Remove the Ruling on FOBs

[outordinary]

Was on the alien side of this round, there was about 5 of us including the queen with the sulaco FOBed out. I had to do some risky shit as a drone to even grab one marine which would end up getting dragged back as a hail of gunfire came. We couldn't move at all until eventually about 25-30 marines came out. Shit is wrong.

[Mr.Smooooth]

Did you just seriously left these for a 30-31 year old adult who had lots of coding experiences, was in military and a educator?

Yes. Yes I did.

Quite frankly, I believe there is a lesson the server staff can take away from these videos, especially seeing as they do not appear to have knowledge of the contents, or if they do know and fully understand these concepts they do not appear to be putting them into practice. This is not meant to be some sort of insult, no matter how good you are at something you can always get better, and coding experience does not equal game design experience.

On a more general and slightly off topic note, Extra Credits has an astounding number of videos, which are informative, thought provoking, and in general are entertaining to watch. I highly recommend anyone here check them out, developer or not.

---

Was on the alien side of this round, there was about 5 of us including the queen with the sulaco FOBed out. I had to do some risky shit as a drone to even grab one marine which would end up getting dragged back as a hail of gunfire came. We couldn't move at all until eventually about 25-30 marines came out. Shit is wrong.

And you didn't think to just melt a hole in a back wall? or tech to Praetorian and have the queen screech while he charges? What the heck is a drone even doing attacking anyway?

[AncientV25]

Was on the alien side of this round, there was about 5 of us including the queen with the sulaco FOBed out. I had to do some risky shit as a drone to even grab one marine which would end up getting dragged back as a hail of gunfire came. We couldn't move at all until eventually about 25-30 marines came out. Shit is wrong.

....Drones are not meant to be in combat.

It may be 'wrong', but marines have no other real option for direct combat. The way they're balanced, they are better off as a turtle than they are directly assaulting a location.

[MrGabol100]

Marines need at least ONE big ass FOB, because, let's face it...
LATE GAME NOSTROMO [video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN5YDtkmxsk[/video]

[apophis775]

Well at least yer fuckin' honest. You wonder why people get so disgruntled with the restrictions placed on us.

I'm going to leave these here, might help you learn better game design/balancing practices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

There is always more to learn!

(i don't know what's in the videos but learning is a journey and not a destination please dont shoot me)

He posted links to videos I've posted in the past on the forum, about game design.

I'm not sure if he's trying to be ironic or what...

But yea, I have a degree in game design.


EDIT:

Haven't read his post after, I can only assume he just googled and posted them, and doesn't actually KNOW about game design, because:

1. I once created a MASSIVE TOPIC about perfect imbalance, and use the actual (more detailed, not 5 minute version) of Perfect Imbalance theory to balance out the game as a whole, going so far, as to spending HOURS testing, doing the proper balance math, and adjusting. To the point that, I don't think anyone would disagree that the game is near perfectly balanced (with the exception, of the new stuff we started adding yesterday).

2. He never actually watched the video on Counter-play, because one of the core concepts, is that something should be fun, not just for the players doing it, but for the players it's being used on. And NO aliens, EVER had fun when the marines were building several FOBs across the station. To the point that, it was alien complaints that partly led to the decision. Case in point, I believe they make an example about a sniper you should pay attention to, as it nearly parallels the multi-FOB issue.


So yes, I am GREATLY familiar with Extra Credits, because I use them as teaching aids.

The thing I think Smooth doesn't understand, is in reality, how difficult proper balance actually is, or how much work, I really put in to trying to keep everything fair and balanced.

Yes, people bitched about this at first, but rounds have improved DRASTICALLY since I added this rule, and instead of marines sitting in FOBs jacking off, they are actually going out and engaging, which has resulted (in rounds I've seen) in a 30% increase in Marine victory, a 20% drop in round duration, and generally, a much better overall experience.

So yes smooth, I am familiar with those videos, and already incorporate them into what I do, so try not to patronize me by posting videos I've already posted on the forums.

