Unban Appeal - Lewis Calhoun

[Redfield5]

Beyond ID: Redfield5.

Admin who banned you: N/A (Not an Admin; was banned by a TrialMod: Vrai)

Initial Duration: 24hrs.

Duration Remaining: 24hrs.

Reason for Ban: Griefer: Hit a LO with a bottle then proceeded to punch and stab the Lo. Was killed by the Lo wh had retaliated in self defense..

Your Appeal, including evidence (Please create an Imgur album if you have multiple screenshots): I don't have evidence, but what I have is a critique of our community's response to grief, and how the definition of the word 'grief' has been altered to suit the self-serving needs of some adminstrative figures who feel that there should be a 'quota' for bans. When I began playing SS13 almost 8 years ago, grief was a common thing. Grief was nothing more than a random, second-degree killing with no justifiable motive. It was merely sport-killing, in layman's terms. It was frowned upon; in my day, you had to have a valid reason to kill someone. For example, medical malpractice, security abuse, harassment; these were all valid RP reasons to commit a murder, but now, grief has become something else.

Grief is now nothing more than an umbrella term used by certain people to describe any and all killings that they do not sanction. Why should all of the killing be sanctioned, and killing unsanctioned by the administration be grief? I'm not saying that senseless killing should be allowed, nor am I saying that all reasons to commit murder are good. Is it because you're tired of the adminhelps that you could so easily mute?

What I am saying is that murder - when done correctly - can be a valuable RP tool, used to spice up the RP. You've got Marines on the Nostromo, duking it out. You've got a shitty LO, harassing the Janitor he demoted. He steals his cart, he insults him, he shoves him around and assaults him, and guess what? Maybe that janitor Lew Calhoun - a fellow who has been to Hell and back, and one who refuses to take shit from anyone - has had enough. Maybe, he is tired of no one handling that piece of shit LO, who constantly harasses him and assaults him. He takes matters into his own hands the only way he knows how: by letting his training take over. He attacks the LO, and they get into a heated fight. The LO has body armor, and an armored beret protecting him from the gunfire and blows, and the LO fells his enemy.

Crying grief, the TrialMod on duty decides to ban Lew, citing him as a griefer and thus interfering in the RP dynamic. I say allow murder! Allow all of it! Allow it until the station is engulfed in blood and carrion! With the fall of decent RP and the departure of some of our seasoned RP'ers, why should we abide by the status quo?

[Lostmixup]

With the fall of decent RP and the departure of some of our seasoned RP'ers, why should we abide by the status quo?

This quote though.

[Adjective]

You were banned because you had decided to smash a bottle over a LO's head and then stab him with it continuously. I was being generous in only giving you a 24 Hour ban. You are here to directly complain about a rule, because you neglect to read and follow the rules as they are.

This is the rule that you have broken-

Griefing - Defined as the perceived intent of one player wanting to cause grief to other players or to the server without any roleplay or reason. The emphasis is on "intent". If an admin determines that the player's intent is to break roleplay, the player should expect swift retribution. Any damage to the station or players caused by griefing can be repaired at an Admin's discretion.
Examples of Griefing:
A marine grabs a gun and immediately starts shooting other marines for no reason.
A player attempts to break the ship or release the singularity for no reason.
Harming other players (of the same species) at the end of the round. Marine vs Xeno is fine.

Your reasoning for doing so was that the Lo was "Harassing you". His harassment is considered okay in the RP. you deciding to inflict lethal force because of a Disarm (Non-Lethal) is not. Rather than take matters into your own hands, you should have spoken with either the Commander, or a Military Policeman.

[apophis775]

Despite your "critique".

You broke a rule. Lethal force in the manner you used, is Mostly Forbidden.

That being said, the moment that the LO shot at you, was the EXACT MOMENT, he forfeited the right to claim grief, as per Marine rule 1, which states:

"Lethal Force - Simply, the in-character or roleplay equivalent of griefing, but not treated the same. Defined as one marine purposefully using a lethal weapon (gun, sharp object, explosive, etc) or beating into critical/death another marine for a roleplay or in-character reason. A marine using lethal force against another marine is forfeiting any and all Admin assistance for that incident.
Admin assistance - Defined as any action taken by an Admin to heal or aid in a player's negative state.
The bottom line: If you use lethal force, you're on your own, even if you're defending yourself."

As, the LO fired back, I believe that this falls under one of the exceptions for General Rule 1, specifically:
"Two consenting marines want to roleplay a situation that ends with them attacking or killing each other."

Thus, I believe that, the LO drawing a weapon and shooting at (and killing) you, proves his consent.

HOWEVER. Had the LO NOT attacked you back, and had instead stood there and Ahelped or run away, or attempted to stop you through non-lethal methods (or even critting you and calling for admin help), then he would NOT have been consenting to a "fight to the death".

As a result, I'm going to lift this ban.


2 marines fighting, in what appears to be an RP situation like this, DOES appear to not break the rules.

I'll warn you though, to be careful. EVERYONE of our staff, is on EXTRA GUARD and on edge, as Greytide 2015 sweeps the SS13 community. If you've never run a server, or worked as staff your probably not fully aware of it, but there is a nearly 200% increase in griefing, shenanigans, tomfoolery, bullshit, and trolling Between June and August, as all the newblets are out of school and have free time to be fuckfaces. As such, staff is more likely to take the fastest action possible to deal with a possible threat, purely becuase of the OVERWHELMING amount of ahelps and situations we are handling. I know that earlier, there were around 7 bans, in a period of about 3 hours, and our server, was hit fairly light. In SS13 Host chat, there's talk of some servers having banned 10+ PER HOUR.

My advice to you, for similar situations, is to Ahelp your intentions before you take action like that, so your covered as NOT a griefer, at least until the Greytide wanes in a few weeks.

[Adjective]

Note has been removed as requested.

[Officialjake]

self-serving needs of some adminstrative figures who feel that there should be a 'quota' for bans.

I just want to make it very clear that there has not been and never will be a 'quota' for bans. Such a thing has never come up in any staff discussion and it never will.

[SASoperative]

This seems to have been resolved, If no more imput is given in the next 8 hours I will move this topic.

[UnknownMurder]

...Hm. If I probably remember correctly..

Redfield was one of our staffs.