A savage and un-considered ban

[Kailas]

Your Byond ID:

Character Name: Damian Cordite

Type Of Ban (Job-ban, Timed Ban, Permaban): "You have been banned by feweh.
Reason: Shot marines after being rescued, walked into a sentry turret that turned on and he had no ID as a survivor. Got angry, shot some marines.."

Admin who banned you (if known): Feweh

Total Ban Duration: 3420 minutes?

Remaining Duration: just happened

What other servers do you play on? Nope

Are you now or have you been banned on any of them? Nope

Reason for ban (If you have a Permaban, it should be the EXACT MESSAGE YOU GET WHEN YOU LOGIN with the Error code that looks like this: X##XXX##. If you do not provide this EXACTLY you can't be unbanned):
"You have been banned by feweh.
Reason: Shot marines after being rescued, walked into a sentry turret that turned on and he had no ID as a survivor. Got angry, shot some marines.."

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc):

Survivors are fine at LZ2 after heroically surviving for ages

Guy puts turret on 360, turret hits my survivor-buddy Xur, blows his head off, turret automatically turns towards me, fires one burst, I'm extremely injured, I try to retreat into TComms but marines who don't realize what's going on bodyblock me (probably not on help intent because they were dragging multiple objects which also blocked me), I'm holding my MAR-40 on burst so that'll drop a turret, so I shoot at the turret, marines see what I'm doing but one SPEC decided to get between the bullets to save the turret so he gets shot some. Wasn't aiming at him, was aiming at the lethal turret, just trying to preserve myself (also tricky to see through turret pain), this here's the aftermath, not really sure what it proves:

http://imgur.com/3QL091F

[Westhybrid]

I'll investigate it in the morning.

[Feweh]

Once you plead non-hostile to the Marines you can't shoot them.

You also got shot by the turret, turned around... walked back towards it and started shooting.
You could of walked away as you were out of reach and the Marine who turned the turret on didn't do it with intentions to harm you. By the time you headed back to the turret it was already turned off.

Also, if you blew that turret up you would of harmed more marines from that.
I really did consider this and I looked at your past notes for it as well which all show similar logic from you.

Banned from Chief Engineer, Maintenance Tech - As a maintenance tech trying to replace the Supermatter which had been previously ejected, opened the supermatter crate outside of the SM chamber and immediately clicked on it. Consider this a 3 day Engineering ban. https://w2.countingdownto.com/1331092 by ) on Tue, March 29th of 2016 Remove

3 day ban issued for shooting an MT to death whom only punched them a couple. Considering that they didnt have much history only issued a 3 day ban, and warned to look over the rules during that time by on Thu, April 7th of 2016

Seems to be a consistent trend with you.
Anyways, this wasn't savage at all. You had the chance to walk away and you did make it out of the sentry line of sight... you turned around... went back and shot wildly hitting marines.

[apophis775]

Yeah, it kind of shows a pattern that you're quick to jump to hostilities.

[Kailas]

Once you plead non-hostile to the Marines you can't shoot them.

You also got shot by the turret, turned around... walked back towards it and started shooting.
You could of walked away as you were out of reach and the Marine who turned the turret on didn't do it with intentions to harm you. By the time you headed back to the turret it was already turned off.

Also, if you blew that turret up you would of harmed more marines from that.
I really did consider this and I looked at your past notes for it as well which all show similar logic from you.

Banned from Chief Engineer, Maintenance Tech - As a maintenance tech trying to replace the Supermatter which had been previously ejected, opened the supermatter crate outside of the SM chamber and immediately clicked on it. Consider this a 3 day Engineering ban. https://w2.countingdownto.com/1331092 by ) on Tue, March 29th of 2016 Remove

3 day ban issued for shooting an MT to death whom only punched them a couple. Considering that they didnt have much history only issued a 3 day ban, and warned to look over the rules during that time by on Thu, April 7th of 2016

Seems to be a consistent trend with you.
Anyways, this wasn't savage at all. You had the chance to walk away and you did make it out of the sentry line of sight... you turned around... went back and shot wildly hitting marines.

If that were a fair summation of the facts that would be true, but I did try to limp away, a marine repeatedly rebuffed me from entering comms, which was the only retreat route. And I was definitely still in range, LZ2 to Telecomms isn't very far. I moved "toward" the turret to angle around the marine who was trying to get in the way of the bullets. I couldn't tell it was off, I was in crit and half-blind. I couldn't retreat a different direction, because again, crit limp. Also I stopped shooting when the turret fell over, clear indication I wasn't "shooting marines". It really was my last hail mary chance to survive. It actually worked until marines lit me up repeatedly, even on the ground, which if anything makes them the griefers, but obviously that's a good-faith error on their part. For me, obviously the turret shot me first, so that right there eliminates any idea that I was the agressor. What you call "penchant for hostilities" I call "competent". I knew I could drop that turret because I play engineer, I was right, it worked. Not every exceptional action is exceptionally bad.

The CE/MT incident, again, not really fair, I was following the book to restart it because I never played MT and accidentally opened it, tried to click the exact same spot to CLOSE it, the SM model goes a little beyond its graphic, so I burned. That's like, really obviously a good-faith error.

There was a whole discussion around the other incident so I won't rehash that, but again, very arguable (ship under attack is not the time to start punching marines and expecting them to wait for MPs, and the guy kept coming until I shot him, straight up unlucky that it killed him).

