RP of the Spec keeping their rocket launcher away despite the possibility of an armored unit in the AO.

[Joe4444]

You know if you stand in it for 2 seconds you are a scrublord right? Ive never taken damage from boiler acid ever. It is soooooooooo easy to get out of.

you know you don't have time to move out of it if your in the middle right? gas clouds ain't easy to get out of if the boiler knows what he's doing.The fact you said you've "never taken damage from boiler acid ever" means A)you've never seen a boiler cloud or B) your just flat out lying.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

You know if you stand in it for 2 seconds you are a scrublord right? Ive never taken damage from boiler acid ever. It is soooooooooo easy to get out of.

You have not felt what it's like to get attacked by boilers.

[Mephiliso]

I've seen quite a few SADAR users walk up to Boilers and just SADAR them in the face, not sure how to feel about this just because the SADAR is SO GOOD. This coming from a Marine player.

[Jeser]

I've seen quite a few SADAR users walk up to Boilers and just SADAR them in the face, not sure how to feel about this just because the SADAR is SO GOOD. This coming from a Marine player.

That's problems of a) Boiler, who didn't see Spec coming; b) aliens who HAVE TO cover boiler when he is bombarding, because he is an easy target. Equal problems like when Spec got dragged because he wasn't careful enough and his squad didn't cover him.

[Jroinc1]

That's problems of a) Boiler, who didn't see Spec coming; b) aliens who HAVE TO cover boiler when he is bombarding, because he is an easy target. Equal problems like when Spec got dragged because he wasn't careful enough and his squad didn't cover him.

I've seen people (Boris Cancerov) use a binocular macro to rapidswitch vision every 5 seconds, lurk inside a squad behind the battlefront (so he can't be harrassed) while looking in all directions until he can see that tell-tale glimmer of light in the distance, then SPRINT IN and insta-kill the boiler. THAT'S what we find OP about it.
a) The boiler SEES the spec, he just can't do anything fast enough, and it's a one-hit KO.
b) We can't cover him from a sprinting spec, aand if we try, rocket to the face.

Honestly, the SADAR doesn't bother me THAT much, it's just we have people like Cancerov who powergame HEAVILY, doing all of the above (I watched for a round, this is what I observed):
A) Do NOT leave the back lines unless they have a target, which is annoying.
B) Scope out EVERYWHERE with binocular macros, or stupidly quick reflexes, preventing hiding or being behind the lines from being effective.
C) SPRINT in and out, negating the "reload time" drawback AND preventing xenos from effectively engaging as a xeno is noobtubed.
D) Retreat and treat themselves if they get hit by a SINGLE spitter spit, preventing any alien ranged attacks from being effective.
E) Save eery rocket frame and reload them FOR FREE in the RO's machine, negating the "limited ammo" drawback.
F) Drag around a body-bag full of backpacks of rocket ammo, again negating the "limited ammo" drawback.

THIS is bullshit. I have no problem with the SADAR, and many of these are good, legit strategies, namely A,B, and D. Buut E and F are annoying and lead to unlimited ammo, and C means that xenos have almost no window to attack him as he's never vulnerable, even when attacking.
Nerf the SADAR sprint, so Cancerov can still be effective in driving back xenos and his powergaming, while not getting as many instakills from xenos that have no time to react.

[InterroLouis]

Hmmm. I've never seen that body bag one. More often it's just pulling a single backpack with rockets in so you can wear your secondary M41A on your back.

[Jroinc1]

Hmmm. I've never seen that body bag one. More often it's just pulling a single backpack with rockets in so you can wear your secondary M41A on your back.

Yeah, it's kind-of iffy, but I've seen it.
Individually, they're legit strats, but taken all-together, it's the pile of bullshit we associate with the SADAR.
ONE of them needs to be nerfed, either the "endless ammo", the "SADAR sprint", or the "lol im never exposed have fun".
Easiest and most lore-friendly is the SADAR sprint. Add a delay before firing, OR put in a small slowdown (totally can be dealt with by hyperzine, but that's something I'd be willing to put up with).

[Kerek]

-1, SADAR suicide is needed, why not take out a few xenos at the same time?

[username123]

I've seen people (Boris Cancerov) use a binocular macro to rapidswitch vision every 5 seconds, lurk inside a squad behind the battlefront (so he can't be harrassed) while looking in all directions until he can see that tell-tale glimmer of light in the distance, then SPRINT IN and insta-kill the boiler. THAT'S what we find OP about it.
a) The boiler SEES the spec, he just can't do anything fast enough, and it's a one-hit KO.
b) We can't cover him from a sprinting spec, aand if we try, rocket to the face.

