T3 Explosion Resistant Discussion

[Boltersam]

Actually the Devs take a lot of tests and research before making updates, usually. They're careful about their work, and while they do take heed of community opinion, the community can't force anything to happen. I'm of the mind that the Devs are intent on shifting gameplay. Making it less stun reliant to get kills and giving the Marines more big guns. This change, I believe, has been set in motion by the Smartgunner update. This brings on a more skill based and cooperative team game for the Marines, and may even reduce the stuns used by Xenos.

Patience is a virtue, and a good one at that. Change on such a huge scale will move slowly, of course, and we, as a community, will adapt to them. And I'll make a small note: stop saying staff don't care, they're just dead set on reducing fun, etc. They play here the same as you. They take time out of their lives to manage people on a 2d spaceman game where twenty year olds act like mentally damaged children on an all too common basis. Believe me when I say that the staff team cares more about you and your enjoyment more than any other player will.

My advice is to watch and wait until the update is complete. But what do I know? I'm obviously xeno biased and can't be trusted with an opinion.

[NoahKirchner]

I will probably get permabanned for this.

In a matter of a few weeks, you have-

Added a cool new turret.
Nerfed racks, the primary way to control smaller xenos from destroying your upper defenses.
Made walls take two less steps than reinforced walls to deconstruct.
Made pheremones able to stop crit and bleeding out.
Not allowed for fast reaction times against xenos that pop out by adding a delay between wielding and shooting.
Made specialists have absolutely no variety, turning it from a tactical decision into a random chance of weapon.
Made those weapons, most of which were explosive weapons to effectively counter T3s, no longer able to fufill their one purpose.
Made no type of barricade besides metal walls (which cost a load of resources) able to stop a crusher charge, including plasteel which is the most expensive resource in the game.
Added sandbags, which are limited and unable to be ordered.
Removed bonking, and other features that punished a player's mistake.
Increased xeno speed.
Made mines almost useless besides against T1s.
And completely defeated the purpose of AT in a SADAR.

I can't think of anything else.

You haven't adjusted features for metas, you've just demolished metas and made the game one of two scenarios.

A. Marines rush xenos early round, deplete their numbers, ignore any sort of colonial story and win an hour and a half in (which is terrible)
B. Marines take the time to set up on the colony, try to build an FOB, get steamrolled by the xenos and pushed up back to the almayer, where an escape shuttle is called as soon as they crash and everyone evacs.


I've expressed, in the past, that I like stories with a conclusive end far more than winning mid round, but.. Jesus christ, both of these options sound terrible! No more long hold-outs at FOBs while you get slowly pushed back to the dropship, all of your friends dead. It's a xeno push into the FOB, defenses crumble, everyone runs.

Sure, you may be /going/ to add features, but you can't even argue that you're testing specific updates when you change so many variables at a time. There's no way to get conclusive data about a single change by removing explosion stuns, buffing pheremones and changing marine wield times all in one update.

No disrespect to the dev team, they've done a lot of hard work on the almayer recently and I certainly harbor no sort of personal grudge against them; I understand that at the end of the day they're doing what they can to make the game great, and I respect that. But updates like this without any forethought into balance, where you can't even use testing as an excuse just makes everybody frustrated, and it doesn't help when criticism is just dissuaded as salt, or the excuse that "We know what we're doing" comes in from the dev team. Like, christ, man.





Edit: Fixed an incorrect thingy, and a date.

[Casany]

No disrespect to the dev team, they've done a lot of hard work on the almayer recently and I certainly harbor no sort of personal grudge against them; I understand that at the end of the day they're doing what they can to make the game great, and I respect that. But updates like this without any forethought into balance, where you can't even use testing as an excuse just makes everybody frustrated, and it doesn't help when criticism is just dissuaded as salt, or the excuse that "We know what we're doing" comes in from the dev team. Like, christ, man.

I totally agree here. Yeah, they may have a master plan but as of now the games just unplayable as a marine unless you metarush. Even then its hard to win

See, I get that they are probably planning on adding new marine buffs, but I would have much rather had them all added in the same update rather then buff xenos for 5 days and then "fix it". Yeah, they do do hard work, but everyone makes mistakes. I personally view this update as a mistake. If they were gonna buff marines then they shoulda at the same time they buffed the aliens. Otherwise it just ruins fun.

I've said this before, many times: I'm not for winning, I could care less which side wins. I do care about balance, and I do care about fun. I like to have a good dynamic story, not something like this. At this point the SADAR is basically useless, same with all HE grenades. Theres literally no counter to T3s anymore. Ravagers don't have to ever worry about dying unless they're surrounded at all sides, and crushers don't have to worry about dying almost at all. Queens are now unstoppable, and even boilers can fight on the front lines without much worry now.

