Clarify the marine meta rush rule a bit more.

[Joe4444]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):Clarify the marine meta rush rule a little better

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):marines will know when its acceptable to go across the river and when its not.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):Right now, it seems that the meta rush rule is very unclear. What I'm suggesting is that it gets clarified more so marines don't keep braking it and xenos can stop shout "META RUSH REEEEEEE" when a marine steps over the river. This'd help a lot because right now marines are getting shit on for not knowing what is classed a meta rush and what is not.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):Some changes to the rules thread I assume?

[completelynewguy]

From what I've seen from Mchat, there are two main problems with Metarushing.

1. Marines crossing the river.
2. Xenos rushing the Pod and Dropship.

2 is somewhat considered not Metarushing, since Xenos at round start aren't much of a threat; and if I recall correctly, it's also considered a viable tactic.

1 is significantly problematic, since it is likely that a handful of marines are going to be abducted and taken across the river and report where they are. In my experience of pushing past the river, it's all kosher when it's past the 45 minute mark.

Meaning the main problem here is that Marines are metarushing for the sake of realism.

ie: "Command, when can we push past the river? Five squaddies are screaming for rescue and we're already done with securing medbay and hydroponics." ... "Wait, why the fuck do we have to wait until it's been 45 minutes station time?"


EDIT: One possible workaround the metarushing is to possibly make a rule about making it easy for prisoners to escape. Yeah sure, it's pretty fucking retarded. But if the main concern is that the prisoners have been placed deep into the caves - thereby forcing a metarush - then why not make their escape easier? It would remove the need for the captured to go "REEE HELP US!" and forcing a squad to recon/mount a rescue operation.

Two examples I have in mind is "No more checkerboarding," and "Don't spit or slash at hosts into (pain)crit."

[Eenkogneeto]

Xenorushing pod and Dropship is a VERY big problem and should be BANNED in lowpop, it guarantees you take out half the marine forces early on easily. Just because its not viable in highpop doesn't mean it isnt broken in low

[Joe4444]

From what I've seen from Mchat, there are two main problems with Metarushing.

2. Xenos rushing the Pod and Dropship.

2 is somewhat considered not Metarushing, since Xenos at round start aren't much of a threat; and if I recall correctly, it's also considered a viable tactic.

"

that's still retarded,Why is it a "viable tactic" if one side does it but not if the other side does it? why do xenos get a free pass when meta rushing because its a "Viable tactic"

P.S Not having a go at you mate, I know its not you who made it up

[UnknownMurder]

I just see it clearly that clear exceptions to get across the river.

Marines gets kidnapped and dragged across the river and cries for help.
Marine spots a marine being dragged across river to cave and reports to Command.

But, never should you:
Set the cave as your first priority.
Kamikaze into caves.

Not sure what part you don't understand.

[Joe4444]

I just see it clearly that clear exceptions to get across the river.

Marines gets kidnapped and dragged across the river and cries for help.
Marine spots a marine being dragged across river to cave and reports to Command.

But, never should you:
Set the cave as your first priority.
Kamikaze into caves.

Not sure what part you don't understand.

The face that,as you've said,Marines should be allowed to go rescue their comrades before the 1 hour mark. I think we need more clarification on WHY we can't go rescue our friends before a hour is up...

[UnknownMurder]

You should be able to, but your priority must be focusing on the marines not exterminating and going a rampage to slaughter the aliens. I believe that might be the reason why the rule is there.

[Joe4444]

You should be able to, but your priority must be focusing on the marines not exterminating and going a rampage to slaughter the aliens. I believe that might be the reason why the rule is there.

thing is...9/10 times you're gonna have to kill most of the xenos there to get to the marine,as they are genrally nested at the back.
Another thing,might be a little bit off topic,How come xenos can do it and its considered a viable tactic?

[Jay Burns]

This is my interpretation of a meta rush, it might not be exact but its the best i can think of:

the simple rule of meta-rushing is that you don't go past the river if you don't have an RP reason to, for example if a marine rushes straight past the river because he knows where the hive is from a previous round, that's meta because he shouldn't know where it is, but if you keep hearing marines keep getting abducted and being taken to north of the river, that's not meta to scout/cross it. with xenos its sorta the same, for example if a boiler waits and lets the dropship crush it and potentially killing everyone inside that's meta, since xenos shouldn't expect the marines, but if a xeno is just walking by and hears it, that's not meta. So in short they need an RP reason to cross river or wait for dropship otherwise its meta.

