Speed nerf, community opinion and civil speach

[Sarah_U.]

Give Marines a "scout" version of their M3 armor (no/little speed debuff but lower protection) like what appears in the sniper boxes for specialists, if you're intent to keep the marine speed nerf, that way the gameplay style I'd like to call "Aggressive" (Not a rambo, but rather one who is in the front most of the times and takes more risk. For example, going after a xeno whos been hit multiple times and is near critical to finish off.)

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10566
I've posted this if you're interested.

[MrJJJ]

I don't see why was this needed, like, at all, drones shouldn't be out there fighting marines, neither sentinels, and this just seems to encourage more turtling, and so i will say this


Do you want marines to make ridiclous FOB's, or do you want them to fight?

[Desolane900]

Jesus christ the post above me.

Tl;dr = Salt.

Edit: This nibba is literally quoting the most notorious shitposter this server has seen in 2016 as a point to help his case. Godspeed little miner.

[LocalizedDownpour]

I'd like to state personally I don't care. Its just like anything else.

[jaggaaff]

^long post is long

But he has a fair point, even if it is a bit aggressive.(Don't know why it was removed, care to elaborate?)

tl;dr He thinks devs didn't give enough thought to the background causes of why marines chase xenos in the first place and that the staff/devs haven't been transparent enough with the community.

[Boltersam]

I'd quite like better late game armour for the Marines, it gives a late game reward for those who survive and is easy to do. Faster and lighter (lower/no speed debuff) obtainable through research somehow.

Visible HUD markers will no doubt be harder to do, but should also be a goal.

[Eenkogneeto]

I've observed a bit and determined how I feel about it:
I don't think it was unwarranted, I do however think it could be toned back slightly for a number of reasons I won't get into.

[NoahKirchner]

A nerf to speed is just about the biggest nerf you could give either team. This encourages so much turtling that it's unreal, and I am pretty sure this is actively harming the game. The reason the previous winrate was 50/50 is because of A. hanger camping (which will be worse now, because who the hell can push when you're moving twice as slow as the things you're fighting), and B. Xenos making bad tactical choices (Rushing to hydro far too early at the game, not rushing the bridge when the marines are holding it and instead letting them get a foothold).

This update might be a little bit(?) better if the xenos received a nerf too, or the marines a buff, but alone this not only makes playing marine much more difficult, but it WILL ALSO CAUSE MORE TURTLING AND BULLSHIT HANGER DEFENSES.

As a xeno player AND a marine player, please, for the LOVE OF GOD, rollback the update.

(lol oh wait

The changes wont be reverted, youre open to discuss them but we've extensively discussed this in a meeting and over the past week.

)

[Shyguychizzy]

I mean yeah speed nerf might help preventing meta rushes maybe or easier to catch if they do meta rush but this with honesty will make rounds ridiculously go on even longer. What i noticed, a fucken B18 is faster than a B12 in which what the description says https://gyazo.com/5279fad44ddfc0e8fd343d5526fe1fa8. From what i noticed in a round. I mean probs should make a report unsure but I believe B12 should be standard speed being the staff sergeant trained in such armor as well should be a bit more mobile than the others. Personally not a fan of this major nerf..I presume is the most major nerf towards the marines so far. Understandable for certain spcs to be nerfed like Sadar or B18 spc or even smartgunner when in hand.

Edit: As well RIP saving marines+speed nerf fucks over pulling once again. RIP saving marines or dead marines.

[KingKire]

my thoughts on the speed nerf:

i think the jury is still out on how bad of nerf this is to marines but it does reveal some interesting things.

1. marines definitely should not be running at the same speed as other xenos while decked in full armor. This was a good call in my opinion
2. the nerf has indeed kept more marines from running rambo, which is good for both thematics and gameplay.
3. Possible gameplay flaw may have been exposed, in that marines might have been too reliant on the speed to get xeno kills. If turtling is proving to much, possibility might be to relook into having lower teir xenos be very slightly slowed when hit to give marines a chance at catching escaping xenos, accuracy buffs, etc.
4. as always, more data is definitely needed, but this was a good direction. Aliens could have been sped up or marines slowed down, and i think the nerf to marines was the better choice with less negative reactions ( there would probably have been more salt if xenos were sped up, making it even harder to click, etc)

[BalancedGeneral]

Honestly after the minor speed changes, I've seen much more working together going on and less baldies with 5 guns running down runners

[Renomaki]

Since the speed nerf, I begin to notice a horrible problem cropping up.

Marines are so desperate to go fast that they are outright refusing to wear their armor now. That armor not only protects against friendly fire, it also provides two more item slots, a hook for your rifle, and a flashlight. Apparently, marines would rather throw this all away for the sake of speed, which in the long run just hurts the marines even more.

I know it sucks to be slowed down, and even I am not all that into it either... But you can't get used to it if you don't try.

