Failure to properly investigate/ Overextending ban

[Gelonvia]

Your Byond ID: Gelonvia

Character Name: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna

Admin who banned you: Apophis

Total Ban Duration: 5 days

Remaining Duration: ??

What other servers do you play on? N/A

Are you now or have you been banned on any of them? Nope

Reason for ban (Exactly what the WHOLE text says, if there's a Code (X##XXX##) and you don't give it, you can't be unbanned):

Previously Russel from Russel station came to our station and trolled the shit out of me leading to a second person having to step in and handle them because they took advantage of me while I was unconscious to steal and loot my gear off of me. Later the nearest person watching who was Artryial Loudain charged him down to retrieve my gear acting as a goodbystander and playerbase.

She tried to disarm him non-lethally to retrieve my gear but in the end she had to shoot him once leaving him to toss a naked gun at me and try running off with my actual gun, meaning he was attempting to be manipulative and still troll the shit out of us to get away with stealing peoples gear. Afterwords I shot him in the foot because he immediately tried running at first chance hoping I wouldn't notice.

Following afterwords I was properly banned however Arty was improperly banned. Later on Apophis came in stating he would come into the middle of the situation too investigate and "Make things clear." http://i.imgur.com/f0gdq9T.png <-- Heres what he said, Apophis didn't seem to recognize that him saying that he wasn't trolling doesn't stop the fact that what Russel did was entirely /trolling/. A previously known troll and griefer who was a previous host for a Grief Station came to our server expecting special treatment and tried taking advantage of the playerbase only to succeed.

Apop is trying to claim that this is based on Elitism, no what happened is based on /Common Sense/ and decency, if you treat a player like shit, taking advantage of them when they're in a vulnerable position and someone tries to stop you, then thats not elitism, thats karma coming back to get you. ELitism is another excuse from Apop to handle the situation of mine as an "Example" when he never fully investigated the situation.

You may be wondering, "But Gelonvia, didn't Apop say he was going to investigate the issue?" That he did, and he /didn't/ correctly. Apop never once spoke to me about the scene, he never once spoke to Artyrial and finally he never once spoke to the /STAFF WITNESS/ ShamWow. This means Apop tossed the evidence out the window to make his own conclusion simply to hold relation with a dead server with a corrupt host who's coming to Apops server to abuse this playerbase with this situation as example.

Apop literally pulled a 180 on Logic saying, "This guy stole your shit taking advantage of a player and accidently died when he got shot even after you were kind enough to try disarming them, they never complied, kept trolling the hell out of you, and even then we already know from his past he's a known griefer in the SS13 Community and this totally isn't a repeat here on my own server and he's doing this to my loyal fanbase who are long term players? POOR HIM! Poor guy who trolled the shit out of my players and suffered the consequences!"

No I have a feeling Apop didn't actually investigate the situation, what would really help to solidify my case though is if there was a statement of word from mouth from Apop that shows how terribly he rushed it and even typed out a statement about me attacking someone who never actually got attacked by me and every other staff involved knows that what Apop said was incorrect. Something like that would be wonderful right?

http://i.imgur.com/81iXWrQ.png
^ Oh look, evidence of him not searching it correctly and stating I shot /arty/.

Apop seems to also have ignored my entire statement that I aimed for the foot as this guy was running away, even as he was hit he never stopped running and never slowed down till he was nearly off my screen in which he collapsed from his broken foot. He also fails to remember /I/ was in critical and that I just taken advantage of by this well known Ex-Staff Troll.

SO here we are! Full circle because this investigation was handled improperly.

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable): viewtopic.php?f=76&t=6590

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc):

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=6590

Just read this entire Topic.

I have a staff witness that was ignored multiple times, thats right boys and girls, theres someone who can fill in those gaps that Apop said there was no proof of, and I have stated he was aware over and over, and ONCE AGAIN they were ignored meaning at this point, Apop is intentionally ignoring them or just not reading what fully happened. Sorry but proof is now in light. (Witness: NoShamWow who was ignored 3 times.)

I expect the ban to be lowered to 3 days and an apology for how /RUDE/ Apop was being FROM APOP simply to cover his own relations with the person who was trolling his own server and even other staff are quoted saying that the following ruling that he made was /Unjust/ and /Terribly Done/.

[Feweh]

I'll give my witness and involvement report.

