Job-Ban Appeal

Fitchace · Post by **Fitchace** » 01 Oct 2016, 10:55

Your Byond ID:Fitchace

Character Name:Bill Carson

Type Of Ban (Job-ban, Timed Ban, Permaban):Job-ban from Commander and XO

Admin who banned you (if known):Snypehunter007

Total Ban Duration:Forever

Remaining Duration:

What other servers do you play on?CM

Are you now or have you been banned on any of them?None

Reason for ban (If you have a Permaban, it should be the EXACT MESSAGE YOU GET WHEN YOU LOGIN with the Error code that looks like this: X##XXX##. If you do not provide this EXACTLY you can't be unbanned):

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):None

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc):
The Story:
I join in 8 or so minutes into a round as commander. Over the radio comments are made such as “we are doomed” are made. As I head towards the bridge I hear a stunprod sound and come upon an MP who appears to have stunned herself with her own stick. I pick up the stick and stun the MP twice, because clearly the MP stunned herself and possibly likes that numbing feeling (I place the baton back on the floor). I head to the bridge and speak to my XO and BO’s and begin to formulate my mission plan. The stun MP arrives on the bridge and pulls the XO out to speak in private. I begin to have a suspicion of something shady going on. The MP comes back into the bridge and says I am under arrest for assault. I go into my CO office and more MP's show up. I state there is a mutiny by the MP’s, and call marines to the bridge. Some people are shot, and I believe 2 people die. I give out a briefing over the radio to add some structure that the XO endorses. After a conversation with Snypehunter007 it is deemed I am now under arrest for an assault charge. Other charges are added due to the conflict caused by me stating this is a possible MP mutiny. I am then job banned from XO and CO because of my excessive notes and warnings, and because the round was hindered because people died.

My Thoughts:
I don’t agree with this ban because I did not break any commander rules. The only un-commander like thing I did would be to stun prod the MP that stunned herself. I feel that it is unfair to punish me for others breaking the rules, it clearly states that ignorance is not an excuse when you join the server and players most control themselves when there is an IC issue in round. Also many of my notes are old and have a variety to them, not all pertaining to one thing. I don’t think my excessive notes are an excuse to job banning me as well.

If using a stun prod on someone is grounds for assault, and stun prods are used by MPs, and marine law states no one is above marine law, shouldn’t MP’s be arrested for assault if they use a stun prod?

I also request all my notes posted below this post including the job ban notes.

slc97 · Post by **slc97** » 01 Oct 2016, 12:09

Okay, so I got called in to assist on this situation since Freemysoul was involved. Snypehunter and I both consulted on this before determining what to do with you. So I'm going to layout what occurred and our reasoning in a basic fact pattern.

You as CO stunbatonned an MP twice with absolutely no cohesive RP reason to do so. This warranted an IC arrest. Instead of taking the IC slap on the wrist, you massively hindered the round by starting a riot of the marines vs. the MPs by saying that the MPs were trying to mutiny when they did not mutiny. I have no idea what kind of commander in the world would ever claim a mutiny is occurring when it is not unless you're trying to be all "lolz my character is crazy". Your actions wound up in more than one death and hindered the round completely. As CO you contributed heavily to an alien major.

Now for the conclusion Snype and I drew. We wanted to be lenient while still trying to properly handle the situation, especially considering we were dealing with some who has a history and reputation like yours. What we decided was to simply jobban you from XO/CO and still allow you access to the other command roles. We made sure you were jailed ICly so that the job ban could begin it's effect without us having to server ban you and keep you out of later rounds. I fully stand by what Snype did in this situation.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do occasionally love me some Bill Carson, but that doesn't mean we can turn a blind eye to rule breaks. I would say that because this occurred only on September 27th, we let it sit for a week or two more and then consider lifting it.

Westhybrid · Post by **Westhybrid** » 01 Oct 2016, 14:28

I'll be investigating the appeal.

BeyondMyLife · Post by **BeyondMyLife** » 01 Oct 2016, 15:03

I'm Dying here, I'm Netra 'Cuyan' Kyram, the MP who batonned themselves upon seeing carson, which I fessed up to the admins that I did wrong, and you came up and /KNOCK ME OUT/ with a stun baton, so I get an assault charge on you, as you broke marine law, so we go to the bridge, I pull the XO out, and tell him what you did, and such, so he agrees to it, and so I go in to make the arrest, you run into your office and yell that there is a mutiny, marines to the bridge, In the clusterfuck that ensued, Sarah was trying to drag people out of the bridge entrance, and got gunned down, I ran over near Sarah and got shot and my head broken, For around 3/th's of the round, the MP's were in hiding with a massive manhunt going on, the XO was trying to have us all executed, including any marines who decided to side with us, We couldn't get medical attention because of this. At what point did you think that Contacting USCM High command ((AKA the admins)) Would have not been a good idea before instantly starting a riot that killed two people, and upped your charge to a Permabrig/execution.