Instead of trying to fight it, marines need to work with what they got now and make the most of it. You might not win a lot of games, but at the very least, it is better to go down fighting with dignity than bawling about it and refusing to wear standard issue protection because it is too heavy for your liking.

Remember, REAL TROOPERS wear heavy ass shit that not only slows them down, it makes them TIRED.. And they suck it up. So should you.

[NoahKirchner]

Since the speed nerf, I begin to notice a horrible problem cropping up.

Marines are so desperate to go fast that they are outright refusing to wear their armor now. That armor not only protects against friendly fire, it also provides two more item slots, a hook for your rifle, and a flashlight. Apparently, marines would rather throw this all away for the sake of speed, which in the long run just hurts the marines even more.

I know it sucks to be slowed down, and even I am not all that into it either... But you can't get used to it if you don't try.

Instead of trying to fight it, marines need to work with what they got now and make the most of it. You might not win a lot of games, but at the very least, it is better to go down fighting with dignity than bawling about it and refusing to wear standard issue protection because it is too heavy for your liking.

Remember, REAL TROOPERS wear heavy ass shit that not only slows them down, it makes them TIRED.. And they suck it up. So should you.

Well seeing as how being fast is the only way that the marines can push, I'd encourage them to do it more. I hate marine campfests, as a xeno and as a marine, and this only encourages it.

[Renomaki]

Well seeing as how being fast is the only way that the marines can push, I'd encourage them to do it more. I hate marine campfests, as a xeno and as a marine, and this only encourages it.

Surely there has to be better ways for marines to push without speed being a factor?

Before, we had a lot of cases of rambos chasing after HUNTERS to ream them up the ass with hot lead. Marines hauling not just armor, but a backpack full of standard issue supplies and a gun should not be able to run as fast as an alien born to move swiftly with nothing to burden it.

Now, marines can't just run down xenos like they are part Sonic the Hedgehog. On the other hand, rather than inventing new tactics to compensate, they just resort to crippling themselves and the marines as a whole for the sake of speed, which just hurts everyone as a result.

[NoahKirchner]

Surely there has to be better ways for marines to push without speed being a factor?

Before, we had a lot of cases of rambos chasing after HUNTERS to ream them up the ass with hot lead. Marines hauling not just armor, but a backpack full of standard issue supplies and a gun should not be able to run as fast as an alien born to move swiftly with nothing to burden it.

Now, marines can't just run down xenos like they are part Sonic the Hedgehog. On the other hand, rather than inventing new tactics to compensate, they just resort to crippling themselves and the marines as a whole for the sake of speed, which just hurts everyone as a result.

Pushing, for marines, is basically a game of tug of war. They push, kill one or two xenos, and are pushed back. Think of it like dumbed down trench warfare.

Having the ability to properly attack the xenos without having to resort to standing near-still is very important if you're not looking for the chain-routs that send 100 marines back to the sulaco because they lost six. The only way for the marines to die en masse is for them to get caught overextending into the nest, if the marines are too scared to push because they are too slow whenever doing so, they're all gonna stick near the bridge or otherwise and fall back as they take one or two deaths, and eventually end up retreating and turtling the FOB or hangar camping the rasp.

Whenever the marines push, they kill one or two xenos. If the xenos are worth their salt, they push back, and remove a few helmets, maybe capture a marine or two. This continues, back and forth, until one side makes a decisive move. Either the marines push into the xenos and overpower them, or the xenos continue pushing into the marine ranks on their counterpush and end up throwing them into a retreat through overwhelming force/a nice flank or well timed boiler bombard. This new update makes running away from aliens while still shooting at them (so they can't just run up right behind you and gut you) much more difficult, as whenever you're holding a gun and able to shoot it, the faster castes are two or three times as fast as you are and can much more easily evade you.

A smaller list of things that the speed nerf makes even more difficult apart from the major one above.

Buckshot (can't get close enough for it to be properly used besides the small chance that a xeno pounces and misses and is not right next to you.)

Xeno pushes (marines are just gonna sit in the FOB, unable to properly form an offense, and retreat whenever you kill six of them and ugl you all in the rasp)

Dragging back wounded, dead, or otherwise incapacitated marines (gg anybody on the front lines who wants to drag back a dead guy if they're barely able to move as they come back? Xenos will just take them off to the corner of the colony as always.)

Leading marines (Nobody's gonna listen to a push order if pushing into the enemy is suicide)

[RadiantFlash]

Noah, Has hit the nail on the head.

As it stands, Marine assaults /depend/ on speed. They lack much else to make for an effective attack.
Things that they can use well in assaults are: Flame thowers, Orbital bombardments (Prior to cave attack), and spec weapons.

Mines and turrets can be set up offensively, but it can be super risky to do so.

As I said, marine attacks are all about momentum. If they can't build it, they're going to fail, every time.

