Oprayx73's ban appeal

[oprayx73]

Your Byond ID:
Oprayx73
Character Name:
Tony Rigatoni
Type Of Ban (Job-ban, Timed Ban, Permaban):
timed, 4320 min length
Admin who banned you (if known):
mileswolfe
Total Ban Duration:
4320 minutes
Remaining Duration:
4317
What other servers do you play on?
hippie station
Are you now or have you been banned on any of them?
not banned currently, been banned before but successful
Reason for ban (If you have a Permaban, it should be the EXACT MESSAGE YOU GET WHEN YOU LOGIN with the Error code that looks like this: X##XXX##. If you do not provide this EXACTLY you can't be unbanned):
Reason: improper escalation of lethal force, killed a marine that stole from him.
Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc):

I yell at him for stealing, and clearly unwield my gun so i can try and disarm him with my empty hand.


disarm him, gun goes off

disarmed again, dropped his m37 shotgun he was carrying whilst also holding the ppsh,
and i get ready to use the aim feature to hold him up.

Afterwards, he keeps walking around WHILST HAIVNG A GUN POINTED AT HIM, after shooting due to his movement, he fires back, then we're in firefight mode and he clearly wants to start a kill me or kill you fight.
by SHOOTING back during my aiming, he obviously gives consent to such a fight. if for SOME reason he didnt, he shouldve STOPPED moving, dropped it, WAIT for me to lower my aim, then walk off.



finally get it back, and i dont even search for the mag since im too pre-occupied making sure he makes it back alive.
i grab him, get him to raspy, try and bandage but he dies on the rasputin. I make sure he's got an alive dude taking him off the raspy when it arrives and i leave.

I don't understand how that could be seen as failure to escelate, it clearly took the steps and confirmation from both parties, i can't just call MP's in the middle of the caves or near the pred temple.
It was supposed to be the quickest nonharmful way to get it back after a three-minute goosechase of him just running around aimlessly not even speaking back to me.
If he really wanted to live, he'd just stop squirming and give it back. as simple as that. I feel like miles was a little rushed, not taking into account absolutely everything and i don't blame 'em,
he banned me literally probably a few seconds after server restart.

[MilesWolfe]

You didnt take the proper steps, or get confirmation from them, they reported it. the proper way to escalate lethal force is as follows (Argument > Pushing/Shoving/punching > Melee weapons > Guns) it involves two or more players who consent to it, and ROLEPLAY the situation. Calling someone who stole a gun that you were dragging on the floor a cuckhold and a faggot, then chasing them down and shooting them, is not how you properly escalate lethal force. Because, as said very clearly in our rules regarding it, " The key part of "Lethal Force" is that it is Roleplayed" This, was not roleplay.

[oprayx73]

You didnt take the proper steps, or get confirmation from them, they reported it. the proper way to escalate lethal force is as follows (Argument > Pushing/Shoving/punching > Melee weapons > Guns) it involves two or more players who consent to it, and ROLEPLAY the situation. Calling someone who stole a gun that you were dragging on the floor a cuckhold and a faggot, then chasing them down and shooting them, is not how you properly escalate lethal force. Because, as said very clearly in our rules regarding it, " The key part of "Lethal Force" is that it is Roleplayed" This, was not roleplay.

yeah i had the greatest chance to RP with this guy due to him actually legit just running away as fast as can away from me.
Under your understanding of the rules, there's NO way i could EVER get my things back. You shouldve just stopped me at "he stole it, its 100% legit. dont even try to take it back"

because theres no way i can. Also, he OBVIOUSLY consented to fighting if he just started shooting back at me. You'd think if he didnt want to get scrapped taking something, he'd surrender.
Like i said in ahelps, i literally stopped for a few seconds to drop my m41a to put what i was dragging on my armour and he didnt even take a second to ask me anything. This tier chart you've made;
(Argument > Pushing/Shoving/punching > Melee weapons > Guns) I simply missed ONE step, as in melee weapons ( i didnt have a machete or anything else, i am going to be honest i forgot i had a knife in my boot)
that doesn't make my entire arguement false in the fact he fought back, stole, and was completely asking for it for acting that way when initially stealing, midway of his theft, and when provoked to choose weither to fight or give up. Like you said, it WASN'T roleplay because this guy doesn't know how to! Is it my fault he's daft? Ignorance is no excuse, he shouldve been prepared to RP an IC issue such as theft.