I logged on just after the incident took place and LocalDown was messaging ART/GEL about what transpired.
I believe I asked him instantly if he was "good and needed help", which I don't think he responded to.
I casually observed their conversation back and forth not overly paying too much attention as I was dealing with other Ahelps that came in.

Eventually LocalDown asked in MSAY how he would go about punishing a player and for how long?
I replied with something like this...
Feweh: Bans usually follow this format, 3hour ban, 24hour ban, 3 day ban, 7 day ban, Potential Perma?

I also told him to check notes to see if there are any prior offenses for similar behavior or bans. If he saw anything that he believed was similar to a warning already/ban already to take that into account.
I also told him that he can give bans at his discretion, if he didn't think they deserved to be banned for 3days he could give them a small 3hour ban to "take a break".
Eventually he told me how long he decided to ban them for.. and I said something along the lines of "I would of given them longer personally".


I personally believe that "James Russle" was being problematic, whether he was breaking server rules or just being a general annoyance... I don't know.
LocalDown did handle the investigation quite well in my opinion, which is why I didn't feel the need to step in or tell him what to do.

In my opinion, the bans are warranted for Gel and Arty. (not speaking ban length wise)
It's pretty clear that you can't kill or use lethal force against other marines, especially not for one stealing your weapons.
Had you reported this players behavior we could of dealt with him, instead you guys kind of took matters into your own hands.
I think the over-all issue here is that both Arty/Gel have prior history of this behavior, which is why there is a bigger issue here.
I also do think that James Russle might need further investigation, as from what I read he was most likely causing problems.

[LocalizedDownpour]

There was an HOURS long discussion amongst the staff. We dug throughout the ENTIRE round logs, so to say it wasn't investigated is just not true. As even I have spent MULTIPLE HOUR reading through everything to best prepare myself as I am trying to take this job quite seriously.

I'd like to point out several things:

1. REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING Arty shot James Russel without there being any escalation. All he did was run away, and hell I'd run away too if an enemy AND my comrades were barreling down on me. Not to mention you came up on him and shot him nigh seven times as you approached which is not only wrong but excessive

2. As Apop posted in the other thread, Arty has a history of improper escalation thus I gave them something higher then yours. This making the third time in two weeks to your knowledge or not.

3.'Being told to do what I think was right' I was the one that marked it when JR ahelped me, to which I wrote it off as FF cause I thought that two regulars wouldn't gun someone down in cold blood which was admittedly my mistake which garnered a SECOND ahelp from JR with combat logs and a second staff member getting involved in the form of TR, the headmin, ontop of the fact while the other mods/staff took a backseat as I handled it, and I made sure fill them all in every step of the way, I even turned off all my logs aside from Msay so i wouldn't miss anything, and after all was said and down I was told I was 'too lenient' by multiple staff

4. Known griefer or not, I'm following a personal rule of, if they're not causing problems here they're not a griefer here. You can be vilified on other servers but if you behave here then that's fine, being known on some other server as a shitler does not paint a target on your back here, nor do regular players deserve ANY LEEWAY AT ALL players of one year and players of one day are held 100% accountable for their actions, that being Arty, you, and myself or any other staff member or player as any set of new players can become the next batch of regulars. I remember my first time on this server from normal SS13 when I was extremely paranoid of every human player cause that's what SS13 does to you and I almost shot afew people for not getting away from me.

5. The ban you have now is what was recommended I do from other staff, not just Apop, but Apop was the one that handled it, ontop of it being one I support. This last bit is just my opinion, but attacking apop in your ban appeal is an easy way to get it denied, but that's more a word of advise then anything.

[TR-BlackDragon]

Gel, apop showed me the logs of the incident. I'd say that as many attacks as you Landed into him within 5 seconds of time isn't "I just shot him in the foot," one bullet would be I just shot him in the foot. You shot him multiple times with AP rounds. I'm rather disappointed in the whole situation. I didn't want to beleive that you, an ex staff member, would go and kill someone for something as petty as stealing your gun. So in all I've read threw the 3 hour discussion on the investigation. So it was indeed, well investigated.

[apophis775]

First, I don't appreciate this as "Failure to properly investigate/overextending ban", because it's not. Literally, every admin who posted here, supported this, and everyone who has mentioned it in staff-chat has as well. Noone has told me this was unjust or over-extended. Hell, I DIDN'T EVEN COME UP WITH THE DURATION (That was Ordukai). I'm the host, so i'm find letting you try to single me out as the bad guy, but fuck if I'm going to let you do it while I remain silent.

