[Tribes] General views on HG Tribal Edition

[Feweh]

You realize I have to manually delete these items and it was just oversight until someone reports them. Generally fall under "next round ill fix it".

Your tribe specifically were hardcore power-gaming, in the span of no less than 2 minutes you guys killed 9 players INSTANTLY. This is compared to Solaris kingdom killing only 2 players with the flash that I witnessed.


Point being ill try to remove them next time, but often I dont know something is really abusive till it happens. What pisses me off is that using chems to insta kill is pretty fucking blatantly powergaming. Since logically the chems are made to heal and help and only cause harm when PURPOSELY used to OD.

[Sailor Dave]

Aside from the injector incident, that round was excellent. It was very stressful as Queen getting people to properly follow my orders while managing everything, but the consequences of that were really interesting. The Dark Lord wouldn't have even existed if not for his poor treatment by the guards, and he probably would have died permanently much sooner if the prophet hadn't been unknowingly killed by a Solaris patrol, which would have completely prevented the hellish onslaught on Solaris at the end. Thinking about it, everything that happened was technically our fault, even if it wasn't my intention.

I'm a little disappointed that there were whole tribes that I didn't even know about and didn't get to interact with, but that was my own fault for being a bit of a shut-in, since I wanted to manage and interact with the people of the kingdom without running off and getting myself killed somehow. I did delegate a bit, giving some of the more important positions to trustworthy people, including the VERY helpful Captain Ryan and Viceroy Renomaki, who I probably couldn't have accomplished much of anything without, as well as Steward Bruce Haynes(?) managing the kingdom's affairs. I would have sent out more patrols to bring back intel, but T-Comms mysteriously broke permanently, and I didn't think to distribute the handheld radios until it was effectively too late.

We had so many things to deal with between virology's virus issue, the church, the Dark Lord taking over the church, the bar/kitchen tribe threatening to attack, T-Comms going down.. Probably a bunch of other stuff I didn't even know about. Several defections to the Dark Lord from people I thought I trusted and had given important positions - under all the juggling issues I already had, I didn't even know they'd defected until we had finally stormed the church to purge them. It actually made me sad, seeing their heads lined up on the tables afterwards.

[MrJJJ]

abused flash stuns and predator weapons and/or ganging up on vampires to kill them.

Wait wait, i can see how the latter be somewhat powergamey (due to the fact there is no almost no sunglasses anywhere) but how the hell using predator weapons and then ganging up on a opponent is powergaming?

Thats litteraly like, fucking basic strategy, if a opponent is a powerfull vampire, you fucking gang up on him, and if you got really good weapons, use them.

-Snip-

Jezz, no wonder nobody could ever kill you (expect for that incident) or come close to you

(Also that momment when you go back to the church but all of your friends are dead and Solaris is still looting the place and you are too hungry for a final stand.)

[Swagile]

You realize I have to manually delete these items and it was just oversight until someone reports them. Generally fall under "next round ill fix it".

Your tribe specifically were hardcore power-gaming, in the span of no less than 2 minutes you guys killed 9 players INSTANTLY. This is compared to Solaris kingdom killing only 2 players with the flash that I witnessed.


Point being ill try to remove them next time, but often I dont know something is really abusive till it happens. What pisses me off is that using chems to insta kill is pretty fucking blatantly powergaming. Since logically the chems are made to heal and help and only cause harm when PURPOSELY used to OD.

I reported hyposprays being abuseable in a ahelp during the 2 major tribe round when you deleted a SecTec that Lambda tribe hacked to get abundant flashes, but I think my ahelp was skipped over.

Also, to the predator weapon + ganging up thing, I meant if you use a flash then gang up on people with predator weapons, its just as powerful as QC OD in killing people. But ganging up on people is a fine tactic, its how tribes works; I was just frustrated in the double standard of "QC OD is not ok as it can kill people fast, but flashes + pred weapon / spear spam is ok".

[Feweh]

I reported hyposprays being abuseable in a ahelp during the 2 major tribe round when you deleted a SecTec that Lambda tribe hacked to get abundant flashes, but I think my ahelp was skipped over.

Also, to the predator weapon + ganging up thing, I meant if you use a flash then gang up on people with predator weapons, its just as powerful as QC OD in killing people. But ganging up on people is a fine tactic, its how tribes works; I was just frustrated in the double standard of "QC OD is not ok as it can kill people fast, but flashes + pred weapon / spear spam is ok".

I dont see how ganging up on people is at all a feasible thing for enforce by rules and more so follows under common sense strategies.
I also did delete the hyposprays at round start, im not sure what spawns them... I'm guessing the Medical venders?

[Challenger]

WeylandMeds have hyposprays. But you'll also want to delete pretty much all autoinjectors since you can just syringe out the contents of a QC autoinjector and then place them into say, an inaprovaline autoinjector which injects 15 units at a time. Also hacked MarineMeds have anaesthetic autoinjectors.

In general because of the whole restocking mechanic, if there's a single unit of a chemical in a vendor, then there's effectively infinite units of it.

[Feweh]

WeylandMeds have hyposprays. But you'll also want to delete pretty much all autoinjectors since you can just syringe out the contents of a QC autoinjector and then place them into say, an inaprovaline autoinjector which injects 15 units at a time. Also hacked MarineMeds have anaesthetic autoinjectors.

