Note Correction/Appeal

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Zelkova64
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Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 22:28

Your Byond ID: zelkova64

Character Name: Jackson A. Hargrave

What other servers do you play on?
Paradise
Are you now or have you been banned on any servers? Which ones?
No Bans


Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):
/None
Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc):Note In question
Extremely heavy warning. Decapped an SO after a mutiny, claimed - they were only using their knife because their weapon wasnt working, and - they hadnt realised that they were targetting the head, despite them slashing the head above 10 times. by Jaketeaking (TrialAdmin) on Tue, October 23rd of 2018

Before I begin, I understand Notes typically don't get removed or possibly updated, However I wanted to try considering the situation

My request that this note be corrected to show the context of what had happened. as 420Myk/ Alice'Snow'Falkner recommends I place this here after discussing the event and notes on my account.

After the mutiny. Several others came onto the bridge and started shooting up everyone (AFTER Assuming good positions to do so.) Using shotguns and SMG's in an attempt to quickly kill anyone they could. My combat intent was still set to take hostages instead of killing (Which I forgot and almost never use, Hence why my guns were not working to my own perception) And I was targeting the head prior for healing/bandaging. Switching to my knife after trying and failing to take several shots due to the hostage mode. I proceeded to then stab the nearest LT until they went down, Lost in the moment the beheading was accidental. I even took the rest of the round to try and discuss this with said person, However they (According to Jaketeaking) had disconnected from the server at the time of their death. (I can only assume at this time that it was either because their attempt at murdering the bridge failed. Or were simply upset to have died)

Several people were banned in this fiasco, If i'm not mistaken the XO included. And while i'm glad I was not involved with a ban, I would like this note to atleast include the context as it sounds far worse that it was at the time. I wont deny that the beheading itself was wrong, even if accidental. I just want it on record for full context course.

I wanted to talk to Jaketeaking about this directly, But at the time of writing this, The last time I saw him online/discord was in October. And searching his name on the Discord Server shows his last message (on discord) being on 10/27/2018 on the CM Server, So i'm unsure how to go about this. Thank you for your time.

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420MYK
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by 420MYK » 21 Nov 2018, 22:36

I did have zelkova approach me and ask for his notes/discuss with him about the note in question. I recommended the appeal and hope i was correct in sending him here. I didn't see the round in question but after reading the note and then hearing his
side of the story i think some log diving is needed to confirm which i'm more than happy to do myself. Usually notes wouldn't get looked at but he has also expressed concern about it seeing as its a rather hefty note with no context which i agree with and could and no doubt would effect any future dealings such as Whitelist/staff applications (He has expressed interest in these but this isn't the place).
Noxus Poppy is bae.

In game character name:Alice 'Snow' Falkner. Lar'ja H'chak


I may do stupid shit sometimes, but were marines its what we do. Always saving, rarely saved. Piss lead and blow shit up until you die. Rinse and repeat.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by taketheshot56 » 21 Nov 2018, 22:50

Zelkova is not the average troublemaker and follows the rules quite well, i think this is simply the case where some context could be used.
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Survivor » 21 Nov 2018, 22:54

I was actually a witness to this. The Staff Officer was dead on the ground after getting gunned down. You walked up to him when he was already dead for a good few seconds and slashed him until he got decapped.


Now that could have been an accident, but I remember an incident the very next day where there was a mutiny against the CO for BEing the CL for trying to kill him. After the CO was dead, and everyone stopped shooting, you walked up to me and point blanked me, causing an entirely new fire fight within the CIC. I honestly don't know if I can believe that you accidently decapped the Lt. as you did similar things soon after.


Take it as you will, I'm not in charge of these notes.


Edit: I'm thinking back, it may not have been the next day, but both events were pretty close to eachother.
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Zelkova64
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 23:03

Survivor wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 22:54
I was actually a witness to this. The Staff Officer was dead on the ground after getting gunned down. You walked up to him when he was already dead for a good few seconds and slashed him until he got decapped.


