Update Powergaming Rules

[Snypehunter007]

Did you design the map? No? How do you know how the resources are distributed? There's not enough supplies in the engineer preps for two fully stocked engineers if one of them shows up early and takes everything. It's the nature of the beast.

The metal in engineering was designed specifically so that other combat engineers, as in the ones that matter in the game, can get extra metal if they so desire it. MTs and CE do not matter. Sorry. The round lives on just fine without them, and they absolutely do not need extra metal for anything. If they want the metal at round start they literally spawn right there in front of them. Put it in your backpack maybe?

Why do marines take extra guns down with them? They aren't expecting hostile enemies, right? Why take food down with them, there's food down there, right? By logic then nobody should ever take anything down to the planet that they don't start with in their prep room. It's intentional that players can put in effort pre-round to get more gear. You're punishing people now for 'maximizing their loadout?' Having no idea if you'll need them is WHY YOU TAKE THINGS WITH YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE. A good engineer is prepared for any eventuality. A bad engineer gets screamed at for not bringing enough stuff.

According to Apop, it is powergaming. Back on to the OP please everybody. Thank you Nightcaper for putting it back on track.

[Feweh]

So basically we need to remove access to engineers to stop them from stealing supplies from engineer, gotcha.

This is another example of "this is why we cant have nice thingss"

[slc97]

Did you design the map? No? How do you know how the resources are distributed? There's not enough supplies in the engineer preps for two fully stocked engineers if one of them shows up early and takes everything. It's the nature of the beast.

The metal in engineering was designed specifically so that other combat engineers, as in the ones that matter in the game, can get extra metal if they so desire it. MTs and CE do not matter. Sorry. The round lives on just fine without them, and they absolutely do not need extra metal for anything. If they want the metal at round start they literally spawn right there in front of them. Put it in your backpack maybe?

Why do marines take extra guns down with them? They aren't expecting hostile enemies, right? Why take food down with them, there's food down there, right? By logic then nobody should ever take anything down to the planet that they don't start with in their prep room. It's intentional that players can put in effort pre-round to get more gear. You're punishing people now for 'maximizing their loadout?' Having no idea if you'll need them is WHY YOU TAKE THINGS WITH YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE. A good engineer is prepared for any eventuality. A bad engineer gets screamed at for not bringing enough stuff.

No, I did not design the map. I instead assisted heavily in the rule rewrite with Rahl as well as the rest of the moderators. I also enforce the rules every single day and assist the other moderators in enforcing the rules, and if I'm not mistaken, this is a thread regarding the powergaming rules.

Guns are standard equipment, basic medicine is standard equipment. You as an engineer are given your basic standard equipment. We have always defined and enforced round-start powergaming as taking more than your basic standard equipment.

A spec pulling an extra power pack with him is taking more than his standard basic equipment and is powergaming. A medic taking a medivendor Planetside is taking more than his basic standard equipment and is powergaming. A standard carrying a shotgun on his back and two gyro rifles is min-maxxing, taking more than his basic standard equipment, and is powergaming. An engineer taking extra supplies down at round-start is taking more than their basic standard equipment and is powergaming.

[Swagile]

No, I did not design the map. I instead assisted heavily in the rule rewrite with Rahl as well as the rest of the moderators. I also enforce the rules every single day and assist the other moderators in enforcing the rules, and if I'm not mistaken, this is a thread regarding the powergaming rules.

Guns are standard equipment, basic medicine is standard equipment. You as an engineer are given your basic standard equipment. We have always defined and enforced round-start powergaming as taking more than your basic standard equipment.

A spec pulling an extra power pack with him is taking more than his standard basic equipment and is powergaming. A medic taking a medivendor Planetside is taking more than his basic standard equipment and is powergaming. A standard carrying a shotgun on his back and two gyro rifles is min-maxxing, taking more than his basic standard equipment, and is powergaming. An engineer taking extra supplies down at round-start is taking more than their basic standard equipment and is powergaming.

Having extra guns isn't standard basic equipment, and engineers aren't given basic standard equipment; they're given enough to make a FOB that would make even an African slum rat laugh at them. And a lot of the time that is taken by only one engineer who most likely is tired of poorly designed powergaming rules and just doesn't want to get pinged by admins when he goes down to Engineering to grab shit, so the other combat engineer is now stuck with nothing unless he wants to get banned.