[apophis775]

....Drones are not meant to be in combat.

It may be 'wrong', but marines have no other real option for direct combat. The way they're balanced, they are better off as a turtle than they are directly assaulting a location.

You are 100% wrong. What about The Grenades, breaching charges, flamethrowers?

Have you even been on the server this week?

[apophis775]

This has been up, for nearly a week, and I have yet to see, any reason other than a few select player complaints, for it to be rescinded.

As such, I'll give until midnight tonight (making it a full week), and then make my final decision.

However, spoilers: I'm leaning towards keeping the FOB rule, with some minor adjustments to clarify it.

You guys haven't convinced me, partly because, most of this thread has just been the same few people complaining, and offering no solutions or real "valid" input. At least, in my view.

I am 100% willing to change the rule, if you can give me a decent reason that isn't just "bitching" in the next 12 hours.

[CisRox]

I think that building more than one FOB is counter-intuitive, because, if one of your bases is being attacked, and you send troops from the other to back them up, wouldn't the one sending troops be at risk for attack? Also, wouldn't it make sense to have your forces together, instead of spread apart?

[AncientV25]

You are 100% wrong. What about The Grenades, breaching charges, flamethrowers?

Have you even been on the server this week?

"Have you even been on the server this week?"
Apophis, you literally saw me on last night.
Grenades? I've seen them in use. They failed to down a -single- warrior in our raid on a xenobio nest, where quite a few marines were captured and/or killed.
Breaching charges? Those are useful..in the right hands.
Flamethrowers? The fire damage doesn't seem to be buffed up

Those items you listed are a -step- on the path to a proper balance.
As it stands, marines are still woefully underpowered in comparison(as it should be..if they could defend themselves properly.) and marine victories are still as rare as ever.
If you want to see what I mean, play a few rounds as a marine yourself, rather than sit back and say 'Yep, this is balanced, these items are definitely working.'

[HighwaterOffical]

Validly, and not being a bitch kind of way, in the past where aliens had to breach huge FOBs, it was stated, by a player on this fourm post, that they enjoy finding weaknesses in huge mega super FOBs, and exploiting them, which means some aliens, not just him, see super FOBs as a fun challenge.

Now, i must state, in a non offensive, non bitchy, non insulting way, there are two types of alien players:

The Strategist:
"Alright lads *puffs cigar* we need to assault the FOB from the north maintance tunnel, and the south enterance, they don't have it guarded as good as the primary enterance, and they will be distracted with those who go..."

The YOLOist:
"alrite guise iz goon run rite into dis hall that has 2 HMGs and 4 marines guarding it, iz moost pro aliuwm 2015"


The YOLOists tend the be the people that complain about how FOB's are OP, because they dident use their head to think about how to get into them, and just ran head on into a load of gunfire, only to be mowed down by afformentioned 2 HMGs and 4 Marines

The same problem applys to marines assaulting large aliens, or hives:
[/i]

The Strategist:
"Alright, Alpha Team will assault the hive from the south window, it will be exposed to space so you will need to hit EVA before you assault, Bravo team will get the attention of the aliens by surpressing and firing from the main enterance, popping grenades, and setting up a HMG to constantly hold that hall down..."

The Rambo (Sometimes theres real badasses who do this, but a majority of them are chucklefucks):
"ok guise, i gun run rite down the main hall, and fakkin 360 noscope that queen rite in her gabba, den we gun winz k guise"


Overall, FOBs do not need to be removed, Alien players need to try harder to assault them, rather than taking the most heavily defended, heavily fortified, route.

If you wish to satisfy YOLOers, giving marines inflatable walls, foldable tables, and -Light Base Building Equipment- would help prevent marines from building SUPER MEGA ULTRA FORT KNOX OF DEATH. but still allow marines to make bases.


I state, if you do above, its likely marines will find a loophole, and make a better way of defending themseleves, because thats their strategy, that is the only formatable, logical one for them to use, to turtle.

