Embrace the Suck

[Forst]

Instructions unclear, I've now been banned for ERP.

[TheDonkified]

Instructions unclear, I've now been banned for ERP.

hwat

[Bob]

Are you serious?

[SagaSword]

Getting roflstomped as a marine due to the new nerfs isn't fun gameplay either, whether someone wants to win or is content with losing.

Losing is only fun when you know you did all you could to prevent a loss, not because one side was easy moded by the Developers so that even a newbie could play it and kick ass unless they were absolutely bald.

Bald is the new way to go m8, just stick a fucking quickfire to your m41, stand next to a fellow marine for cover, and shoot the oblivion SHIT outta any xeno mofo which runs into your line of sight. #Bald4Host

[Code_Loaded]

So for Xenos, you embrace the Un-succ

[Dolth]

Too long. Didn't read.

[SagaSword]

My opinion: Mechanics sucks for marine, roleplay more, salt is inevitable, look at this goat gif to lower your salt dosage.

I have seen hell shaped in a goat form.

[Heckenshutze]

I feel the game currently is good balanced. Marine winning ratio now depends on how good they play and fight (in super hard mode) but not impossible to achieve.

Really, most marines are so bad it makes me cringe they win being THAT bad.

[Gabe]

I would prefer personally slightly less samey rounds. It does start to get dull as things repeat round in round out; I've no problem with marines being at a disadvantage, despite people taking my "50/50" meme too seriously. But variation is the spice of life, one way to make rounds play out differently would of course to be buffing marines but this would lead to a new meta-play samey as we sometimes get now, the only difference being marines would win. They would, however, win in the same way every time as xenos usually do.

Personally I dunno how to solve this, it's a minor issue because I still play way too much as things are and so the game clearly isn't ruined by it. Again, in my opinion, a crack down on xeno meta knowledge would be a better route than marine buffs. I wouldn't mind if you made the shotty a one hit kill on all lifeforms tho.

And this would be a long shot and extra work for coders, but maybe mid-round events? Like how a normal SS13 server has a chance of abductors spawning etc.

Also yes I agree playing to win will ruin your experience. Everyone likes winning, it's fun, but making it your sole purpose in a round leads to frustration. Frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering an admin ass kicking.


TLDR: Game's p good but more variation is always welcome.

[Symbiosis]

I would prefer personally slightly less samey rounds. It does start to get dull as things repeat round in round out; I've no problem with marines being at a disadvantage, despite people taking my "50/50" meme too seriously. But variation is the spice of life, one way to make rounds play out differently would of course to be buffing marines but this would lead to a new meta-play samey as we sometimes get now, the only difference being marines would win. They would, however, win in the same way every time as xenos usually do.

Personally I dunno how to solve this, it's a minor issue because I still play way too much as things are and so the game clearly isn't ruined by it. Again, in my opinion, a crack down on xeno meta knowledge would be a better route than marine buffs. I wouldn't mind if you made the shotty a one hit kill on all lifeforms tho.

And this would be a long shot and extra work for coders, but maybe mid-round events? Like how a normal SS13 server has a chance of abductors spawning etc.

Also yes I agree playing to win will ruin your experience. Everyone likes winning, it's fun, but making it your sole purpose in a round leads to frustration. Frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering an admin ass kicking.


TLDR: Game's p good but more variation is always welcome.

Throw some ideas out there for us, my man! Whenever I find myself as the Queen or CO I try not to recycle my approach, but fresh ideas would be helpful for everyone.

[Gabe]

Throw some ideas out there for us, my man! Whenever I find myself as the Queen or CO I try not to recycle my approach, but fresh ideas would be helpful for everyone.

Actually I do find when you play CO usuallyTM rounds are interesting, the whole maps thing you do with the drawn out plans does not go unappreciated.

I'm no CO, as you can tell by the fact I'm not whitelisted for it and don't intend to apply in the foreseeable future, but I would say that as a general thing don't get too controlling over what people do. This isn't specifically targeted at you, mind, this is just a broad statement. Allowing SOs or preferably SLs to have more autonomy provided they can handle it does lead for different scenarios, however the downside to this is it requires multiple good SLs with good inter-squad communication which is rare at best. Where possible take feedback/requests from ground forces and if you see fit act on them, though at the same time don't lose track of the fact you're the boss man. Confusing right?

As Queen, discourage use of lethal force where it is not needed, especially at the round's start. Don't make pursuing Survivors priority numero uno because this A. can ruin their round and B. mean people miss out on their arr pees. Obviously xenos will need to kill people, and aggressive survivors are understandably targets. But occasionally it'd be good for xenos to try and pitch in to making the round more fun for both sides.

Obviously the latter of these two will not happen; xenos play to win. If, as a queen, you attempted this your xenos would insult you, call you shit at the game, generally be toxic and mad that they have to restrain themselves from steam rolling with meta knowledge. But I can dream right? Some xeno players must be in favour of making rounds more fun for everyone involved.