A medic taking the entire vendor's worth of supplies isn't powergame but taking the vendor itself is? The standard example is so extreme that its laughable and almost never happens because you have no room for ammo, so nice attempt there. The general amount of powergaming we're talking about is someone taking one M4A1 and one shotgun, carrying one in hand and one in suit storage while still having a backpack and ammo rig for ammo / empty oxy medkit with ammo + meds.

Again, either make combat engis not start with access so you can continue this hypocrisy or allow MP's to deal with it IC by arresting combat engis that take extra metal / glass / plastisteel. I say hypocrisy because every other type of powergame ive never been pinged about (aka grabbing minor medical supplies, tons of flares, and enough ammo to fight a war by myself) yet combat engis making their own metal / grabbing existing metal from Sulaco Engineering is powergaming?

Lol.

[Feweh]

Having extra guns isn't standard basic equipment, and engineers aren't given basic standard equipment; they're given enough to make a FOB that would make even an African slum rat laugh at them. And a lot of the time that is taken by only one engineer who most likely is tired of poorly designed powergaming rules and just doesn't want to get pinged by admins when he goes down to Engineering to grab shit, so the other combat engineer is now stuck with nothing unless he wants to get banned.

A medic taking the entire vendor's worth of supplies isn't powergame but taking the vendor itself is? The standard example is so extreme that its laughable and almost never happens because you have no room for ammo, so nice attempt there. The general amount of powergaming we're talking about is someone taking one M4A1 and one shotgun, carrying one in hand and one in suit storage while still having a backpack and ammo rig for ammo / empty oxy medkit with ammo + meds.

Again, either make combat engis not start with access so you can continue this hypocrisy or allow MP's to deal with it IC by arresting combat engis that take extra metal / glass / plastisteel. I say hypocrisy because every other type of powergame ive never been pinged about (aka grabbing minor medical supplies, tons of flares, and enough ammo to fight a war by myself) yet combat engis making their own metal / grabbing existing metal from Sulaco Engineering is powergaming?

Lol.

The more you post on the forums the more I've come to realize how shitty your roleplay, lore knowledge and understanding of the rules are.

Generally I'd counter this with facts and knowledge, but I feel as if its a pointless discussion to have with someone who doesnt understand the basics of anything ever.

So we've gotten to the point where your opinion no longer has any value what so ever to me anymore.

[slc97]

Having extra guns isn't standard basic equipment, and engineers aren't given basic standard equipment; they're given enough to make a FOB that would make even an African slum rat laugh at them. And a lot of the time that is taken by only one engineer who most likely is tired of poorly designed powergaming rules and just doesn't want to get pinged by admins when he goes down to Engineering to grab shit, so the other combat engineer is now stuck with nothing unless he wants to get banned.

A medic taking the entire vendor's worth of supplies isn't powergame but taking the vendor itself is? The standard example is so extreme that its laughable and almost never happens because you have no room for ammo, so nice attempt there. The general amount of powergaming we're talking about is someone taking one M4A1 and one shotgun, carrying one in hand and one in suit storage while still having a backpack and ammo rig for ammo / empty oxy medkit with ammo + meds.

Again, either make combat engis not start with access so you can continue this hypocrisy or allow MP's to deal with it IC by arresting combat engis that take extra metal / glass / plastisteel. I say hypocrisy because every other type of powergame ive never been pinged about (aka grabbing minor medical supplies, tons of flares, and enough ammo to fight a war by myself) yet combat engis making their own metal / grabbing existing metal from Sulaco Engineering is powergaming?

Lol.

Call hypocrisy all you like. It doesn't make you less wrong.

[Aetsuki]

Environmental? Same issue, no protection against a tornado or whatever environmental hazard.

Let me just strap into my tornado-proof vest.

[Swagile]

The more you post on the forums the more I've come to realize how shitty your roleplay, lore knowledge and understanding of the rules are.

Generally I'd counter this with facts and knowledge, but I feel as if its a pointless discussion to have with someone who doesnt understand the basics of anything ever.

So we've gotten to the point where your opinion no longer has any value what so ever to me anymore.

So you devalue my opinion by just saying its shitty instead of explaining why?

*golfclap ok mate.

Which part of the rules did I cite that was wrong? How was what I was saying related to roleplay in any sense of the word? And how does the rules / powergaming in general related to the lore in this case?

No one starts on this server knowing everything, and the fact that you assume so is an elitist frame of mind that isn't very healthy towards new players.

But hey, what do I know, I guess im just a newbie so my opinions don't matter anymore :^))))))

Call hypocrisy all you like. It doesn't make you less wrong.