We spent around 3 hours last night, discussing the situation, pulling logs, and reading through nearly 200 pages of logs total (which I will post below). So, that's complete bullshit and I personally don't appreciate you accusing me of that. But, for the record, your accusation then covers Ordukai, who was heavily involved in the investigation, and derpislav who was heavily involved in the discussion. I'll let them know your opinion of our ability to investigate.

Also, James Russle, to my knowledge is not the same one as the known griefer. I've known him for awhile and he's one of the better known Hosts in Host-chat, so I seriously doubt he'd be running around griefing when he's literally one of the pillars of host-chat. But, even if he is, his personal history, doesn't give you the ability to break rules as you see fit.

If he stole your gun, that is an IC LAW BREAK. That's not a "Let me fucking shoot this dude to death" law break.

So on your appeal:

DENIED.


If you do the crime, you do the time.

On the apology: No. I may have been angry at the situation, but that doesn't change the results, and putting fucking DEMANDS into your appeal will get you literally jack shit when you were CLEARLY IN THE WRONG.


Let me summarize this ban:

1. You shot an UNARMED MARINE TO DEATH after he returned a weapon to you
2. You LIED TO STAFF (proven by the logs, when it shows you didn't shoot him "once in the foot" unless your just ignoring the god damn 4 other shots that hit him).

It was agreed BY SEVERAL STAFF in a VERY LENGTHY discussion that you'd receive a 5 day ban.



Here's the logs, showing clearly that Gelonvia just shot the fuck up out of someone after he handed a weapon back to her. Also, it shows Arty just shooting him the fuck up, without saying jack shit (for reference, these logs begin at the first log (anything said, or action taken) in several minutes for and of the three people involved):

