Huggerless combat AFTER the test

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

though the AoE skill has more of an offensive use than defensive when it's around.A skilled crusher *coughtoroiccough* is able to more or less handle a squad of five or so marines. And don't tell me this isn't possible, for I've seen it happen.

[Renomaki]

As much as people are disappointed with how the Crusher turned out, I myself am ok with it, mainly because now other caste are viable now.

The problem with Crushers pre-test nerf is that, compared to the other T3s, it was the best of the bunch. It has a shield that can protect against most bullets, can laugh off the majority of explosives, can run super fast in a single direction (which can be useful for getting into or out of a fight), and has a stomp that acts like a smaller screech. Sure, they don't do as much damage compared to other xenos, but they can still kill pretty damn good if they can close the gap in a tight hallway and stomp/tackle you down. Heck, I think most robust crushers have tackle active by default due to how easy it is to tackle as a crusher.

Other T3s don't compare well to the Crusher when you think about it. Ravagers are fireproof glass cannons that can do a lot of damage and delimb with ease, but it is very easy to get killed as one unless you do a lot of hit-and-run from the shadows. Praes are heavier spitters that deal more damage with their spits and can emit buffs to surrounding aliens, but are so frowned upon that if you so much as even THINK about going as a prae, you are belittled. And Hivelords? They are just drones on steroids.

Crushers have so many benefits compared to other T3s that it is pretty obvious why xenos tend to spam them in such large number over other types of tiers, to the point that multi-crusher games tend to result in steamrolls if the crusher players are robust. I think the nerf (even if it was only for the test) is welcome, if only to give other tiers a chance for once and not have crushers hog the spotlight all the time.

[Karmac]

As much as people are disappointed with how the Crusher turned out, I myself am ok with it, mainly because now other caste are viable now.

The problem with Crushers pre-test nerf is that, compared to the other T3s, it was the best of the bunch. It has a shield that can protect against most bullets, can laugh off the majority of explosives, can run super fast in a single direction (which can be useful for getting into or out of a fight), and has a stomp that acts like a smaller screech. Sure, they don't do as much damage compared to other xenos, but they can still kill pretty damn good if they can close the gap in a tight hallway and stomp/tackle you down. Heck, I think most robust crushers have tackle active by default due to how easy it is to tackle as a crusher.

Other T3s don't compare well to the Crusher when you think about it. Ravagers are fireproof glass cannons that can do a lot of damage and delimb with ease, but it is very easy to get killed as one unless you do a lot of hit-and-run from the shadows. Praes are heavier spitters that deal more damage with their spits and can emit buffs to surrounding aliens, but are so frowned upon that if you so much as even THINK about going as a prae, you are belittled. And Hivelords? They are just drones on steroids.

Crushers have so many benefits compared to other T3s that it is pretty obvious why xenos tend to spam them in such large number over other types of tiers, to the point that multi-crusher games tend to result in steamrolls if the crusher players are robust. I think the nerf (even if it was only for the test) is welcome, if only to give other tiers a chance for once and not have crushers hog the spotlight all the time.

rather than dropping the Crusher in the trash, a balance between tank and CC king would have been much more appreciated I feel. lack of ability to properly balance things is really gonna hurt both sides sooner or later if this continues.

for example, today we had a round where the hive had 8 crushers, all of them died less than an hour and a half into the round.

[Swagile]

Only a quarter of those Crushers died legitimately, the other 6 died round start rushing the LZ1 FOB alone with no weeds or dying alone out in the snow instead of with the rest of the hive. It is still a legitimate concern, however, because Crushers are relegated to a role similar to Drone except a Ancient drone can do your job better by spamming Resin walls than a crusher currently could.

The only job that the Crusher thrived in was going in, stunning, then covering his fellow fallen xenos as they are dragged back. Now, though, your just a mobile wall that can just be surrounded, making you waste a T3 slot because charging in = death against marines who are brave enough to charge with a bayonet and / or buckshot shotty.

[Renomaki]

rather than dropping the Crusher in the trash, a balance between tank and CC king would have been much more appreciated I feel. lack of ability to properly balance things is really gonna hurt both sides sooner or later if this continues.

for example, today we had a round where the hive had 8 crushers, all of them died less than an hour and a half into the round.

I heard of that recently. I don't know why they felt the need to make so many, though... Or how they were even able to do that in the first place.

As for balance, things will never be properly balanced. Apop himself said he wanted it to be unbalanced to make things more interesting, because otherwise the whole "Marines overcoming a dangerous threat" thing wouldn't be a thing, and then the server would be just a generic team deathmatch server. It will always be a bit tipsy, but will it be tipsy enough to be enjoyable? In due time hopefully, but for now, they got a long ways away from perfection.

[Toroic]

The problem with Crushers pre-test nerf is that, compared to the other T3s, it was the best of the bunch.

In terms of power, Boiler is actually the strongest of the T3's, but as a siege xeno it is easily picked off without support. Crusher before the hugger test was/is overpowered, but perfectly in line once they lose huggers. Crushers without huggers are very balanced since the incendiary buffs compared to ravs and carriers. Prae are still weak.