Now that could have been an accident, but I remember an incident the very next day where there was a mutiny against the CO for BEing the CL for trying to kill him. After the CO was dead, and everyone stopped shooting, you walked up to me and point blanked me, causing an entirely new fire fight within the CIC. I honestly don't know if I can believe that you accidently decapped the Lt. as you did similar things soon after.


Take it as you will, I'm not in charge of these notes.


Edit: I'm thinking back, it may not have been the next day, but both events were pretty close to eachother.
I honestly dont quite remember the latter event as much, I do recall being in pain and unable to see for alot of it due to the alpha nade spec, And people on comms calling to fight still.As well as the aliens having landed/landing shortly at the time. I do know several people including me were calling for violence for 'not getting the memo' To which I do personally apologize for if its the case.

Also I dont think anyone tried to stop me despite shouting several times to kill the CO. While being in range for you to hear it. Just as a point.

Edit: Also as far as the first event goes, I didn't realize he was dead. I was just reacting on my small laptop screen

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Survivor » 21 Nov 2018, 23:06

Zelkova wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:03
I honestly dont quite remember the latter event as much, I do recall being in pain and unable to see for alot of it due to the alpha nade spec, And people on comms calling to fight still.As well as the aliens having landed/landing shortly at the time. I do know several people including me were calling for violence for 'not getting the memo' To which I do personally apologize for if its the case.

Also I dont think anyone tried to stop me despite shouting several times to kill the CO. While being in range for you to hear it. Just as a point.
I was the B18 spec. The Commander was already dead, and the shooting had ceased. You walked up to me and shot point blanked me when I was talking to someone, even after the dropship was about to crash and there was no point. This caused the deaths of another dozen people.



Edit: I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't think you understood the mutiny rules at the time. The note isn't that bad. You are a good player, and I'm sure it won't make any difference to you.
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Zelkova64
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 23:08

Survivor wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:06
I was the B18 spec. The Commander was already dead, and the shooting had ceased. You walked up to me and shot point blanked me when I was talking to someone, even after the dropship was about to crash and there was no point. This caused the deaths of another dozen people.
I dont remember going after you, I do remember shouting to kill the CO, constantly. I wasnt trying to hide it. If I PB'd you, Im sure I was aiming at the CO and you may have been next to him. Either way, Being between Pain and unable to see much, I personally thought the munity was on and nobody corrected or stopped me.
Last edited by Zelkova64 on 21 Nov 2018, 23:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Survivor » 21 Nov 2018, 23:09

Zelkova wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:08
I dont remember going after you, I do remember shouting to kill the CO, constantly. I wasnt trying to hide it. If I PD'd you, Im sure I was aiming at the CO and you may have been next to him. Either way, Being between Pain and unable to see much, I personally thought the munity was on and nobody corrected or stopped me.
The CO was decapitated already. Basically, he was already perma dead. And if he was on the ground, and you were aiming for him, that would basically break the rule you are appealing your note for.
Last edited by Survivor on 21 Nov 2018, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
"Sorry, but... I'm the only winner in this story." - Commander Pierce Jackson

Commodore Pierce Jackson/Jack "Survivor" Lance

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Young Blood Ha'ju Vagear

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Zelkova64
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 23:11

Survivor wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:09
The CO was decapitated already.
I think we may be thinking of different instances then, I remember the CO was standing up/falling over. If so I apologize for the confusion. Either way, The only 3(maybe 4) Mutiny's I have been in, Have been chaos and I never intend to break the rules or for IC Reasons.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 23:13

Survivor wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:09
The CO was decapitated already. Basically, he was already perma dead. And if he was on the ground, and you were aiming for him, that would basically break the rule you are appealing your note for.
My appeal is for a different situation than that.

Not the time the CO was decapitated but an LT in a prior round. Also I did not Decap the CO in the later round. I dont know how or if that happened. I dont remember seeing a CO decapitated and think we are talking about different rounds.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Survivor » 21 Nov 2018, 23:16

Zelkova wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:13
My appeal is for a different situation than that.

Not the time the CO was decapitated but an LT in a prior round. Also I did not Decap the CO in the later round. I dont know how or if that happened. I dont remember seeing a CO decapitated and think we are talking about different rounds.
I understand. Its a completely different situation, and I don't want to change the subject. I brought it up because it was easily comparable to the other mutiny rule break.