Code: Select all

 [20:25:34]ATTACK: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain) disarmed James Russle (BDpuffy420)
 [20:25:37]ATTACK: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain) disarmed James Russle (BDpuffy420)
 [20:25:46]ATTACK: Artyrial Loudain (masterspots) shot James Russle (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=151;Y=86;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
[20:25:47]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Arty?
 [20:25:48]EMOTE: James Russle/BDpuffy420 : <B>James Russle</B> screams!
[20:25:49]ATTACK: Artyrial Loudain (masterspots) shot Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=151;Y=89;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
 [20:25:49]ATTACK: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain) disarmed Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420)
[20:25:51]EMOTE: Unknown (as James Russle)/BDpuffy420 : <B>Unknown (as James Russle)</B> screams!
[20:25:51]ATTACK: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain) disarmed Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420)
 [20:25:51]SAY: Unknown (as James Russle)/BDpuffy420 : THE HELL
 [20:25:52]ATTACK: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain) disarmed Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420)
 [20:25:56]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Give her back
 [20:25:57]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Her shit
 [20:26:00]ATTACK: Artyrial Loudain (masterspots) was hit by a the M41A Pulse Rifle, thrown by Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=154;Y=90;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
 [20:26:07]ATTACK: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna (Gelonvia) shot Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=155;Y=90;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
 [20:26:09]ATTACK: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna (Gelonvia) shot Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=155;Y=90;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
 [20:26:10]ATTACK: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna (Gelonvia) shot Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=155;Y=90;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
[20:26:10]EMOTE: Unknown (as James Russle)/BDpuffy420 : <B>Unknown (as James Russle)</B> screams!
[20:26:10]ATTACK: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna (Gelonvia) shot Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=155;Y=90;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
[20:26:10]EMOTE: Unknown (as James Russle)/BDpuffy420 : <B>Unknown (as James Russle)</B> screams!
 [20:26:11]EMOTE: Unknown (as James Russle)/BDpuffy420 : <B>Unknown (as James Russle)</B> screams!
[20:26:12]ATTACK: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna (Gelonvia) shot Unknown (as James Russle) (BDpuffy420) with a the armor-piercing rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=155;Y=90;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
 [20:26:17]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Bitch removed the attachment
 [20:26:25]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : He has it on the other one
 [20:26:46]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Figures.. traitorous asshole
 [20:26:50]ADMIN: HELP: BDpuffy420/(James Russle): Artyrial Loudain & Casca legs gunned me down... - heard by 4 non-AFK admins.
 [20:27:09]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): Firenly fire?
 [20:27:28]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Hello? Plasma shooter?
[20:27:30]SAY: Roswell Ray/Chris1464 : My toes have been soaked in god knows who's all day
[20:27:30]SAY: Felix Curry/Pouchythepirate : Carmen wherd you go?
[20:27:30]SAY: Ghost/Darklizard45 : Toggle those SpecialRole Candidacy
[20:27:31]SAY: Angelo Pearsall/Jroinc1 : Here.
[20:27:31]GAME: Explosion with size (-1, -1, 2) in area Northern Jungle 
[20:27:32]SAY: Unknown (as Xur 'Ghost' Dergens)/Xurphorus : S-Styles
[20:27:32]EMOTE: Unknown (as Xur 'Ghost' Dergens)/Xurphorus : <B>Unknown (as Xur 'Ghost' Dergens)</B> screams!
[20:27:33]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Can we speak?!
[20:27:33]SAY: Unknown (as Sam 'Stunner' Abrams)/Rapidboy9 : H-Hydro is clear team move the fuck up
[20:27:34]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): No they went out of their way to shoot me, because I picked up a gun on the ground.
 [20:27:47]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : What?
 [20:28:09]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Arty, with me please?
 [20:28:47]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Wait!
 [20:28:51]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Please..!
 [20:29:20]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Cas
[20:29:21]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Down
[20:29:24]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : It's this way
 [20:29:39]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : WHere?
 [20:29:48]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Where you left me
 [20:30:03]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Hello?
 [20:30:07]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Wait..!
 [20:30:13]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Yeah so...I'm going guess since they are a regular here they will not face anything for what they did. And I will remain dead.
[20:30:14]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : It went up
 [20:30:16]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Is it still here?
 [20:30:33]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Wait..! Please!
 [20:30:45]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Doesn't seem like the talking kind
 [20:30:57]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Put yourguns away
[20:30:57]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): It's not possible to stay in cloak when shooting as it is coded to uncloak you when you shoot.
 [20:31:04]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Dmanit.. where did it go?
 [20:31:18]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): What?
 [20:31:25]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Doooo
 [20:31:32]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): I'm saying they cannot be cloaked and shoot at the same time.
 [20:31:49]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Hello? Person thing?
 [20:32:00]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Wait!
 [20:32:01]EMOTE: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : <B>Artyrial Loudain</B> frowns.
 [20:32:03]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Here..!
 [20:32:24]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Jim, stop being dumb
 [20:32:30]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : It's not very nice
 [20:32:33]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I was shot by Artyrial Loudain  & Casca 'Legs' Orivanna 
 [20:32:38]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Stop!
 [20:32:44]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): That was Friendly fire
[20:32:44]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : You two! PLEASE leave!
 [20:32:54]SAY: Cayden 'Prisoner' Mary/Daman453 : FJC<
[20:32:54]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): It wasn't man..
 [20:33:59]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Cas
 [20:34:04]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Stop
 [20:34:07]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : It's not this way
 [20:34:11]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : It was more west
[20:34:12]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Guh.. are you sure?
 [20:34:22]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : East now
 [20:34:38]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): http://prntscr.com/awvsny
[20:34:38]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : We lost jim
 [20:34:55]EMOTE: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : <B>Artyrial Loudain</B> waves.
 [20:35:00]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): WELP!
 [20:35:06]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Cas
 [20:35:07]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Guy? Person?
 [20:35:09]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Open your eyes
 [20:35:15]SAY: Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : WAIT!
[20:35:16]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Yeah I have screenshots  http://prntscr.com/awvsup
 [20:35:17]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): I didn't have those logs. Something will be done. If you have more please give me them.
 [20:37:46]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): So...I have logs of you and Arty gunning down a marine?
 [20:37:59]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): One second
[20:37:59]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain): So I have logs of you and Casca gunning down a marine?
 [20:38:22]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Well that is all I have, as a server host this pains me knowing this type of crap goes on man. Ya'll need to cap you're regular for shit like this... because it has ruined my whole round.
 [20:38:38]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): your*
 [20:38:39]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): The marine stole and ran off with Cas's gun
 [20:38:46]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): THey're not getting off scott free. I am but one person.
 [20:38:49]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Where'd Cas go?
 [20:39:10]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain): That is no reason to kill someone.
 [20:39:15]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I didn't
 [20:39:39]SAY: Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : MEDICO
 [20:40:52]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Okay, I can talk now. Yeah, I got up after being taken down by a hugger, and Arty was randomly chasing this marine around? Didn't know why at first, but then I relaized all my stuff was stolen off me. So she shot him once, then the traitorous ass during combat thought tossing me the gun with all the attachments he stole would appease for his shit. I noticed he stole the attachments and not the gun, so I shot his foot. But he died due to his wounds, so I dragged the traitor to the shuttle and made sure his gear was on him.
 [20:41:07]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): So yeah, the guy was being a troll ICly
 [20:41:09]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I shot him twice after he ran away until he stopped then tried to take the gun at which point he swapped it for his own one with nothing on it
 [20:41:20]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Please don't accuse me of lying when am not.
 [20:41:30]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Another one of your standard people trying to rename themselves after "James Russle" of Russle station.
 [20:42:10]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain): I have combat logs of you and casca shooting him to death. You saying you didn't is well...
 [20:42:21]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I shot him twice before Cas did and then nothing else.
 [20:42:27]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Your logs should say that
 [20:42:30]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I understand, but I do see your headmin is on and I'd rather have my issue handled by someone with experience  in these matter not to be rude :-L 
 [20:42:59]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): What is your issue?
 [20:43:52]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): So...killing him was abit much hoenstly.
 [20:44:01]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): Also FYI your name is in violation of our server rules. That is a famous Baseball player.
 [20:44:11]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Yeah, didn't mean to, just wanted to break his foot so he wouldn't run but apparently he already had a ton of damage
 [20:44:44]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): From arty shooting him twice. Even so lethal force against someone not using lethal against you is against server rules, for both of you.
 [20:44:45]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Sorry if I am a little slow, in the middle of combat trying to give this Yautja back their mine
 [20:44:47]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer): Well I was killed by two of your regulars over a gun I picked up after I helped one them get an xeno of them I have logs: http://prnt.sc/awvsny  , http://prnt.sc/awvsup 
 [20:44:57]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Can you atleast handle the trol then 
[20:45:15]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): Trying to juggle all that I can.
 [20:45:57]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Thanks, I appreciate if you can because he intentionally stole my gear and left me gunless in the middle of a combat zone
 [20:46:40]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): It was such a passive troll I was lucky that Arty made a commotion about it.
 [20:48:25]ADMIN: HELP: BDpuffy420/(James Russle): Secondly I've always played as James Russle in ss13 everywhere I go and there was no way for me to know the name is from a famous person. like you might mean James Russell. - heard by 5 non-AFK admins.
 [20:51:14]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): So when did you think it was a smart move to steal someones gun and or attachments? And yea sorry google auto corrected your name. Now It wasnt legal for them to do what they did but they are being delt with. Now why did you have any issue with dealign with one of my Mods? 
 [20:51:33]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): After reviewing you notes and the combat logs I'm administering a  three hour ban. In the future try not to use immediate lethal force.
 [20:51:57]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Sure thing, mind giving me a second to get somewhere where I wont burden others ICly?
[20:52:14]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): Take about 5 minutes.
 [20:54:08]OOC: (LOCAL) Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : I'm getting banned because of using lethal intent on that guy who tried to steal my shit and you had to chase down hun. It's only...3 hours though
 [20:54:16]OOC: (LOCAL) Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Mind making sure I get back to Sully
 [20:54:21]OOC: (LOCAL) Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : :c
[20:54:46]OOC: (LOCAL) Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Yeah, they said they would handle the troll though, so no worries hun