The better question is: Why do you think you should be unbanned, without all the bullshit of 'I dindu nuffin'

Because look, We all know you broke more than a few rules here, regardless of how you try to toe the line, or lie to the admins, which i might add you lied to Snype and SLC about not claiming we were starting a mutiny in the first place, so we have that rule, right there, you broke RP, and literally made a crazy character **Cough cough** isn't allowed.

CDR Bill Carson [Sulaco (CO)] says, "Marines MP's are creating a mutiny" Bill Carson talks into the marine command radio headset SSGT Balto''Crunk''Dreg [Sulaco (SL)] says, "Not on my watch" CDR Bill Carson [Sulaco (CO)] says, "Report to the bridge asap"

Also, 'possibly' stated, Really? You called the marines to the bridge to stop the MP"s, never in there did you state whether you wanted it stopped Non-lethally or not, which with the amount of marines swarming MP's like fucking ants, they could have disarmed us and took our weapons, instead they shot the living shit out of us

Westhybrid · Post by **Westhybrid** » 01 Oct 2016, 15:32

► Show Spoiler

So. The last major note that Fitchace received due to dicking around as a CO was eleven months ago, and pretty much void at that point considering most of his activity up until now has been tolerable.

As for the incident regarding the MP's and the collapse of the round. It feels like the entire thing was an IC issue. If Fitchace lovetapped the MP with a stunbaton briefly, which to be honest, while not tactful RP-wise is not something to get worked up over considering it's a non-lethal at what I assume is the round start. So for this aspect, definitely an IC thing.

For the issue of MP's coming to arrest him and Carson, Fitchace probably should not have immediately assumed a mutiny was taking place at the round start, but I can see where he might jump to that conclusion. As for the firefight resulting in the deaths of two marines, they jumped into the fray of their own volition from the sound of it, as did anyone else who assumed the CO was being mutinied against. As the note states, he never gave the order to start a firefight. If anything, the marines who decided to use lethals on MP's should've been the ones being talked to and addressed of their conduct. Fitchace shouldn't have done it, but it's impossible to conclude that he did so with the intent of derailing the round. That said, it still happened, and I can understand where you're coming from in placing a full-job ban.

Which, while we're on the subject, I'm am finding it hard to understand how you're able to assert that Fitchace was entirely responsible for the Alien Major Victory for his actions, given that they only took place at the round start, and I have to assume the round lasted longer than an hour or so. A handful of pre-landing casualties is hardly a handicap. There's enough of a gap in time between the incident with Carson and the End-round that the marines and remaining command staff were arguably in control of their own destiny at that point, as is the usual, and given both testimonies, I can't see any plausible way Carson's actions would contribute that drastically to a loss, unless there's something either of you aren't telling me.

I entirely see where SLC and Snype are coming from on this, although I do think other bans should have been dished out to the other players who actually initiated the firefight, instead of passing all blame to him in some scapegoat scenario. I also, honestly, wouldn't have job-banned Fitchace, at least not in a permanent fashion. This entire disastrous event, whether you disagree or not, was mostly IC, and as such, should have been treated with as minimal involvement from the Staff as possible. The only reason Fitchace is receiving a permanent job-ban for these roles (of which most of us are even acutely aware he knows how to play) is because of the degree of damage that ensued afterward, but in the end, most of it wasn't with his direct involvement, and it's impossible to assert that he did so with malicious intent or even as an intentional act altogether.

My assessment of the situation would have been different. If you really want to muddle this down to an issue of Fitchace performing the Command Roles, they should have been given a warning at minimum or a timed job-ban of like a couple days. There are people who have done a whole lot worse that what Carson has done today or in the past who are still walking around with their Command permissions. What should have actually been done is a real ban of about a day or so for improper escalation, which is more accurate to the situation given the grade of damage and Fitchace's light involvement in lighting the powder keg.

That's my personal assessment. Handing it off to Feweh or TR.

BeyondMyLife · Post by **BeyondMyLife** » 01 Oct 2016, 16:14

Your shitting me, He had us hunted for at least an hour and a half, and your letting him get away with it?

Westhybrid · Post by **Westhybrid** » 01 Oct 2016, 17:35

BeyondMyLife wrote:Your shitting me, He had us hunted for at least an hour and a half, and your letting him get away with it?

I gave my assessment. It's not a ruling. TR and Feweh can make their own decision on what to do.

The majority of the interaction between Fitchace and the other players involved, yourself included, can be chalked down to an IC issue, which comes down to improper escalation, not necessarily poor conduct in command roles. I didn't say it was a good interaction. The ban could stay or be removed and I couldn't care either which way. I'm just looking at the facts in relation to our ruleset. Don't test me.

Post by **apophis775** » 01 Oct 2016, 18:50

Here's what's going to happen:
Both players are getting warning notes:

Beyond's is for: OOC in IC

FitChae is for: Batoning an MP.

Neither should have done either thing.

I'm removing the job-ban, as I don't believe it was necessary.

Continued action by these players like this WILL result in increasing punishments.

Job-Ban Appeal

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