Colonial Marines and the Benos winrates are not what you think.

[Slywater]

I think that some sort of winrate logging would be great if the devs could implement it. It would be nice to see as a player, but it could also be beneficial for the devs to balance the two sides.

[WinterClould]

One time I took Delta into the East Caves of LV to try and flank the xenos that we're holding out to the north. 70+ walls of T H I C C resin just for us to get meme screeched and shit on. Rip my lads that dug that tunnel with me. You were all real heroes. The speed at which Hivelords can place walls..... They can build new ones before you break the first one then instantly replace the old one..

[Heckenshutze]

Stuns (Screeches), Boilers, and Rav/Crushers could hold a point.

But how many Crushers/Ravs/Boilers can be in one hive?

Even at full house, the marine force is way bigger, maybe they could kill 2/3 of them (plus the FF) but eventually they would fall, like an inverted WO

[Simo94]

It doesnt matter how many marines there are, on offense atleast, because of the FF system, there is a natural bottleneck for marines even in open fields like tablefort, the only marines that matter are the ones at the very front line.

[misto]

the maturing mechanic needs to be re-examined. it has needed to be re examined for a long time. young xenos are basically a burden to the hive and everyone knows it, hence half-assed time-wasting "fixes" like the LV fogwall.

[Salty Ghost]

I think that the current winrate is a direct result of the new Queen mechanic and the lack of adjustment from the xeno players.
It used to be really easy to capture marines and infect them because of the constant barrage of queen screeches. This not only allowed
the increased the xenos numbers with every captured but it also tended to kill key elements from the marine side
ie: Squad Leaders, Medics, specs, etc. Without the screech it's mostly baldies privates that gets killed on the front line. Also, the xenos
doesn't help their case because they mostly kill easy captures, and don't try to capture at all.

[Gnorse]

Yeah, Xenos just kill everything is all. Literally saw a couple of hunters killing wounded marines one by kne when they were travelling ALONE.

[Kesserline]

Actually, there are 4 factors :

- Delta has found a new AP meta, and some RO/Command are following it. Delivering more AP mags/boxes/rounds to Delta. Believe it or not, Delta is the most suicidal squad. But banzai charges usually works by taking at least 1 xeno for 1 marine. When you have some robustos on, and with some decent leadership, Delta can largely kill twice xenos compared to its numbers.

- Xenos, had been encouraged to have a bad habit because of the late-larva spawning for weeks. Who cares about infecting ? When 10 free larvas came from the ground ? Kill them all.

- Also, the reduced number of Xenos at round start, xenos are not used to that. They used to have numbers, pretty huge numbers. Who cares about new larvas ? Kill all those hosts !

- Hive suffers more from bad leadership than marines.

________________________________________________________

Suggestion, even if I'm fond of AP (and even if I'm part of the love-spreading-AP among the platoon), and because this is the ONLY LAST counter against the queen (because immuned to stun so no grenades, no chance to prevent screech with RPG or else), AP should be tuned down in its use.

AP should be most expensive, around 10 to 15 points more, both for mags and boxes.

In its very nature, AP is effective against everything. Against T1/T2, mature to ancient all castes, and it brights in killing T3, also the queen.
Just throw in AP, and show the xenos who's the boss.

Either Devs can give us more specific counters to avoid having ONE miracle thing (before we had TRUE peridaxon and QC). Perhaps give us some ghetto RPG, or ghetto phosphorus nades or shits.

Actually, we have no other options than AP. Nades are useless, their primary use was to stun the queen when she arrived, after or before screech, to trap her and destroy her.

________________________________________________________


To sum it up, about the winrate :

75% of the reasons are Hive-Side.

25% of the reasons comes from the liberal use of AP.

[AnthonyAT33]

- Delta has found a new AP meta, and some RO/Command are following it. Delivering more AP mags/boxes/rounds to Delta. Believe it or not, Delta is the most suicidal squad. But banzai charges usually works by taking at least 1 xeno for 1 marine. When you have some robustos on, and with some decent leadership, Delta can largely kill twice xenos compared to its numbers.

This.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

- Hive suffers more from bad leadership than marines.

I feel that it's because the sudden turn from a Drone into a Queen. Queen is such a massive difficulty curve for xeno. You're being a drone, chilling and weeding, maybe planting some walls here and there, and then BAM, your queen is dead, and you're expected to replace her. You don't know anything about Queen's ability (this is mostly for new players) and you just get this responsibility dropped on your head from outta nowhere.