And I know we were talking about the same rounds, because you were the Charlie Sniper, and I was the Alpha B18.


I'm not gonna respond to any more of these, because I don't want to turn your appeal into a debate thread. I just wanted to put my eyewitness account.
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 23:19

Survivor wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:16
I understand. Its a completely different situation, and I don't want to change the subject. I brought it up because it was easily comparable to the other mutiny rule break.


And I know we were talking about the same rounds, because you were the Charlie Sniper, and I was the Alpha B18.


I'm not gonna respond to any more of these, because I don't want to turn your appeal into a debate thread. I just wanted to put my eyewitness account.
Just as a side note, I was not a charlie sniper in that round. I have only been a sniper on 2 rounds in 6 months. I was actually not even a Spec. (Last time I was a sniper spec was an LV map within the last week. Prior to that, 2 Months ago.) I was a Delta SL with a shotgun. So I think you may be mistaking someone else if there was a sniper spec involved.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Survivor » 21 Nov 2018, 23:20

Zelkova wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:19
Just as a side note, I was not a charlie sniper in that round. I have only been a sniper on 2 rounds in 6 months. I was actually not even a Spec. (Last time I was a sniper spec was an LV map within the last week. Prior to that, 2 Months ago.) I was a Delta SL with a shotgun. So I think you may be mistaking someone else if there was a sniper spec involved.
Right. It was Ice Colony, yeah? You looked like the Charlie Sniper that round, my bad. I do know it was the round, because you mentioned B18 spec.
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 21 Nov 2018, 23:30

Survivor wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 23:20
Right. It was Ice Colony, yeah? You looked like the Charlie Sniper that round, my bad. I do know it was the round, because you mentioned B18 spec.
The last ice round I was spec I was a B18, And honestly I sucked bad. the only kills I got were two runners using claymores. :( I admit to have horrible Aim. I try to stick to roles where I can use a flamer or support role because i do have a hard time with reflexes and such weapons. (For example, I cant use shotguns as well as others.) Due to an old hand injury.

Edit: And this was about 3 weeks ago. Last sniper spec on Ice was in the month(s) ranges ago on low population with no mutiny. I do remember killing a drone and a larva.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by 420MYK » 21 Nov 2018, 23:46

Pulling logs now.
Noxus Poppy is bae.

In game character name:Alice 'Snow' Falkner. Lar'ja H'chak


I may do stupid shit sometimes, but were marines its what we do. Always saving, rarely saved. Piss lead and blow shit up until you die. Rinse and repeat.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by 420MYK » 22 Nov 2018, 00:41

Logs:
► Show Spoiler
Noxus Poppy is bae.

In game character name:Alice 'Snow' Falkner. Lar'ja H'chak


I may do stupid shit sometimes, but were marines its what we do. Always saving, rarely saved. Piss lead and blow shit up until you die. Rinse and repeat.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by 420MYK » 22 Nov 2018, 00:48

After reading and pulling the logs honestly, yes zelkova took it too far and didn't stop after they had died, But its not like they're the sole reason the decap happened. Not to point fingers at all because the decap is no one single persons fault but stones and glass houses survivor.

Also to correct what i said earlier i was actually in this round observing etc.
Noxus Poppy is bae.

In game character name:Alice 'Snow' Falkner. Lar'ja H'chak


I may do stupid shit sometimes, but were marines its what we do. Always saving, rarely saved. Piss lead and blow shit up until you die. Rinse and repeat.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by starmute » 22 Nov 2018, 01:24

Looked into this and log dived.

In the dive I saw that Zelkova was extremely remorseful about the situation. Everything that Jake said is factually true however I believe the note should be expanded to include more information (for example the SO in question was extremely new which probably didn't help).

It could be expanded upon since it was a rare and crazy situation.
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Zelkova64 » 22 Nov 2018, 02:39

Like I said in the beginning, I'm not looking for the note to be removed. What I did was too much, even in tunnel vision self defense from a crazy situation that had multiple rule breaks from multiple people. I just want the note to be amended to be more accurate in context/why because it looks alot more harsh than I personally believe it should. and I hope others agree.