All this update does is make marine play even harder. I realize y'all want more people to play alien, and you want the winrate somewhere about 30/70 or 40/60, but this isn't the way to go about it.

[Nyeshivuu]

They will start caring when people stop playing.

good riddance

[NoahKirchner]

good riddance

That is a pretty terrible attitude to have with anything, 2d spessmen game or not.

[Nyeshivuu]

That is a pretty terrible attitude to have with anything, 2d spessmen game or not.

I meant for people who want to win. Even though i am so goddamn tired of xeno bullshit Playing To Win Is The Worst Way To Play™

[NoahKirchner]

I meant for people who want to win. Even though i am so goddamn tired of xeno bullshit Playing To Win Is The Worst Way To Play™

Alright, I misunderstood.

Playing to win is what drives the conflict though, sure you want to make an enjoyable story, but without fighting back your damnedest (to an extent, staying within meta rules), it'd be a wipe by the side that RPs less every round.

[Renomaki]

Well, if you feel that the update is half-baked, maybe it would be a good idea to let it cook for awhile?

You know.. I been thinkin of taking a break for a week to let it settle first and save myself the frustration of this update. No doubt in a week they'll surely patch it up and it'll be enjoyable to play again, plus it is always good to take breaks from all the salt.

That is the thing about this game: It is always changing, and oftentimes sooner than you think. If you really disagree with what they done, simply take a breather for a little bit and then come back later when you are refreshed. Either one of two things will happen then:

1: they balance it better to ensure fun on both sides and the game feels fair again.

OR

2: they don't really fix what displeases you, but by the time you got back, the players that stuck around and suffered it will have adjusted and formed new tactics. All you'd have to do is learn the new tricks of the trade and you'll be kicking ass again like old times.

[TheDonkified]

I meant for people who want to win. Even though i am so goddamn tired of xeno bullshit Playing To Win Is The Worst Way To Play™

Pretty sure this isn't a play to win type of thing. This is a play to have FUN. Is it fun to be steamrolled every round by xenos just because? Is it fun to be in the squad designated to go down DS2 in Ice Colony or scouting in Big Red / LV and be curb stomped by xenos when you make first contact instead of actually playing the whole round?

Playing only to win may not necessarily be a good thing, but neither is playing a combat role for the combat, and then realizing that combat is really just dying to xenos,

[Nyeshivuu]

Actually yeah fuck this update, fuck xenos and their free passes, their tackling, their stuns, fucking runner castes, their meta, stun slash slash slash tactic, their fucking powergaming, crushers, pheremones, hugger stacking, spitters, neurotoxin, the meme scream team, weeds, BULLSHIT BULLET DANCE and rubberbanding.

[Nyeshivuu]

Being tacklespammed then critted so you can't get out is not a good rp experience. Apop said himself that marines should feel like it is a slow retreat not being steamrolled. Fobs are absolutely useless because runners can pass through all but metal barricades, even then there are crushers.

[Daman453]

>main marine >New update >yess.jpg >Added Evolving pheromones. As the name implies, they increase evolution growth. >fuck >Play as bravo SL >Oh look a massi- oh wait did i just get decapped >5 T3, 1 elite queen 5 T2 upgraded 10 T2 Non-Upgraded 15 T1 >Watch the steam roll >Become alien >Evolve to elite in 10 minutes >steamroll ship >mfw it takes one hour for the marines to die and aliens to win

Fuck this, i love CM to death and this is how you balance. Everything is xeno hug box. You need to balance things out. I love holding the FOB and watching as my friends get dragged off and then killed and hearing screams and bullets raining out from a good FOB and then the aliens break though and you run to drop ship and then oh shit they got on and then you hope the PO calls it and then it does go and your so pumped and then you wait for xenos to crash into ship and then have fun with defense.

Now this is how round goes. Rush out to hive, not rushing fast, you die, they get on drop ship and slash everyone up. The round ends. It's not about winning, it's about epic power struggles.

[MrJJJ]

What the fuck did i walk into?

Alright, let's get this down about what i dislike/don't understand about this update

1
https://i.gyazo.com/a30f36e9150228d4f46 ... c6e59b.png

...Why?!
Why is this necessary? why can't i instantly pull out my gun and shoot the alien? I am a trained marine who is ready to kick ass and has been trained to be quick and effective, how is it so hard to quickly pull out your gun and then start firing? why was this even a problem in the first place? this is just...i was fine with faster evolution xenos, i am fine with stronger pheromones, but this is...just i don't get it, sure it sucks to die to a guy who reacted very fast to your presence, but you really should have picked a better way to ambush and learn from mistakes.