[oprayx73]

yeah i had the greatest chance to RP with this guy due to him actually legit just running away as fast as can away from me.
Under your understanding of the rules, there's NO way i could EVER get my things back. You shouldve just stopped me at "he stole it, its 100% legit. dont even try to take it back"

because theres no way i can. Also, he OBVIOUSLY consented to fighting if he just started shooting back at me. You'd think if he didnt want to get scrapped taking something, he'd surrender.
Like i said in ahelps, i literally stopped for a few seconds to drop my m41a to put what i was dragging on my armour and he didnt even take a second to ask me anything. This tier chart you've made;
(Argument > Pushing/Shoving/punching > Melee weapons > Guns) I simply missed ONE step, as in melee weapons ( i didnt have a machete or anything else, i am going to be honest i forgot i had a knife in my boot)
that doesn't make my entire arguement false in the fact he fought back, stole, and was completely asking for it for acting that way when initially stealing, midway of his theft, and when provoked to choose weither to fight or give up. Like you said, it WASN'T roleplay because this guy doesn't know how to! Is it my fault he's daft? Ignorance is no excuse, he shouldve been prepared to RP an IC issue such as theft.

Actually this appeal shows a gap in the rules. If i'm supposed to have a two-way RP confrontation, and one side is not even trying to compete/respond, what do i do? I really didnt have the opportunity to ahelp either.

[Sarah_U.]

I added a rule amongst my past communities:
RP-Avoiding. Basically it's the act of willingly avoiding a confrontation or situation to avoid roleplay.
People stealing and avoiding to roleplay it / the confrontation would have to return the item and possibly face a kick+ if not cooperating (But we're talking about realistic RP server on another game so).

Problem with that, is that it's hard to monitor and generally just put more work & stress around.

[freemysoul]

I have seen an increasing amount of Herp A Derp firefights going on, Mostly over minor and petty things. HOWEVER without any form of attacklogs of the guy firing on you, it makes this ALOT harder to track and deal with.

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Banned by mileswolfe | Duration: 4320 minutes | Reason: improper escalation of lethal force, killed a marine that stole from him by MilesWolfe (Moderator) on Tue, July 5th of 2016 

Let's have a lookski at your chat between you and Miles.

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[19:14:14]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): so you called a marine a faggot, a cuckhold, and killed them, becuase they picked up a gun you were dragging around?
[19:14:30]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): i tried holding him hostage and it kept shooting him i guess cause he kept running
[19:15:01]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): then i conciously placed him on the rasp so he can get home safe
[19:15:11]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): even tried saving his life and was about 2 seconds late bandaging him
[19:15:26]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): well maybe you shouldnt have pointed the gun at him in the first place
[19:15:32]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): maybe he shouldnt have stolen
[19:15:39]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): and gone on a goose chase for 3 minutes streight
[19:16:10]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): and thats reason reason enough to threaten to shoot them?
[19:16:18]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): i was justified in holding him up so i can get my shit back, it wouldve been much smoother if he could stop moving around
[19:16:33]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): its a shame he had to die, but y'know
[19:16:56]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): what im i going to do, let him waltz off with my shit? i was about to put down my m4a1 and put what i was dragging on my armour
[19:17:13]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): im sorry, but when you steal from the RO and they hold you up this is the same principle
[19:22:25]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): yeah well your getting banned, regarless of wheither or not you wanted to just hold him up, you chose a course of actions that resulted in you killing him
[19:22:46]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): so, if a marine starts VIOLENTLY attacking an MP and returns fire, killing him, is that not ok?
[19:23:04]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): he kind of asked for it, squirming around whilst having a gun pointed at him.
[19:23:07]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): he didnt violently attack you, he took a gun that you were dragging
[19:23:25]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): he STOLE from me, refused to give it back when i had a very persuasive tool in my hand pointed at him.
[19:23:40]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): and then ended up trying to BOOK it, wondering why he cought bullets
[19:24:01]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): "i played with matches and got burnt ooh.."
[19:24:17]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): if someone steals from you, you report it to an mp you dont shoot them to death
[19:24:23]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): MP's on the planet eh
[19:24:42]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): and i DIDNT really kill him, if he had the WILL and SMARTS to live, he'd know giving it back to me is the right course of action
[19:24:50]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): mps on the planet is a thing, they can come down to arrest a marine
[19:24:56]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): And i hope you know his death is NOT my intention at all
[19:25:07]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): i hope you can tell that by how hard i tried to save him after he fell
[19:27:32]ADMIN: PM: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe)->Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni): ill take that into account, you still killed him
[19:28:26]ADMIN: PM: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)->MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe): holding him up was the only option to get it quickly back in my hands safe and sound, i can't control the actions of others like him moving 
[19:33:10]ADMIN: MOD: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe) : lets get this out there, toni calls a marine a faggot, a cuckhold and kills him, over a gun that he was dragging around and they took. He says, he was trying to hold them up, when they moved and the gun auto fired. I tell him it doesnt matter becuase he still killed, and should have been aiming at them in the first place. what do you think? just ban him and be done with it?
[19:33:58]ADMIN: MOD: Jerkface00/(Xiphos Volund) : certainly sounds like an improper escalation to me.
[19:34:36]ADMIN: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe) delayed the round end.
[19:35:24]ADMIN: mileswolfe has banned oprayx73 | Duration: 4320 minutes | Reason: improper escalation of lethal force, killed a marine that stole from him
[19:35:24]ADMIN: MilesWolfe/(Miles 'Boss' Wolfe) has edited oprayx73's notes: Banned by mileswolfe | Duration: 4320 minutes | Reason: improper escalation of lethal force, killed a marine that stole from him
[19:35:24]ACCESS: Logout: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni)

Well that was certainly an interesting converse between you and Miles. Also while mentors don't have any physical power over bans, their input can be somewhat helpful.

