Get shot into crit just after joining, return fire, BANNED

[ForcefulCJS]

Byond ID: ForcefulCJS

Character name: Jack Robustin

Admin who banned you: secretstamos

Initial duration: 1440min

Duration remaining: 1438min

Reason for ban (EXACTLY what it says when you try to log in): Griefer

Your appeal, including evidence (an http://www.imgur.com album is recommended for multiple screenshots):

1) Wake up from cryo sleep

2) Put on gear in squad area

3) Round ends, cheering ensues

4) August W. Walker picks up a gun and starts shooting me in the head

5) I return fire

6) MP walks in and helps Walker kill me

7) Instantly banned for being a grief without any notice


Seriously? This is how you get people to stop playing your server. I've been playing SS13 for 5+ years and thought it was WIDELY understood that any decent server doesn't ban without trying to contact a player for their side of the story. Instead you have SHITuations like this where you ban the fucking victim and one, possibly two, griefers don't even get reported because I was banned before I could even finish my own adminhelp.

[ForcefulCJS]

Well I'm new here, I understood "no end round grief" but I didn't think that meant "defending yourself will get you daybanned without warning".

Also apparently I'm supposed to mention I'm not a multikeyer.

[Feweh]

As stated above, you're not to attack anyone at the end of round.. even if it's in self defense.
Logically here, at the end of the round does it really matter if you're killed?

Usually it's only a 3hour ban, have to wait for Josh to clear up why it was more than 3 hours.

[Jack McIntyre]

If I step in here, I believe this was during the round that we got hit hard by griefers and we told everyone to not attack one another and if you got shot at to a-help and not fight back because it made logs harder to see who was just doing self defense and such. Easier if you just a-help us so we can deal with it.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

Hi there,

I understand where you're coming from. But as far as the rules are concerned, shooting or attacking anything after the round end is considered griefing. So the ban itself is valid.
However, I do agree with you on the length. I should have only banned you for three hours instead of a day. That was a mistake on my part.

The guy who attacked you was also banned. But I believe your ban should be reduced from what I originally set it as.


I apologize for the inconvenience. We've been having a really rough night tonight..

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

The ban has been reduced.

[SASoperative]

The ban should be a 3 hour ban and no more if it was End of round grief. That is if you have no prior offenses.

[apophis775]

Well I'm new here, I understood "no end round grief" but I didn't think that meant "defending yourself will get you daybanned without warning".

Also apparently I'm supposed to mention I'm not a multikeyer.

If the round was over, it should have been a 3 hour ban, not a day-ban. And when you join the server, it says to READ THE RULES and that ignorance is not an excuse. We typically don't contact people who EORG as it delays the round for others. Standard procedure is if you make a combat log after the round ends and it pops up for us in the logs, you get a 3 hour ban.

[ForcefulCJS]

Then the rules should be clearer that even self-defense in post-round is an autoban. I read the rules multiple times before playing. It says right in the rules for griefing:

"The emphasis is on "intent"."

Clearly shooting a griefer in self-defense is not someone with an intent to grief.

Not to be rude, but write the rules better if you're going to condescend to me and tell me to read them.

[Jack McIntyre]

Right if I may be bold to point out, I would read the other rules up top that says to respect staff. Secondly if you read the rules they are pretty clear, No End of Round Grief, if you shoot no matter what the case you will be banned. We always tell everyone if you are griefed then a-help, don't try to solve it on your own otherwise you don't get any assistance from us. It makes looking in the logs harder on our side. Just my two cents here lad, however I will urge you to show respect to at least the person who pays so you can play this lovely server we all share. Cheers and all that.

[apophis775]

Then the rules should be clearer that even self-defense in post-round is an autoban. I read the rules multiple times before playing. It says right in the rules for griefing:

"The emphasis is on "intent"."

Clearly shooting a griefer in self-defense is not someone with an intent to grief.

Not to be rude, but write the rules better if you're going to condescend to me and tell me to read them.

I'm in no more do deal with stupid shits today.

You obvious DID NOT read the rules, as your case, is an EXACT EXAMPLE in the rules:

Harming other players (of the same species) at the end of the round. Marine vs Xeno is fine. End of Round Grief is an IMMEDIATE 3 hour ban with no warnings

I'm not rewriting shit because your too lazy to read the ENTIRE RULES and stop reading after a single word and didn't read 4 more lines.

It's FAIRLY FUCKING CLEAR.

[ForcefulCJS]

I read the "intent" stuff into that rule and made those assumptions. It seems weird to say "intent in the emphasis" and then one of your examples should be read to completely ignore intent.

I'm not trying to offend you, I don't think you need to change the underlying rule, just add to the example (EVEN IN SELF DEFENSE).

Part of the reason its confusing is because its listed as an example of GRIEFING, when the purpose of the rule is simply to prevent cluttering the end-round logs (didn't know that until today). Nobody in their right mind would call shooting in self-defense a form of griefing.

So yes, I read the rules carefully, but since shooting in self defense isn't griefing and isn't an example of "bad intent", I didn't think that the example you mentioned included ALL harm, but rather the standard griefer (like the one who shot me) just shooting the place up post-round. The example you mentioned refers to "end of round grief", which again, no ordinary gamer would interpret to mean "shooting a griefer in self-defense".

So my suggestion would be to move the EOG rule outside of the grief rule and make it clear that its a combat log issue and not a grief issue, or just adding a few words in parenthesis.

[apophis775]

Noone else, has ever not understood the rule, because its literally an example.

I'm not rewriting it.

[SASoperative]

Moved and locked