Edit: And I would like to take the time to thank 420MYK for taking the time out of his day to look through the logs for this. I'm sure its not as fun as it sounds.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by Survivor » 22 Nov 2018, 03:05

Zelkova wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 02:39
Like I said in the beginning, I'm not looking for the note to be removed. What I did was too much, even in tunnel vision self defense from a crazy situation that had multiple rule breaks from multiple people. I just want the note to be amended to be more accurate in context/why because it looks alot more harsh than I personally believe it should. and I hope others agree.

Edit: And I would like to take the time to thank 420MYK for taking the time out of his day to look through the logs for this. I'm sure its not as fun as it sounds.
That makes more sense. Sorry for the arguments earlier, yeah I wouldn't mind if your note had more context.
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by CCRWasHere » 22 Nov 2018, 05:30

I remember this mutiny. I was one of the leaders - Julian 'Jules' Petrov; I think I was the one that sent the ahelp listing the names and the reason for the mutiny.

As it was a month ago, so my recollection is foggy.
I was sitting in front of the communications computer writing a command announcement (the mutiny was over - there was no more combat) when I hear someone getting stabbed.

Prying my eyes of the monitor, I saw Jackson A. Hargrave repeatedly stabbing a downed staff officer in the head. I believe he was already down before you started your knifing.

Others in the CIC shouted for you to stop, and I even explicitly yelled:
420MYK wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 00:41
Logs:
► Show Spoiler
But you didn't. You just kept hacking and hacking and hacking away, and only stopped when the poor bastard's head was finally clean off his shoulders. I got a feeling you knew he was dead, and was seeking a permanent kill.

But hey, that's just me.
Julian 'Jules' Petrov | MARINE

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by CCRWasHere » 22 Nov 2018, 05:37

Also, I believe I may have been the one to ahelp about you breaking the "Perma-killing is forbidden" rule after you severed the staff officer's head.

You were the only one doing any form of attacking after my mutiny had been successful. In hindsight, I feel I should have stopped you, but I thought you were just a simple griefer.
Standard protocol is to ahelp the matter and to not take it into your own hands, so I did.
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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by ThesoldierLLJK » 22 Nov 2018, 05:40

It was a warning, I am of the opinion that you’re lucky you got a warning at that.

Not sure why it needs to be corrected. Accidental or intentional you’re responsible for what you target.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by freemysoul » 22 Nov 2018, 07:46

Seems pretty clear-cut here, be a SMALL mistake saying you targetted the head even though targetting the eyes is the same as targetting the head with a knife. However you still permanently killed that person, you still broke a rule, You're still at fault for targetting the head/eyes (Why would even be targetting the anywhere on the head anyway, it's less accurate), People even told you ICly and LOOCly to stop and you didn't.

And I think if you look at your notes you can agree with me, that's it time to man up, shape up and follow the rules:

Code: Select all

As Queen, Metagamed with orders to the hive about the Almayer as they were on the dropship (such as where to go and that the tank couldn't go to the upper floor). There wasn't a xeno on the Almayer that round (or at least, they didn't mention one when questioned). I warned them about metagaming and they apologized.
by on Tue, July 10th of 2018

Married to [redacted] and shares the same IP.
by  on Tue, July 10th of 2018

Warned for lite +18, Elder Queen: 'Build the wall thicker than my ass!~'
by on Thu, September 27th of 2018

Unintentionally hid a corpse, Was able to grab it and hide it because it was infected. Warned to avoid this in the future.
by on Fri, September 28th of 2018

Extremely heavy warning. Decapped an SO after a mutiny, claimed - they were only using their knife because their weapon wasnt working, and - they hadnt realised that they were targetting the head, despite them slashing the head above 10 times.
by on Tue, October 23rd of 2018

Ban on next offence.
by on Tue, October 23rd of 2018
Semi Accepted, the original note will REMAIN, however amendment note will be made.

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Re: Note Correction/Appeal

Post by freemysoul » 22 Nov 2018, 07:52

Edit to last post: This is an exception to this case, We DO NOT normally allow appealing of notes.

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