Let's Nitpick

so, if a marine starts VIOLENTLY attacking an MP and returns fire, killing him, is that not ok? No, it ISN'T ok for an MP to return LETHAL force, It quite clearly STATES that in the rules.

I'm sorry, but when you steal from the RO and they hold you up this is the same principle. Them DOING that is a RULE break, they are NOT the MPs they should be doing their OWN job not the MPs.

Excellent Suggestion from Miles here: if someone steals from you, you report it to an MP you don't shoot them to death.

so you called a marine a faggot, a cuckhold, and killed them, because they picked up a gun you were dragging around? If this is true then I myself would have already warned you JUST for that, Even though it's IC behaviour, this sort of behaviour is EXTREMELY shitty and frowned upon.

Logs time

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[19:05:29]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : CICKS
[19:05:36]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : YOU CUCKOLDDDD
[19:06:22]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : Fagot
[19:06:33]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : I need that shit back
[19:06:39]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : Cuck ran off
[19:06:57]ATTACK: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni) disarmed Llewellyn McIver ()
[19:07:04]ATTACK: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni) disarmed Llewellyn McIver ()
[19:07:24]ATTACK: Oprayx73/(Tony Rigatoni) disarmed Llewellyn McIver ()

Presuming they started aiming at them at around 19:07:40
 
[19:07:50]ATTACK: Tony Rigatoni (oprayx73) shot Llewellyn McIver () with a the rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=176;Y=125;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x30000f4]'>PM</a>)
[19:07:56]ATTACK: Tony Rigatoni (oprayx73) shot Llewellyn McIver ) with a the rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=178;Y=123;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x30000f4]'>PM</a>)
[19:08:00]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : Say sotp
[19:08:05]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : YOU CUCKOLD/
[19:08:07]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : YOU STOP
[19:08:11]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : GIVE IT NOW
[19:08:19]ATTACK: Tony Rigatoni (oprayx73) was hit by a the PPSh-17b Submachinegun, thrown by Llewellyn McIver (dunty) (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=192;Y=118;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
[19:08:20]ATTACK: Tony Rigatoni (oprayx73) shot Llewellyn McIver () with a the rifle bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=192;Y=118;Z=1'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x30000f4]'>PM</a>)
[19:09:59]ATTACK: Tony Rigatoni (oprayx73) injected Llewellyn McIver () with Tricordrazine Auto-Injector. Reagents: Tricordrazine (INTENT: GRAB) (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=190;Y=63;Z=1'>JMP</a>)
[19:10:20]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : Someone defib this cuck
[19:10:21]SAY: Tony Rigatoni/Oprayx73 : Goddamn why

Nowhere during the ENTIRE time of you "chasing" or "aiming" at them do I see attacklogs of you BEING fired upon, Nor do I see attacklogs of the Person disarming you.

Final Thoughts: Even though you DID attempt to save their life after them, Your course of actions and Rather brash responses to Miles, make it VERY unlikely your getting unbanned. As a sidenote I also believe that the amount of time your banned for was somewhat over the top. However these are my own opinions it is time to a Headstaff of Investigator to officially decide your punishment.

Additional Note: I myself haven't had real major issues with Oprayx73.

[Feweh]

Ban will stay.

You're in the middle of a fire-fight with aliens, someone picking up a gun youre dragging around isnt reason to end up shooting them.

[oprayx73]

Me nonviolently trying to get it back from his hands



him shooting back after having gun aimed at him



me clearly telling him to stop cause i don't even want to shoot him
like freemysoul said, i can understand the justification of how the ban was placed now, but i think 4320 is a bit long
for something that in my point of view is obviously kind of screwed up.

Ban will stay.

You're in the middle of a fire-fight with aliens, someone picking up a gun youre dragging around isnt reason to end up shooting them.

this whole incident happened about 5-6 minutes from marine win. nothing major was happening.

[MilesWolfe]

Someone picking up a gun youre dragging around isnt reason to end up shooting them.

I understand that its not fun when someone steals from you, but ultimately, this is the point that you were failing to see.

As for your time, its actually a bit lenient, as weve given out longer punishments or worse for similar cases. And with your constant arguing and drawing out the conversation during that round, i could have actually added even more time or even muted in correspondence to general rule 2 (Respect the Staff - If you have an issue with them, follow what they say, and then file a complaint. If you argue with the staff, expect to be muted or have your punishment increased.) With that in mind, I think i let you off pretty easy.

[Feweh]

Denied