 [20:54:56]OOC: (LOCAL) Casca 'Legs' Orivanna/Gelonvia : Cya tomorrow then, okay?
 [20:55:00]OOC: (LOCAL) Artyrial Loudain/Masterspots : Yeahhh
 [20:55:20]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer): Because at first they were telling me it was FF and really wasn't getting anywhere with my  ahelp until I had show them screenshots..and the fact they didn't have any access to see logs is a reason I needed someone else.  And they were face hugged and I moved them after I removed the said facehugger went back to fighting before being killed. 
 [20:55:41]ADMIN: PM: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Alrighty, ready for the ban. Mind doing me a favor by still handling the troll though too, or atleast talking with them? 
 [20:55:59]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain): Administering a 12 hour ban after reviewing notes and logs. In the future read our Escalation rules.
 [20:56:05]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): What?
 [20:56:20]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna): TR is dealing with them.
 [20:56:39]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I didn't try to kill him how did I escalate wrong?
 [20:56:52]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I aimmed for his legs so he'd stop running
[20:56:54]ADMIN: localizeddownpour has banned Gelonvia.
Reason: Failure to escalate/notes
This will be removed in 180 minutes.
[20:56:54]ACCESS: Logout: Gelonvia/(Casca 'Legs' Orivanna)
 [20:57:11]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain): That's using a lethal weapon.
 [20:57:20]ADMIN: PM: LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404))->Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain): Because he died.
[20:57:22]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): You can kill someone with a stunbaton.
 [20:57:28]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Not by me
 [20:57:40]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): I disarmed him once he stopped running
 [20:57:46]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): As the locks will say
 [20:57:50]ADMIN: PM: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)->LocalizedDownpour/(Spitter (404)): Logs*
 [20:57:59]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): And what reason did you think it was a good reason to steal someone elses gun? Thats like the worst thing you could do and it will easily piss someone off