Let's see this on the marine side. Yeah, they can suffer from bad leadership as well, but they have layers to make up for it. SLs fuck up ? You still have SOs to generally guide your squad to an objective. CO isn't there ? You still have XO who can do most of CO's job outside of BE, or you have SOs who can still use Overwatch consoles to help marines out. Xeno just doesn't have these. All of these responsibilities are on the queen, and the queen alone. Sure, you can assign leader and all, but they are still too busy with their own battles, their own ability. They can't help you like SOs can for XO/CO. Also, unlike CO and XO, Queen dying basically kills every chance of co-operating for xeno, because their hivemind gets shut off for 5 minutes; but CO/XO dying, while still a massive hit to marine, is no where near if you have XO (CO's death), SOs, SLs, aSLs, other departments' heads.

If there's a middle ground, let's say another T2 caste for Drones that lets them use Queen's overwatch ability, to join in with pheromones and heals/plasmas along with the Queen, it can be great for new players and vets alike. Queens won't be constantly bugged for heals and pheromones, and new players have an easier time to ease into this responsibility that is Queen. But the idea is just too ridiculous, and it's probably too much work.

[Kesserline]

On the queen dying aspect :

Just to remind that Queen got OVERBUFFED. There is no excuse to fuck up as a queen.

(I don't talk about the leadership of it eh).

Damn, the queen got charge + directional armor + immune to stun + explosion damage reduction + neuro tox and acid spit. If a queen gets in a position to die, and fucks her own hive by doing so, she deserves it. She had to get on her ovi mode instead of being on the frontline, like most queen do because of those ultra-overbuffs.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

On the queen dying aspect :

Just to remind that Queen got OVERBUFFED. There is no excuse to fuck up as a queen.

(I don't talk about the leadership of it eh).

Damn, the queen got charge + directional armor + immune to stun + explosion damage reduction + neuro tox and acid spit. If a queen gets in a position to die, and fucks her own hive by doing so, she deserves it. She had to get on her ovi mode instead of being on the frontline, like most queen do because of those ultra-overbuffs.

Oh I absolutely agree, queen got buffed to hell and back. I don't even think Elite Empress and up can even die if you have a bit of a brain and respect your limits.

[KingPhilipIII]

As far as not bothering to capture, for me personally it's not so much because I don't care, although I can't speak for everyone, but the associated risk is too massive.

If the Queen knocks down an entire squad and everyone's under control that's one thing, but it rarely if ever plays out that way. Normally I'm a single hunter out engaging behind the lines marines, and if I try to drag one back I risk it getting away and my effort was for nothing. If I try to abduct one during a charge I run an extremely high risk of being shot into crit and dying trying to drag back my capture when the marines push back.

It's just safer to start taking heads rather than risk getting killed over someone you might not even catch.

[Casany]

As far as not bothering to capture, for me personally it's not so much because I don't care, although I can't speak for everyone, but the associated risk is too massive.

If the Queen knocks down an entire squad and everyone's under control that's one thing, but it rarely if ever plays out that way. Normally I'm a single hunter out engaging behind the lines marines, and if I try to drag one back I risk it getting away and my effort was for nothing. If I try to abduct one during a charge I run an extremely high risk of being shot into crit and dying trying to drag back my capture when the marines push back.

It's just safer to start taking heads rather than risk getting killed over someone you might not even catch.

I know this isn’t true. One young runner can easily capture a marine. Tacklespam then devour. Marines can’t access any weapons or reverse burst when they’ve been devoured so there’s no reason not to. Well, besides the obvious ‘kill everything’ mindset

[Gnorse]

I know this isn’t true. One young runner can easily capture a marine. Tacklespam then devour. Marines can’t access any weapons or reverse burst when they’ve been devoured so there’s no reason not to. Well, besides the obvious ‘kill everything’ mindset

Yeah, no.
I'm pretty damn sure you can access weapons while devoured since I remember a runner eating me up and getting surprised when I crit him from the inside using cuckshot.

[Casany]

Yeah, no.
I'm pretty damn sure you can access weapons while devoured since I remember a runner eating me up and getting surprised when I crit him from the inside using cuckshot.

