Re-appeal Failure to Escalate/Notes

[masterspots]

Your Byond ID: masterspots

Character Name: Artyrial Loudain

Admin who banned you: Apophis

Total Ban Duration: 3 Days?

Remaining Duration: 3 Days?

What other servers do you play on? None

Are you now or have you been banned on any of them? Nope

Reason for ban (Exactly what the WHOLE text says, if there's a Code (X##XXX##) and you don't give it, you can't be unbanned): Failure to Escalate

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable): viewtopic.php?f=76&t=6590

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc): Hi, Sorry I'm replying so late I wrote the last one at 3 am and then had work for the whole day.

So let's go over what happened:

I walk outside the north entrance of the nexus after I hear gunshots.

I see Russel and then further North I see Cas on the ground huggered being dragged by a runner.

I fire at the runner and scare it off and start trying to remove the hugger.

At this point Russel who is in his underwear(Breaking the get in uniform rule?) runs up and drags Cas away from me.

Another runner appears as he drags her away so I start firing at it to keep it away and mange to kill it.

Afterwards I head over to Cas and Russel, Russel has managed to remove the hugger but doesn't seem to know how to get her up so I start shaking her up.

She get's up and we haven't seen any aliens since that runner at this point.

Once Cas is up Russel runs over to Cas's gun and picks it up and then runs straight into the nexus with it(This seems to be breaking don't be a dick rule no?, especially as he lied to the admins when he said he needed the ammo considering the nexus had 3 lockers of ammo and there was also 2 other rifles on the ground nearby).

So I try and chase after him, during this point I assume he take his rifle outta his armour slot and places Cas's in it?

After running into the middle of the nexus he runs back out towards the Fitness dome, I'm still following him at this point but can't really get his attention as he carries on running.

So I fire aiming for the groin avoid anything lethal, I hit him once and he carries on running so I fire some more and hit him once more. At this point he finally stops after swapping Cas's gun for his own and Says "What the fuck?!"(or something along those lines).

At this point I finally manage to Say"You took her gun!", he then throws his gun at me and just carries on running off and I try to disarm him as he runs past and somehow fired my rifle pointblank in one hand?(I don't think it fired though the text just said it did).

I believe I manage to push him over but at this point Cas comes over and fire's upon him after I say"He took your gun". She removes her gun from his armour and proceeds to place him in the nexus.

This is what happened from my point of view, It may of been a failure to escalate but from what I saw this guy hadn't bothered to read the rules and was just pulling off general dickish behavior you'd get away on most other servers. I tried to escalate while chasing after him but while I was typing he'd move outta my view so I couldn't and the only way I saw to get him to stop was to fire some warning shots. I'm sorry if this was wrong but from what I saw he was just trying to cause problems to begin with, hadn't bothered to read the rules and was flat out stopping me from trying to role-play it properly(He ran off with the gun into the nexus and then as I chased him into the nexus he ran back out into the jungle, makes sense if he just wanted ammo right?)

Okay so my notes that were brought up I know their are more that meant I got what I got and I completely deserve this one as I was completly smashed and acted horribley to the MP for that I am sorry.
Failure to escalate - specifically, retaliated with firearms HALF AN HOUR after their last melee interaction with a character. Warned. by Jackserious (Moderator) on Sat, April 23rd of 2016 Remove

However this one
Got into a scuffle with a player. It escalated to lethals, and masterspots seemingly tried to space the other player out of the shuttle. Warned against spacing other players. by SecretStamos (HeadSpriter) on Wed, April 13th of 2016 Remove
I have a real problem with, I threatened to space someone I never did nor was I going to I broke the window in the cockpit so they wouldn't accidentally fall out but to make it look like I meant it, if I had wanted to space them I would of used the Stun baton in my backpack, but I didn't want to space them.

I did this because this person had lifted the drop-ship of early leaving 2 infected marine son the planet who were asking for the shuttle to wait for them, They also let another occupant on the shuttle get infected by not removing the hugger on them, so at this point I was annoyed with them.

So I asked them why they had left and called them a coward and threatened to space them and they gave some crappy response.

So I then started to push them they then drew a knife on me which I disarmed, they then drew a pistol and started firing it I managed to disarm that from them as well.

At this point we finally landed after having a scuffle of me pushing and them firing the gun. The MP's came aboard and started trying to break it up at which point I was buckled into a roller bed and I get slashed in the head by the person with the knife breaking my skull as it tried to do surgery and failed. At this point I had been shot at and stabbed so I got up and returned fire.

I'm pretty sure your rule is if both players use lethal force it voids admin assistance no?