2
https://i.gyazo.com/bed0ae5de774c548eec ... 7fa35d.png

The main topic, and i must say, mkay.
This is odd to feel about, on one hand, i love it that a ravager isn't a bag anymore when it comes to explosives, on the other...how do you kill a ravager now? or the queen?
I been playing a lot as a smart gunner lately, running BF and BFA combo, and the only way i killed a rav is by punishing his mistake, like when he decides to charge me and misses or etc, but i never really killed one when he didn't make a mistake, because he would get away very quick, and almost never alone, this same now goes for queen, i only killed a queen that made mistakes, like when a Elite Empress didn't attack me for some reason despite me being trapped behind flames and she was 3 tiles away from me, so i just shot her to death, or when a Elite Queen forgot her screech was still on cooldown.
Also this makes SADAR super pointless on T3's, a HE will never one-hit them and it will create smoke to get away safely under, WP is already preety bah, and AT now is in a very odd position of awkward, since if it doesn't crit that xeno, you will essentially waste the shot, since it will easily get away.
See what i kinda mean? It sucks to die as a elite ravager or mature to a random mine, but the only way marines are murdering you is if you make a mistake, any experienced xeno makes very few mistakes and most of them have a short time-frame, so its really hard to take advantage of to put down their reign of terror on the field.

I am still gonna go and play as a smart gunner and see how much this update has changed, i will come back when i get some results and either edit the post or make a new one.

[NoahKirchner]

OOC: Dylanstrategie: The update is not gonna be reverted
OOC: Dylanstrategie: That's not how we work around here


A complete lack of even the barest of consideration about the incredible concerns from all players, regardless of ranking or position in the community as a whole, has really disappointed me in all honesty.

[TheDonkified]

You can't even rush fast, because you'll be stomped by all the T3s and mature+ T2s that xenos have, or be punished because of "meta rush." Over time, there might be a way to not get instantly curb stomped as a marine, but at the moment, it seems every round is just going to be waiting until you eventually get steamrolled or trying to prevent getting steamrolled by being aggressive, and then getting steamrolled any way.

[MrJJJ]

OOC: Dylanstrategie: The update is not gonna be reverted
OOC: Dylanstrategie: That's not how we work around here


A complete lack of even the barest of consideration about the incredible concerns from all players, regardless of ranking or position in the community as a whole, has really disappointed me in all honesty.

To be fair i really don't trust dylan with anything or even consider him as someone who knows what's happening with the game when he said this
https://i.gyazo.com/e55fc80ca69ceca4e2e ... 0fe676.png

>gamemode is litteraly based around people joining xenos after death

[NoahKirchner]

To be fair i really don't trust dylan with anything or even consider him as someone who knows what's happening with the game when he said this
https://i.gyazo.com/e55fc80ca69ceca4e2e ... 0fe676.png

>gamemode is litteraly based around people joining xenos after death

He made the update and he's speaking on behalf of the CM dev team when he says that, and is also the target of other discussion, why would he not be trusted?

Dylan's not a bad guy by any stretch, just for the record.

[MrJJJ]

He made the update and he's speaking on behalf of the CM dev team when he says that, and is also the target of other discussion, why would he not be trusted?

Dylan's not a bad guy by any stretch, just for the record.

Oh i am not saying he is a bad guy, i just don't trust him when he balances or says anything, because it feels like he is disconnected from the game balance

Sorry if it came off as offensive

[NoahKirchner]

Oh i am not saying he is a bad guy, i just don't trust him when he balances or says anything, because it feels like he is disconnected from the game balance

Sorry if it came off as offensive

No not at all, I was saying that because I felt as if I was being a bit hard on him, you're fine my dude.

[completelynewguy]

While I don't have much an opinion around the other changes, I do feel that Evolution Pheromones are a terrible idea. It appears that it promotes turtling on top of hivemind being full of "MOM PHEROMONES PLEASE".

[Fritigern]

Seems like every time I come back to check these forums the communication between players and staff gets worse. We're about two steps away from "Fuck you I do what I want lolol" in response to every issue.

[NoahKirchner]

Seems like every time I come back to check these forums the communication between players and staff gets worse. We're about two steps away from "Fuck you I do what I want lolol" in response to every issue.

[Feweh]

Seems like every time I come back to check these forums the communication between players and staff gets worse. We're about two steps away from "Fuck you I do what I want lolol" in response to every issue.

You aren't wrong, this isn't a democracy.

Anyways, this is being locked. Since theres far less constructive criticism and purely complaining.
We're balancing stuff as usual, testing things for a few rounds, just relax.