In general because of the whole restocking mechanic, if there's a single unit of a chemical in a vendor, then there's effectively infinite units of it.

So essentially impossible to deal with on a mechanical level and more of a rule thing.
Kind of like the covert ops rules, impossible to enforce mechanically but stops 90% of the people from doing it.

Still get the occasional shitler doing it, but still.

[Challenger]

More or less. Just to repeat myself, I hate one hit stuns, they're the worst part of SS13 especially given how detailed damage is in SS13. We have everything from being stabbed in the eyes causing blindness to burn pain slowdown to delimbing to breaking bones to internal bleeding to vomiting to shrapnel to organ damage, etc, and a variety of different armor types, yet 99% of combat across SS13 servers is determined by who clicks on the other with their paralytic agent first. Honestly on other servers nearly EVERYTHING is decided by a single, literally fatal, mistake, rather than the long drawn out gun and swordfights we wish they would be.

In general, players on Colonial Marines are so used to using guns to solve all their problems against non-humans that they've completely forgotten that guns are actually dogshit against other humans. In fact, non-stunning ballistic weaponry on other servers is nearly completely useless outside of a few situations where enemies are immune to stuns (but they're still cheesed with sleeps ie chloral autos).

I really hope you're successful at creating a new rule to prevent this kind of powergaming, especially because it's going to be hard to throw out a clear dividing line between cheese stun shit and non cheese stun shit. I'll throw out some more examples of traditional ss13 robustitude that could be viable in Tribes depending on how up-to-date the baycode CM runs on is:

- Dropped banana peel/soap/spraying water/lube onto the floor. Stuns for at least enough time to cuff, easily hidable.
- Splashing beakers of acid onto other people for paincrit.
- Harm intent syringes.
- Flash powder. Luckily CM doesn't have electrolysis or I'd have been able to create copious amounts of this last round, if one click stuns are bullshit try one click stunning everyone but yourself in view range.
- Chloral/polyacid grenades.
- Shocking doors and grilles. Especially more effective if wired directly to the grid and SMES maxed.
- Crushing doors. Cut the safeties, run up to the dude when he inevitably gets crushed. OR attach a remote signaller to the open/close wire and just keep toggling it to crush them to death without a chance to resist.
- Phoron bullshit. You may or may not be able to inject phoron into lightbulbs to make them explode when turned on. Also if it's possible, just straight up causing a phoron fire by building a phoron door then using a lit welder on it. Or splashing liquid phoron somewhere and lighting it if possible.
- Throwing stun prods that are on.
- Rigging fuel tanks (prox or signaller) then hiding them behind shit.

I can't think of more at the moment but it definitely exists. I hope you can find a good rule to add that makes most of this type of cheese bannable while still allowing for creativity and ingenuity.

[Nubs]

Looks like the chem machine needs to be deleted at round start too!

As dave said, it was a very good round with plenty of rp, even if we did bring the END TIMES upon ourselves when some rouge solaris troops decided to arbitrarily kill the holy prophet for reasons?? Allowing the dark lord to come to power and sparking an epic feud. Shows how much can be achieved when you have a good king/queen. The chloral thing was bad, and i don't even think it was the vampires that did it (them killing a few people with poison would make sense ic) Killing half a tribe including the leader with a hypospray was just silly.

[Tysonix]

It would be interesting to see RP involving the trial and execution of those rogue Solaris soldiers. Wasn't part of most of the patrol team, was simply a Gate Guardian or Reno's peace envoy guard but capturing traitors, inviting all of Solaris to bear witness in the Capital's courtyard for a trial and possible execution would be a 10/10 moment.

[Swagile]

Also to make tribes better and enforce major tribe trading / desperation, you need to remove the Hot Foods vendor.

You can restock all food types as long as you don't eat it fully (aka "finish" it), like EAT bars that you finish in two bites. But if you only bite it once and restock it into the Hot Food vendor, you essentially have unlimited food, which negates the reason for anyone to trade as one of the major reasons to trade is food.

[TheDonkified]

Also to make tribes better and enforce major tribe trading / desperation, you need to remove the Hot Foods vendor.

You can restock all food types as long as you don't eat it fully (aka "finish" it), like EAT bars that you finish in two bites. But if you only bite it once and restock it into the Hot Food vendor, you essentially have unlimited food, which negates the reason for anyone to trade as one of the major reasons to trade is food.

This please. I feel that botany should be the ONLY source of food, unless you have random boxes scattered around the map for non-major tribes to use as for food when they cannot trade anything with the major tribe. We had a chef last tribes round and a good botany team, but while we made a ton of food, I personally did not see a lot of it eaten.

Also, our chef could not make dough at all, so we were a little limited on the foods we could make.

[Challenger]

Same reusable medicine concept applies to power too, if you have a Robco with you, just restock you spent power cells and they'll come out fully recharged. Also, I think on friday's tribes round Feweh DID destroy all the food vendors, but that didn't matter to me because there's nutriment in the hot chocolate from the drink vendors anyway.

[Boredone]

Ah, one thing I feel I should mention. T-Comms went out, making it alot harder for Solaris kingdom to organize I believe. I get the feeling this was because power probably went out in the Alamayer, so if the ship is not going to be involved, should probably mess with the Alamayer T-Comms APC so it doesn't run out of power next time.