[20:58:27]ADMIN: localizeddownpour has banned masterspots.
Reason: Failure to Escalate/Notes
This will be removed in 720 minutes.
[20:58:27]ACCESS: Logout: Masterspots/(Artyrial Loudain)
 [20:59:29]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer): I was about to also get facehugged? 
 [21:01:18]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): and why didnt you give the gun back when asked to return it?
 [21:03:09]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer): I dropped it...and then was gunned down...if you looked at the screenshot you can see both of them gunning me down.
 [21:03:56]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): I can also look up the logs. Now Its best if you be truthful now then me find you were lieing to me. Because the logs show that you were shot first by art before you threw the gun at him.
 [21:04:50]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer): You can check your logs by all means.
 [21:14:42]ADMIN: PM: TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer)->BDpuffy420/(James Russle): hmm Sorry for the questioning. Casca isnt usually one to shot at someone with out good reason. Which is why i was. It seems she was going off bad info. Art has been issued a hefty ban. Anyway Have a good day.
 [21:18:11]ADMIN: PM: BDpuffy420/(James Russle)->TR-Blackdragon/(Ronald ''Loki'' Shaffer): Well thanks.

If you want my TRUE AND HONEST opinion on this, you need to just serve this ban and work to be a better player in the future. Don't rely on staff "running to your aid" this time, because YOU are the one in the wrong. And then, to DEMAND a ban reduction and apology for measures we took to punish you for breaking the rules, that's just ignorance. You are a player on CM, and are subject to the SAME RULES as all other players. James Russle, despite you thinking he may be a griefer, broke NO RULES (he may have broken marine Law at the MOST). You broke the no-griefing rule by shooting that guy to DEATH, while he stood there UNARMED. It wouldn't matter if it was fucking George Melons himself or a random new baldie. That shit doesn't fly here, and you KNOW that. The reason I was so upset, was because of the MASSIVE AMOUNT of disappointment at this situation, since typically, we give the benefit of the doubt that you are usually "Above" this type of bullshit, which in the logs, you see we even mention and take your side before the start of the investigation as a result. But, you abused that trust by breaking the rules and shooting that marine, and I can't say if you'll ever earn it back to that point again.

So no. Your appeal will NOT be accepted, and you will not receive an apology. If I have anything to apologize for, it's to the general population for the minor special treatment you received during this whole situation, as if it was just about anyone else that 3 hour discussion and debate would have been "PERMA THEM" as the actions you took, classify into what we always describe as GRIEF. My suggestion, is that you serve this ban and not repeat your mistake, because if you EVER kill another defenseless marine when they stand in front of you with no weapon in hand like that again, I doubt any staff member will step in to support you to stop a permaban. Most of the good-will you had with the staff, was burned up the moment you shot that unarmed marine, and a large amount of what little remained, was burned up when you made this topic accusing us of not properly investigating, when I was sitting in a chat, from 1am-4/5am with Ordukai and a few others DISCUSSING AND DEBATING THIS AT LENGTH while we pulled and analyzed logs.

And then, to DEMAND an apology and reducation? I can't even describe how crazy that sounds. This might be blunt, but your a CM player, a regular, but not someone super special entitled to any special treatment or exception from the rules. You did RECEIVE some special treatment in the investigation/processing of this ban because of your history with us, but that won't be happening again.

[masterspots]

He wasn't unarmed, he Still had Cas's guns he never returned a weapon to her he threw his weapon at me...

