Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion) (Poll Added)

[Artouris]

Might as well post in here. I'm totally fine with the breaches, although I am on the side of just throwing in the compression suits into the Sulaco so you don't die as quickly. The whole point is that the Rasp ramming into the Sulaco is a endgame. If marines push the xenos off (which is very hard but ultimately possible, just like most things) then they have won a very hardfought victory. If the xenos win then its because they've done the things they needed to succeed before hand. Its like being prepared for the boss battle that its a push over. The lag is not very important to note because the round will be over within say 10-20 minutes so any effect it has is not too major because we're not in the start of the game or midgame where its important.

Now to come from it in a realistic perspective because i know there's alot of people who are arguing there's no safeguards, etc. Yeah you'd be surprised how often stuff is put on so people do it and not machines and how often those people fuck it up. First to address the ship radar, it can detect the shuttle is inbound, which is normal. However for the ship to be able to tell where its going to crash is literally when its pretty much crashing INTO the ship. Since you can approach a ship then match its orbital velocity and move around the ship to dock properly. While you usually do this from 100+ meters and then gently move over to it in low thrust or using your RCS, you can still do it like 5 meters away as long as the engine exhaust doesn't fry the ship (i mean theres other effects too but you know what I mean). Also crashing into something in orbit follows almost the (almost) same pattern as docking so there's that to boot.

Next up since you have to realize that Aliens operates on future 70s/vietnam war era tech there's a few things you have to bring into consideration as well. The only reason the rasp or doppod is capable of flying itself is due to gameplay reasons. Mainly because sitting stuck on the Sulaco is boring if the PO is dead. However in the movie only the pilots and Bishop were trained to actually fly the dropship. Now I would be all for making pilots only capable of piloting the dropship and droppod from inside the cockpit of each but that won't happen. You could also fly the ship on remote control but again it would have to be done by pilots or Bishop. Along with that, for the longest time one of the leading cause of aircraft loss in the air force (still is for civilian air fleets though) is whats called "Controlled Flight Into Terrain" (CFIT) where quite literally the pilot rams the (perfectly fine) aircraft into the ground. To the point where the airforce has fielded a system in F-16s recently that will prevent you from ramming into the ground if unconscious (not sure on the if you are awake what it does) (Really cool video) not to mention that this is literally a completely newly developed system(small NASA article here). With these systems a situation that happens in aliens where the dropship crashes into the ground would NOT happen. Warning systems on the shuttle sure, but not crashing when about to crash is actually a hard thing to do.

So in the end, the crash without warning makes total sense from a realistic perspective, and so does the lack of safeguards to prevent it from ramming into the ship outside of collision warnings which wouldn't trigger anyway since the Sulaco is expecting the Dropship to be flown by a pilot who wouldn't ram into the Sulaco. It also makes sense from a perspective of how the movie was made with basically being future Vietnam tech. Also realistically there's gunna be a hole somewhere on the sulaco if something goes in where its not suppose to.

[Surrealistik]

Crash and instagib without warning is terrible from a gameplay perspective, and further, aliens don't actually have to win the conflict on the ground, or even come close, to board the Rasputin en masse for an autowin. All it takes is an FOB that's not at LZ1, and the majority of marines fucking around somewhere else.

[Crab_Spider]

Crash and instagib without warning is terrible from a gameplay perspective, and further, aliens don't actually have to win the conflict on the ground, or even come close, to board the Rasputin en masse for an autowin. All it takes is an FOB that's not at LZ1, and the majority of marines fucking around somewhere else.

Apop said that Queen's using this to attack Sulaco will be banned. Meaning, she has to actually drive the Marines back before she can use the Rasp

[Surrealistik]

Apop said that Queen's using this to attack Sulaco will be banned. Meaning, she has to actually drive the Marines back before she can use the Rasp

Using the Rasputin is apparently fair game so long as you're actually invading with it.

[apophis775]

So long as the queen is assaulting the sulaco, they can use it. They can NOT use it as a missile to just shoot at the Sulaco.

We are also working to adjust it so that anyone not on the sulaco will not be counted towards victory conditions, which triggers once the Aliens use the shuttle.

Meaning, if they get killed off the sulaco, then the marines can still get a minor.

[Eenkogneeto]

I've observed a lot of this and I can say that the only issue I've seen with the breaching is ayys getting stuck in the resulting space tiles when they are too large a gap, else wise it has not been /too/ big an impact. We can always give the ayys a bop on the nose if they go out of their way to depressurize the entire floor...But even then, oxygen masks are EVERYWHERE. Literally.
I was hesitant at first honestly but i feel the implementation is fine as is. I would like to see more smoke and fire involved if possible but that's more for looks than mechanics.

The one thing I would change: The ayys really should be stunned when it crashes, I /think/ as of right now they can immediately exit as soon as it crashes... Which is kind of silly if you think about it.

[NoahKirchner]

Because Feweh strongly implied I should post here:

This actually brings up a really good point. But in the past, especially because the LZs were moved around and because of the superiority of the Rasputin as a troop carrier, normally the LZ is based around the Rasputin. Still if the aliens got on the rasp while the majority of the marines were planetside, it was likely gg before, but this is definitely a lot more crippling (because nobody can send the pod if they're all floating in spess)

[Karmac]

So long as the queen is assaulting the sulaco, they can use it. They can NOT use it as a missile to just shoot at the Sulaco.