Saying someone is wrong without stating why is not an argument.

Let me just strap into my tornado-proof vest.

Its the future, and they have medical robots, space ships, war ships IN space, and many other technological advancements. So why not? Im sure there is a specialized group out there that has figured out these problems and how to survive in them with a special kind of environmental suit or something. Weyland can't be the only Corporation / Massive entity out there with cool technology.

[Aetsuki]

Honestly I just wanted to make a tornado suit joke. Yes there's theoretical things now that can withstand a tornado, but that's beyond the point.

[Swagile]

Honestly I just wanted to make a tornado suit joke. Yes there's theoretical things now that can withstand a tornado, but that's beyond the point.

Considering the responses I got, I believed you were being sarcastic.

Sorry for my response if it was just a joke, its hard to get context in text so I based it around the posts I got before hand, which I classed as rather rude.

[Aetsuki]

Considering the responses I got, I believed you were being sarcastic.

Sorry for my response if it was just a joke, its hard to get context in text so I based it around the posts I got before hand, which I classed as rather rude.

Nah. There was no point in telling you what everyone else already tried to. That's not to say I think you're right, of course, but you've clearly made up your mind on the subject and noone will convince you otherwise.

[Karmac]

So basically we need to remove access to engineers to stop them from stealing supplies from engineer, gotcha.

This is another example of "this is why we cant have nice thingss"

Honestly I'd rather this than the current "If you don't know about it you'll probably get a note/ban for doing it" and it's become pretty clear to me people still do it due to how flawed the idea of 'but it's common sense hurr durr' is in a game where your entire playerbase is either idiots, powergamers, or just want to kill bugs.

[KingKire]

My thoughts on the matter:

-IMO, This is a mechanical/gameplay issue.
To put it into perspective, marines used to riot about not receiving attachments in time during the game start. For the longest time, this was regarded as a "IC" issue. In reality, this was a gameplay issue. The RO was designed for a smaller playerbase when in fact it had grown quite large. Once the mechanical issue was addressed by redesigning the RO, the problem with riots almost completely dried up. Yes, it does require a LITTLE more front end effort, but the release of stress on the staff AND the player base more then made up for it.

-Engineers should NOT have access to MT areas.
Either you treat the engineers as an equal to their MT counterparts or you keep them separate. In real life, combat engineers are NOT allowed to have free access to the maintenance areas of the ship they are deployed on. This is for both safety and logic reasons. CM should follow suit on this issue.

But what if there are no MT's to start the engine?
-Combat engineers should not be starting engines, at all.
-To put another nail in the coffin, there is no real reason why MT's should be starting a ships engine that has recently arrived from travel. This is a weak gameplay feature for a class that overall needs to be looked at and re-evaluated IMO.

But what if there are holes in the ship and no MT's to patch them up?
-Any engineer worth their salt can find a way through a door in an emergency. If they are needed that badly to recover the ship, then they can get past that door. If they cant, then you wouldn't want them fixing the ship in the first place.

More metal?:
-IMO i think CM should really think about placing 3 stacks of metal for round start instead of 2. Yes, you can ask for more at engineering, but as i have said above, the game of CM has changed over the seasons and engineering should reflect that.
-Aliens have gotten more destructive: almost all aliens now have access to cut away girders within 20-40ish minutes of time.
-Alien acid has evolved to melt at a faster pace: what used to take 2-3 minutes of time to melt standard/reinforced walls can be reduced to about 30ish seconds with evolution's.
-Crushers have also evolved to be more effective at destroying walls.
-Gameplay overall has sped up. what used to be 4-5 hour rounds has moved to 1-3 hours. Engineering lacks time to gather enough metal to set up heavily reinforced FOB's.

So basically we need to remove access to engineers to stop them from stealing supplies from engineer, gotcha.
This is another example of "this is why we cant have nice thingss"

It sucks that engineers would lose access to maintenance, but in reality, they shouldnt even have access in the first place. If the game is to head towards a particular goal of simulating the aliens experience, then this would be a right step forward.

[Snypehunter007]

This issue has been resolved.

Asking this to be locked.

[Nick123q23]

Whether or not people consider something powergaming, if it's enforced by staff and commonly happens it should be added as an example of a rule violation.

This stops people from doing it and stops people from getting in trouble for it. It's a win win for everyone. +1

EDIT: whoops, didn't notice there was a third page.

[Feweh]

Denied