This reminds me of the time you guys banned my buddy Mikee Funks (NWI dev and community manager who gets paid as his profession to mod, who liked the game but stopped because he was offended) because he piloted the shuttle down as MP and then was forced to flee the ship and run to pod. You guys really jump to conclusions without enough evidence, then coax the story you tell about the ban to justify it. And it's not necessary, those types of events are what make the game interesting, and even at their worst those types of things don't do anywhere near as much damage as intentional griefing like ejecting SM, but for some reason the punishments are similar. Banned yourselves out of some material support there. Beyond being an overweening dweeb move to powertrip over Mod powers, it's just bad game management. You need a better mod culture that understands concepts like sufficiency of the evidence and good vs bad faith errors because especially new players get scared off by spasmodic mods. Also to enforce rules on aliens as much as you do marines. Basically your whole rule-enforcement system needs an overhaul if you wanna transition to a more mainstream game.

[Kailas]

Yeah, it kind of shows a pattern that you're quick to jump to hostilities.

Dogpiling on false narratives not cool bro

[Feweh]

No sorry, i watched the entire events unfold.

All you had to do was wait for that marine to come out the door, you were already out of sentry range at that point.

Furthermore, it wasnt a sound plan. The only reason you knocked the sentry over was because the engineer disabled it. You would of been killed had it not been turned off.

You made a bad decision that ended up killing and wounding 3 other marines. I couldnt heal them because they returned fire on you. However you were punished for this.

Had i not directly witnessed the events unfold your story would sound good, but i had front row seats as i watching and you had plenty of chances to make a better decision. You arent lying with how the events unfolded, but you are bending them in your favor.

Also future reference, when appealing dont start going on about our whole ban system and how we handle things. We arent going mainstream and your friend being banned has nothing to do with your appeal. As well, these type of events as you described it.. arent fun for the players who were randomly shot and put out of the game for 30minutes, no one enjoys that.

[Kailas]

Bro how am I out of range? It's pointed at me 5-7 blocks away, I don't know that. The whole thing lasted 3 seconds how do I know it's not just between bursts? Only reason I could react at all is it killed Xur first. If I had to shoot it till it actually died I would have, it really doesn't change the scenario.

You couldn't heal the marines but you could give a hacker's ban to the guy they intentionally got shot by? Doesn't follow, compadre. No marines would have been shot if they hadn't jumped in front to save the turret. At the point where marines turn a turret on survivors, tactically make sure the turret survives over the survivors, then gun down the remaining guy for shooting at the turret, what you have is most reasonably marine Aggro and is at most mutual combat. I didn't "force them to sit out for 30 minutes" they chose to bite that bullet for strategic reasons. Also they were involved in an interesting altercation that fit the circumstances, which is good for gameplay.

Also silencing criticisms isn't good for your game either, I just want apop to succeed because this game is a good game dev resume item if it doesn't get ruined by poor community management. Don't be so thin-skinned, it's good advice. People like Mikee could do a lot of good for your game and game devs. You couldn't take this game public if you wanted to since it's not your system or creative material but that doesn't mean you shouldn't show pride and put your best foot forward.

What "better decision"? Die? My alternative was to die. You're making it sound like there was time for debate and developments, I literally limped 4-5 steps towards comms, then 3 steps directly west (where my gun is in the picture) both because it was my remaining means of egress and because it gave me an angle around the turret-martyr. Waiting for the guy to move from comms entrance is speculative, I didn't know if he would.

But even by your own logic, a bad plan isn't against the rules. I wasn't griefing, I was shooting at a non-player. You gotta worry less about coloring in the lines, man, as long as people are coloring and not sabotaging.

[TR-BlackDragon]

Alright after looking at what has been discussed here. From what I see this ban is legit. You fired on friendlies. If you had died they would have cloned you. Since its still in game. I've been shto by turrets many times as a survivor and not once did I try and shoot at it. My goal is get away quickly or fall next to allies. So as I see it this ban is to remain.

This is marked as resolved and I will lock in 24 hours.

[Kailas]

I did try to flee, as I typically would, fleeing wasn't an option. Shooting it was also still in game. I don't get it, if the bar for bans is hitting marines when you don't want/mean to everyone would be banned. You guys just coax facts and confirm bans because it's easier than admitting you make mistakes.

[Feweh]

I did try to flee, as I typically would, fleeing wasn't an option. Shooting it was also still in game. I don't get it, if the bar for bans is hitting marines when you don't want/mean to everyone would be banned. You guys just coax facts and confirm bans because it's easier than admitting you make mistakes.

Prior to this we had no interactions or anything what so ever. So i have 0 reason to lie or want you to be punished. I observed you get shot by the turret, walked out of sentry range and turn back to the sentry after it was disabled and shoot.

What i did was MODERATE the situation and observed you directly doing what I said above. You made a mistake, ruined a few players round and where punished for it.
Read our rules and understand them better for the future.

[Kailas]

I didn't accuse you of persecution, I just have no faith in your current rule system, it's very fragile and baseless and requires hack jobs like this thread to justify and that inevitably leads to bad player bases. It's a shame because this is a cool project but after this I have 0 faith in its future.

[apophis775]

Well, if you have no faith, I'll just deny and process this then.