RavingManiac's Command Jobban Appeal

[RavingManiac]

Byond ID
RavingManiac

Character name
Smoke Carter

Admin who banned you
Biolock

Duration and scope
Banned from command positions, corporate liaison and requisitions. Indefinite.

Reason for ban
"Banned from Commander, Executive Officer, Bridge Officer, Military Police, Sulaco Chief Medical Officer, Corporate Liason, Requisitions Officer - Continuiously acts as military police while playing as a command officer. This wouldn't even be a problem if he didn't end up killing the players EVERY single time. (Military Police has not been included in the ban)"

Your appeal, including evidence
I wasn't able to clarify my intent fully with the banning admin due to time constraints, so my explanation (and apology) is as follows.

Basically, when dealing with rogue liaisons and bridge officers, I would attempt to confront them personally. This would theoretically entail holding them at gunpoint, and having the MPs arrest them. Due to complications, e.g. the target continuing to move or fight back despite being aimed at, this tended to result in the target being shot multiple times before succumbing to their wounds.

The end result looked like I was attempting to play a homocidal MP, though I was actually attempting to act out an IC vendetta or sorts. Seeing that this approach has tended to result in minor bloodbaths, I can understand why it ran afoul of the server rules, and have resolved to let the MPs do their job should I be placed in similar situations again. If anyone's round was ruined by this, I apologize.

Unfortunately, I was not able to save logs due to persistent issues with screen freezing and disconnecting.

[Biolock]

Alright, here is the thing. I don't actually know how warranted this job ban is because, as you said, your intent was never fully explained. I was fairly certain you were likely a more considerate player than those events led the players around you to believe. I banned you more on principle than anything else; two rounds in a row, as a bridge officer/ XO, you took it into your hands to 'arrest' a player by doing what you clearly explained, BOTH times leading to the player being killed. The second round you even killed the same player twice with the same method. It's not that I believe you're malicious, it's that I believe there is something that you're not understanding, something I'm not explaining properly. I'm glad you appealed so quickly, I'd like to get some other staff member's input on this. I'm also incredibly tired at the moment, so I hope those thoughts all threaded together as well as I hope.

[Biolock]

Also, I hate bringing this up because I play the character (I by no means hold a grudge), but on a separate occasion you decided to, wordlessly and without provocation, throw a knife at ME (Alex Crossman) because I was apparently a suspect of mutiny. I bring that up for no reason other than to display a perfect example of you performing military police duties while military police are available; there is no provocation (I was beyond confused and actually thought you threw the knife by accident); and there is no duress (no one was in trouble and I wasn't even armed). Please keep that incident in mind during your response. And again, I hold zero grudge, I didn't even pm you about that incident (though mostly because I don't like pming players about things done against ME if I can just shrug it off).

[RavingManiac]

That particular incident was, honestly, a pretty big fuckup on my part. Aiming at someone with a gun, sure, but starting an arrest by throwing a knife at them is pretty bad in hindsight.

[Biolock]

You seem like a good guy, I'm all for lifting this ban, but I'd like to hear some other staff member's input first.

[RavingManiac]

To clarify again, the sequence of events by which the person died was this:
1. I aim at rogue officer/liason with lethal weapon, expecting him to surrender
2. Person moves, and gets shot
3. Continues to move, keeps getting shot, eventually falls over
4. Person is cuffed by MPs, attempts to run while in cuffs, gets shot again

I usually play on baystation, where getting aimed at, or badly wounded, usually results in a straightforward arrest. Kinda assumed that it would be the same here.

Edit: Another thing. I set the fire rate to continue to fire, instead of the default. I assumed that this meant that I would continue aiming at the target even after the first shot. Looking back, it may have actually meant that I would continue to FIRE, meaning that the guy only had move once to get shot many times. Is that the case? I starting to think I fucked up there.

[apophis775]

What you might not understand, is that if your command staff, you are not an MP. In fact, the Bridge Officer job CLEARLY STATES: You're not an MP. You will not enforce Marine Law.

With the evidence presented, I'm not sure we should lift this ban, because it seems like you haven't read our rule.