Yeah no. I was devoured for 2 minutes at full health by a runner, I couldn’t even pull out my knives. Either my clicks didn’t register for only those minutes (as when it spit me up I was able to instantly pull out my knife and try to run) or you can’t pull anything out inside a xeno anymore. And this was only last weekend.

[Gnorse]

Yeah no. I was devoured for 2 minutes at full health by a runner, I couldn’t even pull out my knives. Either my clicks didn’t register for only those minutes (as when it spit me up I was able to instantly pull out my knife and try to run) or you can’t pull anything out inside a xeno anymore. And this was only last weekend.

I Don't know, such a change probably would've been put in the changelog
*shrug

[Sulaboy]

I Don't know, such a change probably would've been put in the changelog
*shrug

Pretty sure it is a bug, might have changed from the click update. There are two bug reports for this on the gitlab.

[Heckenshutze]

Pretty sure it is a bug, might have changed from the click update. There are two bug reports for this on the gitlab.

Exactly.

It's issued as a bug, may need a bump from the players, everyday new suggestions arrives and soak the old ones

[misto]

I feel that it's because the sudden turn from a Drone into a Queen. Queen is such a massive difficulty curve for xeno. You're being a drone, chilling and weeding, maybe planting some walls here and there, and then BAM, your queen is dead, and you're expected to replace her. You don't know anything about Queen's ability (this is mostly for new players) and you just get this responsibility dropped on your head from outta nowhere.

If there's a middle ground, let's say another T2 caste for Drones that lets them use Queen's overwatch ability, to join in with pheromones and heals/plasmas along with the Queen, it can be great for new players and vets alike. Queens won't be constantly bugged for heals and pheromones, and new players have an easier time to ease into this responsibility that is Queen. But the idea is just too ridiculous, and it's probably too much work.

https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/2513

i made a suggestion for making praetorian into the official replacement queens path

[SovietKitty]

Young xenomorphs haven't been a problem it just means you need to play safer/smarter for a bit and not blindly rush into a swarm of marines. Young xenos should be targetting lone marines, or working with others to take down larger packs.

[Ttly]

Young xenomorphs haven't been a problem it just means you need to play safer/smarter for a bit and not blindly rush into a swarm of marines. Young xenos should be targetting lone marines, or working with others to take down larger packs.

Yeah, but most of the young ayys are usually impatient and rush then die anyway.

[AVagrant]

Exactly.

It's issued as a bug, may need a bump from the players, everyday new suggestions arrives and soak the old ones

It's a pretty serious bug, since pretty much every time I play marine it's been: get stunned while alive and tackle slammed while vored by the same xeno. Then I get to watch while being dragged back to base.

On topic, this is probably a combo of the queen update, low pop, and marines actually charging.

Instead of nerfing marines, possibly something could be brought up on xenos.

[misto]

Young xenomorphs haven't been a problem it just means you need to play safer/smarter for a bit and not blindly rush into a swarm of marines. Young xenos should be targetting lone marines, or working with others to take down larger packs.

over time, most marines have correctly adapted to the game and rarely travel alone, so that's mostly out. even then, elite hunter xxx probably got to them before you did and did a better job of it. when young xenos work with others to try to take down larger groups they either get killed themselves (hence queens often literally ordering youngs to sit on their ass and wait to mature) or risk getting in the way of a bigger and more important xenos and getting -them- killed (or being accused of it, even if it wasnt quite the case)on the retreat, once again resulting in people screaming at them to go sit on their ass doing nothing.

i say "youngs" here but this also applies in general to t1s of most ages, its just most commonly seen in young t1s, especially runnas, because they foolishly join the game expecting to be able to play the game immediately instead of having to wait more

also ps. pure bullshit on "young xenomorphs havent been a problem" the admins put in an impenetrable fogwall on one of the maps for the express purpose of giving xenos bonus time to get old. if that isnt a direct admittance that yung xenos are pathetic i dont know what is

[Surrealistik]

AP should be most expensive, around 10 to 15 points more, both for mags and boxes.

Disagree.

It's not that AP should change or cost more, it's that Xenos should be reconfigured such that AP is less effective against them, and regular rounds more so (instead of being painfully ineffective against heavily armoured beanos to the point of nigh uselessness); in otherwords, trade out armour for more HP:

https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/2661