Honestly, the SADAR doesn't bother me THAT much, it's just we have people like Cancerov who powergame HEAVILY, doing all of the above (I watched for a round, this is what I observed):
A) Do NOT leave the back lines unless they have a target, which is annoying.
B) Scope out EVERYWHERE with binocular macros, or stupidly quick reflexes, preventing hiding or being behind the lines from being effective.
C) SPRINT in and out, negating the "reload time" drawback AND preventing xenos from effectively engaging as a xeno is noobtubed.
D) Retreat and treat themselves if they get hit by a SINGLE spitter spit, preventing any alien ranged attacks from being effective.
E) Save eery rocket frame and reload them FOR FREE in the RO's machine, negating the "limited ammo" drawback.
F) Drag around a body-bag full of backpacks of rocket ammo, again negating the "limited ammo" drawback.

THIS is bullshit. I have no problem with the SADAR, and many of these are good, legit strategies, namely A,B, and D. Buut E and F are annoying and lead to unlimited ammo, and C means that xenos have almost no window to attack him as he's never vulnerable, even when attacking.
Nerf the SADAR sprint, so Cancerov can still be effective in driving back xenos and his powergaming, while not getting as many instakills from xenos that have no time to react.

Yeah, i think i know about the round you are talking about, i was playing first as boiler and boris sadar'd my ass because i was not expecting him to cross the river to use the sadar on me, that was MY bad, second time i was playing as spitter and i managed to hug 2 marines near the hive, boris sees me and uses the sadar on me, killing me of course and mortally wounding the two marines that i wantes to pull to the hive, i remember you saying "boris is cancer" or something like that over looc when he did that, it doesn't mean that the sadar is op, he did the best possible thing because i was going to either kill the two marines or pull them to the hive, but he managed to stop it and pull the two marines to the fob, that was just a good play and i know he used macros, probably the same macros i use when i play with the sadar, that same round i had enough of boris, i wen't upgraded runner and i just killed him as soon as i saw him, that same round aliens won, even with an experienced player was using an "op" weapon. just because someone plays well with something doesn't mean that it's broken and that we have to nerf it, the sadar is good at what it does and adds some balance to the game, the sadar used to be better and devs nerfed it, it doesn't need more nerfs just because someone is killed with it.

[Boltersam]

Yeah, i think i know about the round you are talking about, i was playing first as boiler and boris sadar'd my ass because i was not expecting him to cross the river to use the sadar on me, that was MY bad, second time i was playing as spitter and i managed to hug 2 marines near the hive, boris sees me and uses the sadar on me, killing me of course and mortally wounding the two marines that i wantes to pull to the hive, i remember you saying "boris is cancer" or something like that over looc when he did that, it doesn't mean that the sadar is op, he did the best possible thing because i was going to either kill the two marines or pull them to the hive, but he managed to stop it and pull the two marines to the fob, that was just a good play and i know he used macros, probably the same macros i use when i play with the sadar, that same round i had enough of boris, i wen't upgraded runner and i just killed him as soon as i saw him, that same round aliens won, even with an experienced player was using an "op" weapon. just because someone plays well with something doesn't mean that it's broken and that we have to nerf it, the sadar is good at what it does and adds some balance to the game, the sadar used to be better and devs nerfed it, it doesn't need more nerfs just because someone is killed with it.

I'll put it this way.

SADAR gets an actual drawback like all the other weapons (No sprinting in and out while carrying an instakill with AP rocket launcher), and the other weapons get buffed so they're all at the same level of power in their respective fields.

The Smartgun is fairly good, but it needs more ammo because of how much it chews up, for relatively low results.

The B18 is completely negated by huggers and slows you down immensely. Needs a buff, similar to the one detailed in Toroic's suggestion.

The grenade launcher.......We don't talk about the grenade launcher.

The sniper rifle is in a better position than it was, now being able to bring down the hurt from long ranges without accidentally shooting teammates that run in front of you, and is probably equal with the SADAR.

But?
The SADAR has none of the drawbacks they have. Long reloads? Sure. But a SADAR user can run in at full speed with an AP rocket and shove it in someone's face then run away right after, back into the safety of their squad, reload, and repeat. SADAR users need to be slower and more focused on blowing holes in fortifications and defending against Crushers and Queens.