It has a shield that can protect against most bullets

Young Crushers have garbage deflection. Mature crushers are directionally resistant to bullets, semi-resistant to AP. Elite are highly resistant to normal, moderately resistant to AP, and Ancient Crushers should not ever show up in a normal round.

can laugh off the majority of explosives

Crushers are affected by mines like they are flashbangs, and similarly effected by HE rockets. However, they take full damage from WP, AP, and OB. The issue with not being able to see is that crushers cannot moonwalk the normal way while blinded and being unable to see means they can't properly face to block bullets.

can run super fast in a single direction (which can be useful for getting into or out of a fight), and has a stomp that acts like a smaller screech.

Charging out of a fight is a terrible idea, because it persistently exposes your completely unarmored backside to an enemy. Crushers at the end of the test completely lost their stomp ability, which crippled their ability to use both their charge and initiate. Charging was only safe to use because you could either stomp into trample, or use stomp to back out after charging in.

Without stomp providing aoe knockdown, charging isn't a viable attack (easy to dodge) nor is it useful for getting into a fight. It was never useful for getting out of one, which is why crushers die easily until they learn to moonwalk.

Sure, they don't do as much damage compared to other xenos, but they can still kill pretty damn good if they can close the gap in a tight hallway and stomp/tackle you down. Heck, I think most robust crushers have tackle active by default due to how easy it is to tackle as a crusher.

Literally any xeno can kill a marine if they manage to get close and tackle them down. Crusher has weak, inaccurate melee before elite and without stomp can be kited to a significant degree.

Pre-test Crushers with huggers are overpowered, period. The level of disruption and safety vs effort to counter and kill is absurd. Without huggers, they're nerfed significantly more than Ravs are, to the point the two castes are balanced. Hunters often didn't use huggers before anyway.

Crushers without their stomp are only slightly better than prae because they are good for blocking bullets for Boilers and minesweeping. They're worse than carriers, worse than ravs, worse than boilers. They're only better than Prae because Prae have no unique purpose and need a buff or a rework.

Crushers tend to tackle after stomp initiating because a robust crusher who manages to catch tightly packed marines can repeatedly tackle them while mature runners and up have better melee capabilities and can slash, ultimately being a more efficient attack.

I've slashed someone 14 times to remove a foot, and over 20 times to kill, as a crusher. Crushers can only slash twice during their stomp stun, to put that in perspective.

[Heckenshutze]

Nah, hug decap is back. Cancer never dies

[DeadLantern]

Nothing changed for me.

I only ever used huggers for when I got into crit, and anyone running up to me or close to me would get hugged, unless I was carrier.

However, I noticed that Aliens dominated the ground war, but the Sulaco war always failed.

[Blazerules]

Still seeing runners just spam huggers at you and drag you off. Which honestly? Ain't fun at all as a marine player. I really enjoyed the test week because the majority of the combat wasn't "Hugger thrown, hugger thrown, GG you are dragged off". Its not even fun having to fight off xenos who just fight via huggers.

I guess yeah. That helps them win fights very easily. But being on the receiving end there is little to no fun in that, and I'm not sure if that matters at all in a game. During test week you could go 1v1 with xenos using a knife et cetera. That was a ton of fun even if you died. Now? Impossible.

I know I might sound a bit salty, but I just don't like the effect hugger combat has on well... combat.

For all its flaws the test made combat a massive amount of fun. Hope it gets tweaked a bit and put back in.

[Renomaki]

Yeah, it'll take some time to get readjusted to hugger combat.

In a few weeks, I hear it'll be removed again though, so those xenos better practice if they want to survive without their huggers. I know I will when I happen to roll Xeno.

Still, it does baffle just how fast xenos returned to using a crutch like that the moment it was made available again.

[Swagile]

Yeah, it'll take some time to get readjusted to hugger combat.

In a few weeks, I hear it'll be removed again though, so those xenos better practice if they want to survive without their huggers. I know I will when I happen to roll Xeno.

Still, it does baffle just how fast xenos returned to using a crutch like that the moment it was made available again.

Its not very baffling when huggers in its current state are essentially a T3 ability without the actual need to be a T3.

It KOs for a full minute, can be done almost instantly if you are fast enough, and can be used by any caste at any time as long as the Queen is popping eggs (which only the newbiest of newbie xenos don't know how to do).

Why wouldn't you use such a powerful ability?

Thats like telling a marine NOT to use a SADAR if they were given the ability to use one with no repercussions and plentiful reloads.

I personally don't use huggers anymore unless queen disables slashing despite tallhosts attacking us (happened one round with SSD queen during river assault) or if I am a Carrier, since its much more fun that way but thats just me.

[Blazerules]

Don't forget the age old adage of if people can spam hadoukens they will spam hadoukens. If there is a easy way to achieve something with little to no effort then of course people will do it. Expecting otherwise just means you don't fully understand how people work. If marines had something similar you'd see them use that over everything else.

I'd imagine people went back to hugger spam the round the test was over. Sadly just like getting spammed with hadoukens non stop, it ain't fun.