[UnknownMurder]

thing is...9/10 times you're gonna have to kill most of the xenos there to get to the marine,as they are genrally nested at the back.
Another thing,might be a little bit off topic,How come xenos can do it and its considered a viable tactic?

Yes. You will have to storm to retrieve the befallen marines. After retrieving said marines, you really should pull back... Also, I haven't paid attention to Xenos. I don't know why Xenos does it, probably to pick off marines and provoke them into engaging the aliens in the caverns as in drawing their attention.

[Joe4444]

This is my interpretation of a meta rush, it might not be exact but its the best i can think of:

the simple rule of meta-rushing is that you don't go past the river if you don't have an RP reason to, for example if a marine rushes straight past the river because he knows where the hive is from a previous round, that's meta because he shouldn't know where it is, but if you keep hearing marines keep getting abducted and being taken to north of the river, that's not meta to scout/cross it. with xenos its sorta the same, for example if a boiler waits and lets the dropship crush it and potentially killing everyone inside that's meta, since xenos shouldn't expect the marines, but if a xeno is just walking by and hears it, that's not meta. So in short they need an RP reason to cross river or wait for dropship otherwise its meta.

but even when marines are taken across the river, staff STILL call it a meta when a marine squad is sent to go get them.
I've talked to two staff members about this, and they both said even IF marines are taken across marines are still not allowed to cross before the hour mark.I think everyone has a different interpretation of the rule, hence why I think it needs a little more clarification.

[Joe4444]

Yes. You will have to storm to retrieve the befallen marines. After retrieving said marines, you really should pull back... Also, I haven't paid attention to Xenos. I don't know why Xenos does it, probably to pick off marines and provoke them into engaging the aliens in the caverns as in drawing their attention.

after the marines storm in and rescue the marines...there's mostly just a couple of runners left, they may as well finish the job,right?

[UnknownMurder]

That's the core of the issue.

[Bigchilly]

I'd just to say, marines NEVER EVER go north of the river, unless following a alien who stole a marine (note that this alien is quite dumb in my opinion, you should never directly go north fleeing from enemies) or is directly attacking them from the north river (Boiler sitting on the north of the river, marines in the south). Or as stated in many cases, 5-8 marines are stolen and a YELLING or SCREAMING for help, but marines are not able to go save them, as the rules PREVENT this. So why are aliens aloud to RUSH into the POD & SHUTTLE?

We will never know. . .

[TopHatPenguin]

I want to agree with this but from my point of view the meta rushing rule needs to heavily re-done because in it's current state it disrupts Ic interactions and punishes marines for listening to a captured marine shouting for help over the radio, granted said marine could have been a rambo but they also might not have been. It really comes down to the fact that as soon as a marine or a couple of marines are taken they are given pretty much the silent treatment from the majority of marines not captured as everyone knows that nothing can be done to save the captured marines due to our meta rush rule so it falls down to this awkward category of ic interactions over the radio, some players try to console the over player through their ic character interaction others ignore them knowing that nothing can be done and really who blames them for ignoring them as it pretty much breaks the ic Rp as anyone hearing screams over the radio (Especially as it's early on as well when the majority of marines are alive) of a comrade is going to want to get them back or atleast try and save them. It honestly gets worse with interaction between command and the squads especially when command asks something along the lines of "Why aren't you and your men trying to save those marines?" which leads to a stumbling for words or an excuse being made up as to why this can't happen.

Sadly I lack a solution to this problem besides having comms jammed.

EDIT: Just adding to this that everyone interprets the metarush rule differently but all with the understanding that crossing the river is a no go for some time, just it becomes questionable when marines have an ic justification but can't actually act on it.

[masterspots]

Problem is each member of staff has a different idea of the rule...

[Eenkogneeto]

MY personal solution to ICly not rushing across the river to save marines is 'How the fuck did an unconscious person learn they were dragged north into caves we don't even know about?' Until proven otherwise I assume they were kidnapped /under/ ground due to the fact that tunnels are the most common method of dragging a marine to the caves.
And only a absolute moron would want to go tunnel fighting xenos.

[Kerek]

MY personal solution to ICly not rushing across the river to save marines is 'How the fuck did an unconscious person learn they were dragged north into caves we don't even know about?' Until proven otherwise I assume they were kidnapped /under/ ground due to the fact that tunnels are the most common method of dragging a marine to the caves.
And only a absolute moron would want to go tunnel fighting xenos.

Command can see where people are, besides in my opinion SL's should have like a crew monitor so they can see where their squad is.

[Snypehunter007]

Duplicate: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=8524

Asking this to be locked.

[forwardslashN]

Duplicate.