[MrJJJ]

-snip-

Are you serious?

I am very tired about your things....

First you being bitchy about players who whine, then you insult everyone and you also getting up upvoted by gabol for no damn reason

And now this?
WHATS THE POINT MATE REALLY?

You show no damn evidence!

There is no fucking 2 types of players, there is a lot more, but apparently, you felt like including standard marine ignore everything which happen sometimes, and put strategiests as some badasses

If they so badass, tell me.

Where the fuck are they? Let me tell you where they are: you don't see them commonly, because it's almost immpossible to be one, and your no here to be one, people are new, some are veterans, some are grifeirs, some people have bad connection and tend to make marines or aliens worser life

But a like, a load and above 50% of these people are not so strategist, does that mean they yolo? No they don't, there were never 2 type of players, YOLO people exist but rare now, you hold no prove aliens enjoyed it and I am fucking tired

They complain for a reason, undestand this and stop being bitchy already at everyone, give us some damn evidences

You fail to undestand anything, so please....

Stop complaining about people who complain about something

Oh and also
Marines fob are meant to fall eventually, they are able to build a fort of death yes, but damn, use that praetorian or spitter and keep using him on them, if I remeber, they get toxins damage, keep doing it, they just eventually run out of medicine to anti-tox, this is how I got a fob fort that killed 70% of aliens

FOB's rule is still staying, because it just easens marines and aliens life

[AncientV25]

FOB's rule is still staying, because it just easens marines and aliens life

I'm sorry, I don't believe 'easen' is a word.
But, sure. Let's make it so aliens can win easier. It's not like they've already got the highest win ratio or anything.

They complain for a reason, undestand this and stop being bitchy already at everyone, give us some damn evidences

Except, I, as a primarily marine player, do not see a reason for aliens to complain.

[Xurphorus]

Validly, and not being a bitch kind of way, in the past where aliens had to breach huge FOBs, it was stated, by a player on this fourm post, that they enjoy finding weaknesses in huge mega super FOBs, and exploiting them, which means some aliens, not just him, see super FOBs as a fun challenge.

Now, i must state, in a non offensive, non bitchy, non insulting way, there are two types of alien players:

The Strategist:
"Alright lads *puffs cigar* we need to assault the FOB from the north maintance tunnel, and the south enterance, they don't have it guarded as good as the primary enterance, and they will be distracted with those who go..."

The YOLOist:
"alrite guise iz goon run rite into dis hall that has 2 HMGs and 4 marines guarding it, iz moost pro aliuwm 2015"


The YOLOists tend the be the people that complain about how FOB's are OP, because they dident use their head to think about how to get into them, and just ran head on into a load of gunfire, only to be mowed down by afformentioned 2 HMGs and 4 Marines

The same problem applys to marines assaulting large aliens, or hives:
[/i]

The Strategist:
"Alright, Alpha Team will assault the hive from the south window, it will be exposed to space so you will need to hit EVA before you assault, Bravo team will get the attention of the aliens by surpressing and firing from the main enterance, popping grenades, and setting up a HMG to constantly hold that hall down..."

The Rambo (Sometimes theres real badasses who do this, but a majority of them are chucklefucks):
"ok guise, i gun run rite down the main hall, and fakkin 360 noscope that queen rite in her gabba, den we gun winz k guise"


Overall, FOBs do not need to be removed, Alien players need to try harder to assault them, rather than taking the most heavily defended, heavily fortified, route.

If you wish to satisfy YOLOers, giving marines inflatable walls, foldable tables, and -Light Base Building Equipment- would help prevent marines from building SUPER MEGA ULTRA FORT KNOX OF DEATH. but still allow marines to make bases.


I state, if you do above, its likely marines will find a loophole, and make a better way of defending themseleves, because thats their strategy, that is the only formatable, logical one for them to use, to turtle.