ONLY MPs should be enforcing Marine law. CO/XO "maybe", but you shouldn't be throwing knives at people.

Also, using lethal force against a marine is AGAINST THE RULES. Even if they move and that's why you shoot, YOU are responsible. I mean, you should only be using the shitty pistol, so I'm not sure WHAT weapon you used to kill people so many times.

I'm against removing this ban, until you've played on the server more, and learn the rules.

[RavingManiac]

The weapon used was the revolver.

I did know the rule, but had the impression that "personal" confrontations (i.e. the XO attempting a mutiny, liaison acting illegally) were an exception to it. I know that that's not the case now.

I'm happy enough if the ban is just made temporary instead of indefinite, so that there isn't the hassle of making another appeal down the line when much is forgotten.

[Biolock]

Job bans can only be permanent. I am lassie-fair now, your fate rests with apop.

[RavingManiac]

The specific incident where I was banned happens to be described by the person playing an MP involved here, in a complaint about the player whose character I shot.

This is over 2 rounds. Lcass in the first one attempted to coup the bridge staff as a Bridge Officer. He then attempted to fight the bridge staff when they declined him. Apparently shots were fired and he ended up in surgery. This is all hearsay as I was not there to witness it. What I did see was when Lcass attempted to gather weapons and supplies to go arrest someone at gun point. I then arrested him (I was a MP) and brought him to the brig to discuss it. Then when told to brig him, I did so whereupon I lagged out and he got my stun baton. He used it on me and attempted to escape until another Bridge Officer (Smoke Carter) showed up and shot him dead. I then, upon prompting by the Bridge Officer, cloned Lcass and put him back in the brig at which point Biolock, a Mod, came told me to make it permanent as it was clear to him that he was going to keep trying to kill Smoke. I then came back later when Smoke was holding him at gunpoint outside of his cell. When I attempted an arrest, Lcass moved prompting the gun to fire, thus killing him a second time. Smoke was then jobbanned from command himself as he had done all of this without another officer present and some other stuff, doesn't matter. The round ended with Lcass in jail.

[Sgtkumar]

As the MP in question, I found it odd when I found the prisoner outside of his cell when he was supposed to be there permanently (I even gave a radio call to all MPs about it). I was called by Smoke regarding something going on in the brig. When I arrived, he indeed did have his weapon aimed at the prisoner as described. After the prisoner was dispatched, I inquired as to WHY the prisoner was outside of his cell, he stated that the prisoner required medicine and he let him out to do so. I again stated how terrible that was ESPECIALLY without backup at which point Biolock asked me to make sure he went and demoted himself. The round ended maybe 50 seconds later.

Now personally, I'd forgive him for the first death. He was protecting me from a crazed prisoner. The second time though was completely preventable and inexcuseable as an MP, but as a bridge officer, it shouldn't have even happened.

Experience: 5 years of adminning for LLA and Founding Father of Perseus (Whitelisted Private Military Corporation)

[RavingManiac]

What happened was that he had apparently been sedated by the medical staff after being cloned. I went and got a syringe of anti-toxin from the medbay, idea being to toss it in the cell for him to self-administer. As soon as I opened the cell doors, he charged out.

The reason for doing that was that I was interested in talking to the guy, given that I had no idea why he tried a coup and jailbreak. Plus, if he did break out, it was more of an IC issue that might make for an interesting situation.

[Sgtkumar]

Two things, very unrelated to the appeal, but I feel I must express regardless. One, ALWAYS FLASH A PRISONER WHEN THEY ARE GETTING THINGS. Two, ALWAYS HAVE BACKUP (Unless you're the commander of a paramilitary PMC armed with an array of nonlethal fighting equiptment)

[SASoperative]

As Apop has stated here against the appeal AT THE MOMENT. Note that in the future If you make this again and I see progress than I would have no problems with revoking this.

[SASoperative]

This has been resolved and will be moved in approximately 10 hours

[RavingManiac]

When would be a good time to make the second appeal?

[apophis775]

Once you've proven you understand that you shouldn't be enforcing marine law?