[LocalizedDownpour]

He wasn't unarmed, he Still had Cas's guns he never returned a weapon to her he threw his weapon at me...

He wasn't firing his weapon at you is the point.

[coroneljones]

Jonesical Input the ban is justified,escalation,and murder
Though from a glance,without looking at the notes it seems a bit too long if this is the first case of unproper escalation of force,if it isnt,then disregard this.

[masterspots]

He said unarmed not never fired, I also don't see how someone is defenseless when they have a gun, Apop has used people having weapons even in the armour to justify killing them as a predator before.

[LocalizedDownpour]

He said unarmed not never fired, I also don't see how someone is defenseless when they have a gun, Apop has used people having weapons even in the armour to justify killing them as a predator before.

You're not a predator. You're a marine, who fired on a marine. For theft. Those two things are not the same.

[masterspots]

Having a gun and being defenseless are not the same either...

[Gelonvia]

He said unarmed not never fired, I also don't see how someone is defenseless when they have a gun, Apop has used people having weapons even in the armour to justify killing them as a predator before.

Apop has also killed people without weapons or armor before, but we're not talking about apop right now. Frankly I was already told to give up by other staff members because no matter how terribly these three handled it, it won't matter because its Apop. Noone can talk to Apop because he doesn't want to listen, to hi this is his server, he can break it as much as he wants and hurt whoever he wants. I see multiple staff resignations in the future.

Also Apop, I don't appreciate alot of things you do to me and the playerbase and how you overall treat us intentionally. I guess that makes two of us, bye.

[apophis775]

I like, she said we handled it "terribly" when I posted the logs of what SHE did.

If anything, SHE handled it terribly by killing the marine, then lying about it.

I hope other people, understand and see the reason of this. We can't just let people shoot the fuck out of marines for no reason.

[apophis775]

Having a gun and being defenseless are not the same either...

He wasn't firing it, and from what I understand, it was empty (which is why he grabbed the other one).

[masterspots]

He wasn't firing it, and from what I understand, it was empty (which is why he grabbed the other one).

The one he grabbed he still had on him which was Casca's one, the one he threw away was his old one which would be the one with no ammo I'd assume.

[apophis775]

The one, that She shot him with?

But EVEN IF he had a gun, he didn't fire it back, and she shot him, for a good 5-7 seconds with MANY rounds.

I'm not sure, how anyone can remotely defend what she did. It was a blatant execution for no good reason. He broke an IC law at the most, NOT a rule, and not an IC law that results in EXECUTION.

I'm not sure why, you guys are having so much trouble understanding you can't just fucking shoot whoever you disagree with.

[masterspots]

Pretty sure she shot him with one of the 4 rifles all outside the nexus not the one that got thrown at me.

[apophis775]

Riddle me this batman:

Does the specific weapon, CHANGE THE FACT that she shot him up for no real reason? Which is the issue here, and the REASON for the ban.

Like I said, this was VERY disappointing to staff, because she was not only FORMER staff but had more trust placed into her than most players did at her word.

She violated that trust, when she shot that guy up, and proved that she believed herself above the rules.

And people don't quite seem to understand this:

I don't host this server to make friends (Mostly, that's a happy coincidence when it happens)
I don't host this server to cater to people who think themselves super-special.
I don't host this server for some sort of power-trip.

I DO host this server, because I'm a fan of Ridley Scott and the Aliens Universe
I DO host this server, because I'm a game designer, and enjoy working and expanding the game and the universe we've created for it. I don't get as much dev time as I used to, but I still try.
I DO host this server, because I have an EXCELLENT Dev team and staff I do my best to support them and what they do with pretty much everything I can at all times.

I do my best to be as impartial as possible in all situations, but that's not always 100% possible. This situation, I feel that staff was DEFINITLY impartial towards (supporting) Gelonvia, because as I've said MANY TIMES, if this were the situation for just about anyone else, it would have probably been a short discussion and BAN, not a 3-hour investigation involving several staff members. We did our best, to try and make sure there was a maximum of investigation and work put into determining exactly what happened and who was at fault. But it's good to see, that our effort to handle this was worth it when she demands an apology, ban reduction, and makes very entitled remarks about the entire situation, despite being 100% in the wrong for KILLING ANOTHER MARINE. Which is the basic POINT of this whole situation. That she KILLED ANOTHER MARINE for no RP/Rule Justified reason.