TLDR; Giving the SADAR a drawback (An actual drawback.) will open up more avenues for the OTHER, much less used (Besides the sniper) specialist weapons to be buffed and changed so that they're all in equal standing. Slowing down SADAR users will not stop them from breaking down fortifications, stunning groups of Xenos with HE, knocking Crushers on their asses with AP, but it will stop them from hit-and-running in and out with a weapon that is an instakill for every non-T3, unless they also have a sidearm to finish you off with.

[username123]

I'll put it this way.

SADAR gets an actual drawback like all the other weapons (No sprinting in and out while carrying an instakill with AP rocket launcher), and the other weapons get buffed so they're all at the same level of power in their respective fields.

The Smartgun is fairly good, but it needs more ammo because of how much it chews up, for relatively low results.

The B18 is completely negated by huggers and slows you down immensely. Needs a buff, similar to the one detailed in Toroic's suggestion.

The grenade launcher.......We don't talk about the grenade launcher.

The sniper rifle is in a better position than it was, now being able to bring down the hurt from long ranges without accidentally shooting teammates that run in front of you, and is probably equal with the SADAR.

But?
The SADAR has none of the drawbacks they have. Long reloads? Sure. But a SADAR user can run in at full speed with an AP rocket and shove it in someone's face then run away right after, back into the safety of their squad, reload, and repeat. SADAR users need to be slower and more focused on blowing holes in fortifications and defending against Crushers and Queens.

TLDR; Giving the SADAR a drawback (An actual drawback.) will open up more avenues for the OTHER, much less used (Besides the sniper) specialist weapons to be buffed and changed so that they're all in equal standing. Slowing down SADAR users will not stop them from breaking down fortifications, stunning groups of Xenos with HE, knocking Crushers on their asses with AP, but it will stop them from hit-and-running in and out with a weapon that is an instakill for every non-T3, unless they also have a sidearm to finish you off with.

The sadar has drawbacks, when you wield the sadar xenos focus you for obvious reasons, if you accidentally shoot the sadar to your group in a fight, you kill em all, and if you shoot it at close range, it can cause your death.

[Jroinc1]

Being focused by xenos is NOT a drawback, because you can hide the SADAR on your back, OR stay with your squad, as I mentioned.
Accidentally shooting your team? The round I watched, there were 2 FF incidents (both WP), and the xenos got both players captured, buut they burned to death while infected. Not saying it isn't a drawback, but the only people killed were the ones who couldn't be reached by marines in time. Prob would have gone different with AP (One was a direct hit, so instakill, the other was an indirect, so no damage).
As for shooting it at close range (1 tile), as far as I can see, WP will burn BOTH of you for massive damage to the alien and minimal damage to you, AP will instakill the xeno and leave you unharmed, and HE will stun both of you, possibly breaking bones. Dangerous to you IF YOU'RE ALONE, but otherwise your squad should be able to save you easy.

[Boltersam]

The sadar has drawbacks, when you wield the sadar xenos focus you for obvious reasons,
if you accidentally shoot the sadar to your group in a fight, you kill em all, and if you shoot it at close range, it can cause your death.

I'll do the second one, as: The drawback is for SADARs being able to run up and rambo Xenos at full speed then run back to their squads. Teamplay drawbacks aren't counted because we intend on reducing how easily you can go solo/hit and run back to your squad with the SADAR.

For FFing, 1. Tell your team to get out of the way, or 2. A way to reduce FF would be implemented.

You should really hold your fire if there's a mass of marines fighting the Aliens in front of you, though. If several marines are busy fighting the aliens, you shouldn't tell them to move out of the way, because that just exposes them, they'd probably be too focused on the fighting to see your text in the first place.

If it's one guy running in front of you, you'll be lucky if you loaded an AP or WP round. That, or there'll be a close quarters hit-chance reduction, like with the sniper.

[Snypehunter007]

Asking for dev review.

[Boltersam]

I'm going to give a more present time opinion on the subject.

The SADAR has received a good few nerfs. This would stop it being used in CQC, but it's already dangerous with the slowdown and only one SADAR per round. Neutral.

[Jeser]

Considering we can get only one SADAR now and it was nerfed few times since the times this suggestion was posted, so I'll revert my opinion, this is just not needed anymore, Specs can't now rush'n'gun as it was before, it became too dangerous.

[Bmc777]

The Specialist role is meant to require a bit more thinking than the average Marine. That means FF teammates is the cost of a bad SADAR wielding Specialist. Denied.