Also, Maybe marines /should/ run down xenos?
When a xeno over-extends, thats litterally the only way to punish them. Now, xenos get off scott free, when they overextend, short of a rocket up their tailpipe.

doesn't help, that as I said, slowing marines down removes /any/ sense of counter play, against AOE attacks and ranged attacks.

If a spitter sights you, you're pretty boned.

[Logan_Wolf]

I've played a couple of rounds and here's what I think will stop the salt (everyone is whining about the nerf in ghost chat)

- Remove combat hugging
- Make xenos slow down when below %50 and %25 health
- Put researchable armor types as suggested above (light armor with more speed and low protection etc)

Marines can't fucking flank with the current movement speed right now, leaving the only option of defending and waiting for aliens to make a mistake. We need a researchable lighter armor and form up mobile flank teams, while the standart armored squads hold their grounds and advance slowly. Making lighter armor researchable will also make early rush impossible, marines would have to hold their ground first and rewarded for it if they don't lose FOB/too much men

[Karmac]

I expect to see more smartguns, their supressing fire that still causes dependable DPS will keep the marines from being pushed back by speedy xenos. Otherwise more SADAR uses for the instant scare that comes with one-shotting a T3.

[Logan_Wolf]

Wow seriously, something has to be done to rebalance. Ayy lmaos are just making fun of you now, knowing that it's impossible for you to catch them. Dancing in front of you and shit

[IgnisCorvus]

I always thought that armor was more a protection more agaisnt FF than xenos. Since the last use to attack to head and the only important defensive armor is the helmet. I dont see reason to, after arrive to the planet, remove your armor and moving with an acceptable speed. It was the reason of the numerous marines without armor in the planet. It could be good if the movement speed could be affected by the number and kind of items in the bag, but not the armor. If i am not wrong, marines is a fast in act part of the army.

[Durper]

I've come to terms with the speed nerf, I don't like it but it's there and no matter how much I scream and cry staff has the final say and power.

I'm just hoping it'll get better over time.

[Eenkogneeto]

I've come to terms with the speed nerf, I don't like it but it's there and no matter how much I scream and cry staff has the final say and power.

I'm just hoping it'll get better over time.

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Jokes aside, It has been tweaked since this thread was posted.

[Houlihan]

Mature sentinels can go in combat roles against marine clusters and live to tell the tale. Way easier to land neurotox with the horrible speed too. The shittiest xeno caste (sentinels, for instance) with a halfway okay player can dance around a squad all day and never die. Marines are unable to outrun a crusher at starting speed (i.e two steps into a charge), which is nice too, I guess.

Being able to chase hurt xenos (and often pay for it dearly) was what made a great chunk of the game fun. Teamwork is good, I practice teamwork but if you can't finish the xenos by running after them, you have to wait for them forever to make that one terrible mistake that allows you to kill them. This is what the game boils down to, waiting for xenos to slip, because as long as they are paying minimum attention (and they don't absolutely suck), they just can't die. Pursuing and killing a xenos you hurt made the game satisfying to play as marine. It's not the only thing, but it was one of those things. Now not only does one marines feels impotent, but even three, four, even whole groups just get bogged down by xenos dumping huggers, spitting acid with zero worries thanks to superior speed.

Being unable to flee from AOE stuns is also a big one (a queen is just FASTER than marines) and dodging pounces against skilled hunters is just a no-go. I could probably turn my life around and become a better person in the time it takes me to move from one tile to another.

Anyway, changes not being reverted, yadda yadda, muh balance.

I wish instead of nerfing marines you forced xenos to teamwork, which they seldom do (but destroy everything when they actually try). Marines always get ragged on for being "the shit ones" but it's mostly because you really have to make a conscious effort (or be braindead) to be a shit xeno. It takes two or so misclicks a round to be a baldie marine. Anyway, hugger combat removed soon (tm), I just hope the game won't stop being fun at all long before that.

[Derpislav]

The nerf would be balanced by making xenos gradually slow down as they become more injured, so there's no more "barely alive but made it to weeds" bullshit escapes.

But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Evan Stelf]

My personal opinion on this, which I doubt anyone cares about but it's nice to add on this, is that the speed nerfs makes the entire round slow down for marines. I liked colonial marines because I would run fast and enjoy fighting. Going slow now only makes me have a less of a desire to join a marine. Walking around while 50 mile an hour aliens slaughter everyone because we have prison shackles around our legs seems like a unneeded nerf to me.

My predictions for what this nerf will do to the server will:
A) Causes rounds to stall way longer then we have now, given the lack of motivation marines will have against attacking xenos now since they have walking speed now.
B) Aliens will slaughter marines very early on and quickly win rounds. This might be a bad thing for marines but I could see this happen a lot
C) People will complain on the forums about this every week asking for it to be changed, and it won't. So basically more salt on the forums that I don't want to see.

I don't think slowing the game down is a good way to balance the server. If anything it will cause more people to SSD or leave because they are bored of not being able to do as much now.

These are my opinions, you guys certainly have different view points and that's okay. Just wanted to get this outta here