[masterspots]

I'm pretty sure you know her reason and it seems fairly real, is the issue not that you 'investigated' but parts of what you said from your investigation are wrong so how do we know that doesn't mean other parts aren't as well?

I don't see anywhere where she has said she's above the rules, is this you making more assumptions then?

[Adjective]

Gelonvia, as your friend I would like to give you some advice and tell you it was a reasonable ban time and to just serve the crime. It's disappointing hearing negativity about Apophis because I will confirm that he is the most level-headed person of this staff team. This is not me sucking up because he is my boss, this is me telling you genuinely that Apophis is the fairest and will deal with things in a professional mannerism. All players are subject to the same level of discipline, including staff. If I as an Admin break a rule, then anyone including a Mentor/Player may tell me so and inform any other Admin or a Head/Host of my actions and I will be disciplined in the same manner a player would be.

I understand that you may be frustrated, but personal attacks are a smidgen too much. Especially the "Several staff resignations in the future" comment. We have multiple staff members, Ordukai, Allan, Feweh as some examples that will tell you directly to your face what you are doing wrong; power position or not, and this is not the case.

[apophis775]

I'm pretty sure you know her reason and it seems fairly real, is the issue not that you 'investigated' but parts of what you said from your investigation are wrong so how do we know that doesn't mean other parts aren't as well?

I don't see anywhere where she has said she's above the rules, is this you making more assumptions then?

NO. Tell me, WHAT WAS HER REASON?

What reason, was good enough to justify her gunning down another marine in cold blood. Give me a SINGLE REASON that fits within our rules and wouldn't result in punishment if another person did it.

[masterspots]

No reason is good enough, but you asked for a real reason and am pretty sure stealing is still a reason.

[LocalizedDownpour]

I still don't see how this was mismanaged given that what...more then five staff memeber were involved...everyone sat down, and pretty much unanimously deicided this was the punishment. I feel like something is being lost in translation. This isn't a case of 'big bad apop coming to abusing the mortals' We literally sat down and hashed it out as he dug through pages upon pages of notes. He wouldn't do that for anyone Gel. I litteraly waved off the first ahelp because I thought there was no way you'd do this. If anything at every turn the staff has been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt only to have it thrown back in our faces.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

No reason is good enough, but you asked for a real reason and am pretty sure stealing is still a reason.

If I may interject...

I don't see how stealing justifies killing another player. The logs show that you both managed to obtain other firearms. What was so special about the one he took from you that you had to justify killing him to get it back?

[apophis775]

I still don't see how this was mismanaged given that what...more then five staff memeber were involved...everyone sat down, and pretty much unanimously deicided this was the punishment. I feel like something is being lost in translation. This isn't a case of 'big bad apop coming to abusing the mortals' We literally sat down and hashed it out as he dug through pages upon pages of notes. He wouldn't do that for anyone Gel. I litteraly waved off the first ahelp because I thought there was no way you'd do this. If anything at every turn the staff has been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt only to have it thrown back in our faces.

Because for Gelonvia apparently, it feels like BIG BAD APOP HAS COME DOWN FROM HIS THRONE TO DEAL SWIFT AND UNJUST PUNISHMENT.

It's not unjust. She shot a marine TO DEATH. The Marine did not resist, he did not shoot her. This could have been solved, with a SINGLE AHELP when they realized he had the gun. Though, I notice that they are also conveniently excluding the fact that, according to what I was told by several people, it was him who removed the hugger from her in the first place.

I dealt with this PERSONALLY because another server host was involved at first. In the end, I involved a fair amount of staff in the discussion/judgement. In fact, the only thing I'm being told by staff is "unjust or too lengthy" us the Probation placed on Masterspots.

Also, as far as staff resigning, I seriously doubt anyone will resign over this. If I was TRULY as horrible as Gelonvia is making me out to be, we'd have had a lot of staff actually resign over me being a HORRIBLE PERSON, which has never happened. Because as many of them have said, I may be brutal and heavy-handed sometimes, but I am also fair.

CM isn't going to dissolve because a single player is upset at a justified ban. We'll continue to endure because it will honestly take a LOT MORE THAN THIS to break us. When her ban expires, it will be her choice (and her choice alone) if she decides she wants to continue to endure with us, or to leave again. And if she makes that choice to stay with us, she'll be expected to follow the rules just like any other player. Killing marines for "No Justifiable reason" is against the rules, and will remain against the rules.