Also you don't know what CAS lasers or OBs are so stop calling them out before you've seen them used, it's kinda a dick move imo.

[Licon]

I think the salt is when you are new.. Or played a while, in fact i think i played this for a year and a half now and it isnt recently i noticed that i have started to embrace the salt inside me

[LightBeast]

As a new player, I want to chime in on this. I've slogged through multiple rounds as marine and a couple as xenomorph, and I think that having the aliens more powerful isn't what makes it suck. It sucks playing marine because the aliens don't FEEL or play anything like the aliens from the movie after the beginning of the round. Half of them become giant dinosaur tanks and the amount of their special abilities is ridiculous and makes for very immersion-breaking gameplay.

As it is now, the game plays much more like Starship Troopers than Aliens, right down to almost all of us standing shoulder-to-shoulder behind a barricade waiting for charges. This is every single round. There is very little ambushing, very little tension, and almost every round turns into "stand at the FOB and dodge boiler clouds until a queen charges up and stuns everyone and we all die."

I know balancing is hard work, but I really think the Aliens need a rework to make them play differently so the game actually feels like Aliens instead of Starship Troopers.

[Feweh]

As a new player, I want to chime in on this. I've slogged through multiple rounds as marine and a couple as xenomorph, and I think that having the aliens more powerful isn't what makes it suck. It sucks playing marine because the aliens don't FEEL or play anything like the aliens from the movie after the beginning of the round. Half of them become giant dinosaur tanks and the amount of their special abilities is ridiculous and makes for very immersion-breaking gameplay.

As it is now, the game plays much more like Starship Troopers than Aliens, right down to almost all of us standing shoulder-to-shoulder behind a barricade waiting for charges. This is every single round. There is very little ambushing, very little tension, and almost every round turns into "stand at the FOB and dodge boiler clouds until a queen charges up and stuns everyone and we all die."

I know balancing is hard work, but I really think the Aliens need a rework to make them play differently so the game actually feels like Aliens instead of Starship Troopers.

Dude, the game has been like this for 3 years.

[LightBeast]

Dude, the game has been like this for 3 years.

Okay well maybe it shouldn't be? I wouldn't want big sudden changes that drove off players, but I think a rework of the aliens so they were closer to their movie equivalents would create more exciting gameplay and be more immersive for roleplaying.

Does anyone think the ridiculous boiler cloud is actually fun or balanced in any way? Especially with the movement mechanics, it feels cheap and gimmicky. It even goes through walls, I mean come on.

[Feweh]

Okay well maybe it shouldn't be? I wouldn't want big sudden changes that drove off players, but I think a rework of the aliens so they were closer to their movie equivalents would create more exciting gameplay and be more immersive for roleplaying.

Does anyone think the ridiculous boiler cloud is actually fun or balanced in any way? Especially with the movement mechanics, it feels cheap and gimmicky. It even goes through walls, I mean come on.

Dude, once again.
The game has been like this for 3 years.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

[Rustarus]

Now THIS guy gets it! I actually LOVE To lose more than win, unless I died because of another marines incompetence... such as the PO leaving when we were being attacked, or a medic not knowing how to medic and just making me sit there while he stares at me. But other than that, if I die via xeno and without marines just standing there watching, not doing anything, I am fine with it.

[LightBeast]

Dude, once again.
The game has been like this for 3 years.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

I'm not barking up any tree. I'm simply offering my opinion on why its not fun to embrace the suck when 'the suck' comes from game mechanics I feel are cheap and don't feel similar to the movies in any way. It's a relevant opinion on a discussion forum meant for discussion.

The fact that marines are the underdogs is fine, and dying is fine. It can actually be one of the more interesting and fun parts of the game thanks to the elaborate medical situations you can find yourself in. The problem for me is that the way you die is often cheap and gimmicky and doesn't feel like anything from the movies, which is the entire point of the game and all of it's attention to detail and roleplaying, isn't it?

[Feweh]

I'm not barking up any tree. I'm simply offering my opinion on why its not fun to embrace the suck when 'the suck' comes from game mechanics I feel are cheap and don't feel similar to the movies in any way. It's a relevant opinion on a discussion forum meant for discussion.

The fact that marines are the underdogs is fine, and dying is fine. It can actually be one of the more interesting and fun parts of the game thanks to the elaborate medical situations you can find yourself in. The problem for me is that the way you die is often cheap and gimmicky and doesn't feel like anything from the movies, which is the entire point of the game and all of it's attention to detail and roleplaying, isn't it?

By all means, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it's my opinion that your opinion is stupid.
What you're suggesting is to change 3 years of development, work and game-mechanics. (that the playerbase likes and is use to)

It's not feasible.

[LightBeast]

By all means, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it's my opinion that your opinion is stupid.
What you're suggesting is to change 3 years of development, work and game-mechanics. (that the playerbase likes and is use to)

It's not feasible.