We are also working to adjust it so that anyone not on the sulaco will not be counted towards victory conditions, which triggers once the Aliens use the shuttle.

Meaning, if they get killed off the sulaco, then the marines can still get a minor.

This is absolutely necessary for marines to have any viable FOB's or defences anywhere aside from LZ1, I hope this is added sooner rather than later.

[Surrealistik]

So long as the queen is assaulting the sulaco, they can use it. They can NOT use it as a missile to just shoot at the Sulaco.

We are also working to adjust it so that anyone not on the sulaco will not be counted towards victory conditions, which triggers once the Aliens use the shuttle.

Meaning, if they get killed off the sulaco, then the marines can still get a minor.

It'll help a bit, but it does nothing to actually stop Rasputin rushing amounting to a de facto autowin.

[Liran343]

Question: if a manage to persuade the PO as a queen to fly the rasp back to the Saluco with all the xenos in it. Will I be able afterwards to call it down to the planetside without it crashing?

[Xenosandbox]

I don't think your gonna be persuading people as the queen :l but I'm pretty sure the queen can still call it down until it crashes.

[Monoo]

Add emergency lockers to briefing, command, and the escape hallway with combat hardsuits. Marines are not permitted to wear them unless a breached is confirmed ("Code Black") CE and MTs also get maintenance hardsuits plus magboots, to combat pressure changes. RO can order more suits n' boots, but pretty unlikely given the alien threat would need to be on board already for this to happen without metagaming.

Perhaps give them a less vanilla SS13 sounding name, like Combat/Tech Exoskeleton.

[Eenkogneeto]

I have to change my vote after some more observation, In theory it should be really atmospheric and add a lot to the round, In practice marines instantly decide the entire deck of the sulaco is lost and it extends the round another 2 hours even if its just two xenos. TWICE now I've seen marines outnumber ayys 5-1 and refuse to assault because of some slightly lower than normal pressure all because they don't know about the hundreds of oxygen lockers all over the walls of the sulaco or the 30-40 spacesuits dotting maint all over the ship.

[apophis775]

I'm thinking, of adding emergency spacesuit holders built into the walls around the Sulaco (each with probably 2-3 suits) so that one it impacts they can easily get spacesuits and pressure suits from anywhere.

[Surrealistik]

I have to change my vote after some more observation, In theory it should be really atmospheric and add a lot to the round, In practice marines instantly decide the entire deck of the sulaco is lost and it extends the round another 2 hours even if its just two xenos. TWICE now I've seen marines outnumber ayys 5-1 and refuse to assault because of some slightly lower than normal pressure all because they don't know about the hundreds of oxygen lockers all over the walls of the sulaco or the 30-40 spacesuits dotting maint all over the ship.

Another thing I predicted; nothing but net on my prognostications for this so far.

[Edgelord]

Another thing I predicted; nothing but net on my prognostications for this so far.

[Surrealistik]

You totally should; better design would surely result.

[slc97]

Looks like I missed the poll, but I'm gonna throw my two cents in here. I think it could probably do with a bit of a re-work.

If we add space suits, then we'll constantly have marines putting on spacesuits at times they don't need them and we'll be back where we were when firesuits were the big thing.
Also, we're not really based around space style and atmos breach combat like regular ss13 is. I mean, just earlier today, I saw a ravager take out 5 marines that should have killed him because he just danced around them until the pressure took them out. Even if we added the spacesuits, I feel like it would take away from the fundamentals of marine combat.

Perhaps it would be effective for the dropship to crash into the Sulaco about half or three-quarters of the way so that a portion of it is sticking out still that clogs the breach. It also avoids issues like what we had earlier today where the breach is spread completely throughout the Sulaco.

[Sneakyr]

+1 to slc's fix, if there's still time.

[masterspots]

Make the space suit holders only activate in the event of the breach, increase the armour on the space suits so they aren't useless?

[Karmac]

Another amazing showing of your complete incompetence to even enterain this idea. Whats the point of a 'win more'(its not really, its pretty useless) feature if everyone has space suits?

Off yourself and I feel that will be what finally helps this server along.

[Crab_Spider]

Looks like he's a troll, pretend he doesn't exist or he have to acknowledge whatever he says.

[Joe4444]

Looks like he's a troll, pretend he doesn't exist or he have to acknowledge whatever he says.

OOOOOOOOOH FUCK READ HIS BYOND ID! THE CRUSADER HAS RETURNED

[Crab_Spider]

OOOOOOOOOH FUCK READ HIS BYOND ID! THE CRUSADER HAS RETURNED

No way!

[ReadyReactor]

Issue with breaching from my observation right now is that its pretty much game over instantly.

Its too difficult for marines to battle atmos and aliens. Xenos will eventually spread the atmos and acid everything ruining any marine defenses.

It completely destroys and ruins the end game of the sulaco siege. Xenos already have a huge bonus of crushing marines with rasputin and bypassing all defenses. Its even toughe when they land and breach the entire area killing even more marines.

This.
It's been a xeno win i'd say 90% of the time I've been there.

Also , I don't know if it's intentional or not but it seems to always crash into either Tcomms (or next to it) or directly on the bridge, which marks the end for the marines as one is meaningless without the other and the loss of any means they're cut off from any hope of help or escape.