Sorry about all this bother but I really don't think this is fair considering what he did and not allowing me to defend my self against any of the points brought up was also slightly unfair.

It was brought up that this is how new players were treated and that's just wrong. Whenever I see a new player who looks like they might need help I ahelp and ask for a mentor or mod to see if they need help especially when they are playing more command side roles. I also answer any questions they might have or give them suggestions over LOOC.
Generally the community as a whole is a lot better than what it was when I joined where even some mods would be unwelcoming so it's hardly fair to accuse people of this. Perhaps what is needed is someway to force people to read the rules on their first time and for people to enforce them more vigorously as some people will get away with all kinds of dickish behavior.

It's also confusing and slightly strange giving out 2 bans on a ban appeal especially when what is said has mistakes in it Gel never killed me?

[Westhybrid]

I'll investigate it shortly unless Apop wants to handle this himself.

[apophis775]

We (several staff members) spent several hours last night, investigating this specific situation. It was suggested, that you (for your history) receive a 3-5 day ban, and we decided to go with 3 days and a probation.

The logs show, you improperly escalated. The reason for the 3 day ban, is because this was literally, the 3rd Improper escalation in a row for you, in like, 2 weeks.

If any staff want to investigate, read the 3/4-hour slack discussion with me, Ord, and Derpilsav.

[masterspots]

You only quoted one what are the other two?

[LocalizedDownpour]

You only quoted one what are the other two?

Having read everything, and being the person that gave the original ban, the issue here is what happened this round, the other two notes is what made this punishment so steep.

It's my hopes that all of this will make you think twice about shooting fellow marines. Stealing a gun is no reason to gun someone down. Ever. The only exception I could see is if it were a Spec weapon and even then. I want you to know this is nothing person to ethier you or Gel infact I had alot of respect for Gel as she was someone I emulated when I came to this server.

The fact remains that you fired at a marine that wasn't trying to hurt you intentionally. No you didn't kill him, but we don't really function on a 'intent to only maim' as a clause to our rules. Even firing one shot out of a rifle at a marine intentionally is against our policy, and in my eyes my upholding this rule even to seasoned regulars shows new people that we take our jobs quite seriously. Apop is not lying when he says we spent a LONG TIME reviewing this and taking extra special care in deciding these times and it wasn't just one of us that made this call. My advice is to ride out your time and hopefully return to us with a new mindset.

[masterspots]

Well one of those notes isn't even about failing to escalate so...

[apophis775]

Code: Select all

Got into a scuffle with a player. It escalated to lethals, and masterspots seemingly tried to space the other player out of the shuttle. Warned against spacing other players. by  on Wed, April 13th of 2016 Remove

Failure to escalate - specifically, retaliated with firearms HALF AN HOUR after their last melee interaction with a character. Warned. by  on Sat, April 23rd of 2016 Remove

Those are 2 issues, with the Escallation rule that you had, in 2 weeks. This was the third.

I can't just let people pick/choose what rules they WANT to follow.

[masterspots]

Code: Select all

Got into a scuffle with a player. It escalated to lethals, and masterspots seemingly tried to space the other player out of the shuttle. Warned against spacing other players. by  on Wed, April 13th of 2016 Remove

Failure to escalate - specifically, retaliated with firearms HALF AN HOUR after their last melee interaction with a character. Warned. by  on Sat, April 23rd of 2016 Remove

Those are 2 issues, with the Escallation rule that you had, in 2 weeks. This was the third.

I can't just let people pick/choose what rules they WANT to follow.

I guess you haven't read what I said cause in no way did that first one break your escalation rule, they responded back with more force than me.

[apophis775]

I did read what you said. But it was in relation to the escalation rule.

You might not be understanding what we are saying. This is, a 3rd incident, with you, involving the escalation rule to some degree or another.

Not necessarily breaking it completely in all the instances (the first instance, spacing would have been excessive), but you show a propensity to jump to it quickly and several times over a 2 week period. I have people who've played here for 6 months as good Role-players and NEVER used it.

[masterspots]

Okay thanks for explaining it, Sounds more than fair and sorry for my behavior.

[apophis775]

Our goal isn't to chase people off with punishments, but to make people understand what they did, and to work on a way for them to improve in the future.

If we were really trying to punish or chase people away, I'd just jump right to permabans.

[Adjective]

To be fair, if you look at most other servers we give multiple chances and fairly short punishments. We always try to be fair and only "ask not to return" players that refuse to change or adhere to the rules. The only exception being ERP because of a potential lawsuit.