This individual just shed the light on the playerbase and the types we come across as both aliens and marines, if none of you see this?.....we are all fucking lost. I have said before I wouldn't say anything more about this ruling and do what I have always done. Make a FoB as defended as possible but only to the letter that this ruling provides. Some players who stand with Chaz, Gabol, or Me have given some good points about this rule being restrictive and cannot take the full blame of the rounds taking too long. There are multiple reasons why a round could take hours to finish, Jesus just put a timer where when the round hits the third hour it will call the shuttle or call a vote for a restart, After that the admins and mods can choose a winner due to numbers and end the round declaring a minor victory for either side or just call it a draw..HELL make it so the nuke timer is set and that will automatically set the draw.

[MrJJJ]

I'm sorry, I don't believe 'easen' is a word.
But, sure. Let's make it so aliens can win easier. It's not like they've already got the highest win ratio or anything.

Win ratio does not really matter, do you not how painful it is to take out 5 FOB's? Which all have giant turrets and a lot of marines in them?
Except, I, as a primarily marine player, do not see a reason for aliens to complain.

Expect, me, as a player on both sides, see a very good reason for aliens to complain

I am sorry but

Are you trying to torture a tired man? If so be it

[Dabbster]

I just want to know why we're confined to 5 specific locations that we can build the FoB? Why not in Science, or Escape, or Chapel, or Kitchen/Bar, or Holodeck?

[HighwaterOffical]

-snip snip-

I never specificly said there was only 2 player types, these are per say, the two "Parties" of players, like democrats and republicans.

-Political Opinion Ahead-


Think of Democrats as the YOLO players, They spend recklessly on things that don't need to be spent on, they give out free things that don't need to be given out, and they support people who don't need to be supported.

Think of Republicans as the Strategic players, they think about things before they do it, they address things that need to be addressed, and they a blunt, straight forward, and clear on what they wish to say.

-Political Opinion End-

Both statements above are 2 extremes of each parties, per say, the rednecks, and the hipsters, of political parties.

There are parties between the two extremes, (See: Nationalists, Illuminists) that can be represented in a way that is indifferent between the to, and acts for each of the two extremes in a way that is best for both parties as a whole, as such, they would be desired.

-Put in a way that attempts to make you unbiased because i posted in politely the first go around.

[MrJJJ]

I never specificly said there was only 2 player types, these are per say, the two "Parties" of players, like democrats and republicans.

Well these are more parties, but a YOLO party exists, and aliens have a lot more than marines for some reason, i seen aliens just go like "QUEEN! JELLY PLEASE!* and they kept yelling me for jelly despite the fact that AI core, which was our hive, WAS UNDER ATTACK by 10 MARINES!

its pretty annoying when you are strict queen and you are defending and it turns out your alien minions are just simply wanting jelly so they can final tier evolve and yolo at marines…

the rest of your post though, can't say much, YOLO party is commonly seen in aliens, marines you might encounter, but they just not as bad as aliens, i like when i encounter the strategist party though, its always nice having a fellow alien that is not so "jelly please?" and actually listens to you and gives you some serious advice, or better, when they are the queen and order around so good, it just destroys marines too quick.

sorry if i was rude, i was just tired of all the the stupid 3 sentinels just asking "queen! jelly please!* with me responding *After we deal with these damn hosts* which were like, surrounding us and trying to grenade the ever living soul out of me, while sentinels kept running around and requesting for jelly and how it "makes them stronger" and that they all just "need it or they die" i tried very hard to win that round, wasted a lot of energy, although hit arrived and they lets say won, if they did not, i would win, so i still counted it as win for aliens.

Whats more funny is, the marines barricaded sulaco briefing room so good, all of my aliens as usual died, only 5 lived, and we still killed them, but it was thanks to some fools on marine side doing something..but if there was none, we would have never breached it

[apophis775]

Well, this has been going on for a week. I am unconvinced, so, Denied and Locked.

If you want to start this discussion again, make a new topic, and try to keep it more professional and less rude/flamey.