I haven't even suggested any specific changes, just put out a general opinion of the Aliens design and gameplay. Also I was unaware that since the game is 3 years old, any opinion criticizing it is therefore stupid because the playerbase likes everything. If that's the case, why even have a "discussion" at all if you're going to be that sensitive about it?

I'll post my suggestions in the suggestions sub-forum, so feel free to respond there with an actual argument to further the discussion which you're not doing here.

[Hulkamania]

I haven't even suggested any specific changes, just put out a general opinion of the Aliens design and gameplay. Also I was unaware that since the game is 3 years old, any opinion criticizing it is therefore stupid because the playerbase likes everything. If that's the case, why even have a "discussion" at all if you're going to be that sensitive about it?

I'll post my suggestions in the suggestions sub-forum, so feel free to respond there with an actual argument to further the discussion which you're not doing here.

I think more what he is getting at is what this very thread is advertising: You should just embrace the fact that you're going to get shit on. Part of the fun is trying to hold off against this enemy that is better than you, faster than you and stronger than you. Sometimes you win against that enemy! Be it because you got lucky, hard work, good teamwork or alien incompetence. Sometimes the small victory is killing a single xeno (or even just helping kill one) sometimes you kill several and save the day.

The idea is that you should be enjoying the game for the experience of fighting with your friends, interacting with them in a dire situation, and knowing that the actual stakes are low. You're going to die, so you might as well enjoy it, you'll just be back next round anyway.

Also the suggestions forum is locked at the moment.

[Trench007]

I wish mechanically that the Xenos would be squishier, greater in number, and have less abilities. However to compensate, give Xenos a much higher damage output, and increase their speed caste-wide. This would create gameplay favoring ambush tactics by the Xenos, as they would be very fragile, yet strong. I could go into more depth to what changes would also be needed to balance the marines, but this is only an idea never likely to be enacted.

That's just my thoughts regarding how I would like gameplay, regardless of practicality and limitations of the SS13 engine.

[LightBeast]

I think more what he is getting at is what this very thread is advertising: You should just embrace the fact that you're going to get shit on. Part of the fun is trying to hold off against this enemy that is better than you, faster than you and stronger than you. Sometimes you win against that enemy! Be it because you got lucky, hard work, good teamwork or alien incompetence. Sometimes the small victory is killing a single xeno (or even just helping kill one) sometimes you kill several and save the day.

The idea is that you should be enjoying the game for the experience of fighting with your friends, interacting with them in a dire situation, and knowing that the actual stakes are low. You're going to die, so you might as well enjoy it, you'll just be back next round anyway.

Also the suggestions forum is locked at the moment.

Yeah I know that, I was just saying that you could get this same experience and have the same amount of fun with the game feeling a bit more like Aliens than it does now. Isn't that what the devs want in the end, anyway?

I don't want to sound like the mouthy noob that shows up and starts vomiting opinions everywhere, and I really appreciate the hard work that obviously goes into this very fun game (reading the changelog and wow) it's just my opinion as a lifelong Alien fan who's always wanted a game like this and sees the potential for the perfect Aliens game experience that so many of us have always wanted. I've been on the server playing religiously and will continue to do so because it's a great game, but the guy just seemed irritated that I even suggest changing anything - probably due to how much work has gone into it. I understand.

That's a bummer that the suggestion forum is locked.

[Casany]

Yeah I know that, I was just saying that you could get this same experience and have the same amount of fun with the game feeling a bit more like Aliens than it does now. Isn't that what the devs want in the end, anyway?

I don't want to sound like the mouthy noob that shows up and starts vomiting opinions everywhere, and I really appreciate the hard work that obviously goes into this very fun game (reading the changelog and wow) it's just my opinion as a lifelong Alien fan who's always wanted a game like this and sees the potential for the perfect Aliens game experience that so many of us have always wanted. I've been on the server playing religiously and will continue to do so because it's a great game, but the guy just seemed irritated that I even suggest changing anything - probably due to how much work has gone into it. I understand.

That's a bummer that the suggestion forum is locked.

There are two schools of thoughts to how the Aliens should be
1. Strong, almost unkillible but very small in numbers. This is more of an Alien based opinion, more like the first movie
2. Weak but numerous. More like Aliens, less abilities but they have a huge swarm.
The problem is that no one really wants to play alien. For real, the most players EVER on the aliens side was 53. The average for a high pop round is 25-30. What you're shooting for is impossible unless people just suddenly started playing aliens.
Now, I get it, opinions and all. But it's unfeasible. I would much rather face hordes and hordes of aliens than fight overpowered but small in number ayys.
People play marine because they have a name, basically. They have thoughts, they can actually get known in the game. As an alien you're just one of the faceless masses, and for many that's a turn off

Just my input

[Feweh]

We cant have endless streams of xenos, because the fact is 75% of the players don't want to play Xenos. This is despite the xenos being somewhat interesting now with abilities and a progression system.
By making them mindless hordes, people will be even less likely to play as aliens.

Hence why xenos over-time have been buffed up to match being able to initially fight 120 vs 20