Update Discussion thread (14FEB18)

[MattAtlas]

QFA was balanced out by having a very low number of it in attachment vendors. Not making it fit at all was a bad solution, to be honest. You could've changed the QFA's bonus so that the faster the original RoF is, the smaller the effect.

Not much point in using the QFA if they did what you're saying. Its RoF bonus would've been pretty pathetic. Might as well remove it.

I like these gun changes. I really do, I always felt like the QFA dished way too much damage.

[WinterClould]

I'm sad to see it go, but this is the kind of balance change you won't hear me cry over. I hope this works out well in the way the Devs want. Still salt over my General Comms and Bedhead 3 being removed though.

[Vampmare]

I like this attachment thing as a way to break the current meta and open up for new ideas. It is must better than the "marines can't use pills, medhuds and insert next thing". While one opens up for new things by ending others, the other is just a plain restriction that forces everyone into the same thing.

I'll be trying out different loadouts now, that's for sure.

[Gnorse]

Now that I played a couple rounds testing out new attachments, they really don't do that much.
The QFA nerf is really busting my balls, though.

To the lads who say that QFA is good for sidearms ... No. Pistols in general aren't used for ANYTHING except suicide.

[Surrealistik]

Lol, okay so apparently jamming was stealth added recently, including for caseless weapons such as the pulse rifle which should be just about impossible.

Better to leave that fact to the thrill of discovery than spoil it with a sterile, uninspiring update note that will never quite capture the majesty of getting fucked mid-combat by a tiny one line message you'll never see in the onslaught of claw attacks and friendly fire telling you how fucked you are as you ask, moments before your untimely and consequent death, why oh why dear god is your weapon not firing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjKbw1Cqpt0

[Gnorse]

Upon further testing, I have been missing most of my buckshot shots using a gyro RDS shotgun at point blank range. One shotgun, not dual wield.

This update did it. I'm sorry lads, but I'll be "leaving" for a month or two. Hopefully the balance returns.

[zoboomafoo]

Adding gun jamming is pretty nasty, but doing it without a changelog? That's just a big middle finger straight to the marines.

Also buckshot seems to be stunning xenos less consistently now, I've noticed.

[Rohesie]

I missed 9 shots out of 10 with a QF+BC+angled grip HPR, without burst, clicking on the xeno sprites, dual-wielding. It feels like aim has been reduced a lot, but that may just be me. Could any dev confirm?

The medhud update is very bad. In fact, such as xenos can see their injured comrades I kind of feel that it should be universal to marines the health status of their comrades. You should be able to see at a glance if someone is fucked up and limping. In any case, the change drifts the possibilities of PFCs being support and focuses them on combat. It's very sad for us who are more into teamwork and less into just killing.

[Cry of Wolves]

Weapon Jamming was thing added to explain a bug that has always been present. Your rifle not firing when you move a tile towards the direction you were firing at. NOTHING has changed.

[solidfury7]

Removing it doesn't even make sense in lore either tbh.

I'm talking about medical huds.

[phil235]

Jamming's been in the game for two years...

Onehanded shotgun being very inaccurate isn't really intended, we need to tweak values and stuff.

[Cpkeyes]

Removing it doesn't even make sense in lore either tbh.

I mean, the Pulse Rifle is caseless. So it kinda does make sense to remove it for lore reasons.

[Celestial_Moon]

You devs Messed my dual shotguns up, so it better be fixed soon. And that whole dual wielding shoots both guns sucks for me because i went through like all my shells (over a hundred) in a prolonged battle

[phil235]

You devs Messed my dual shotguns up, so it better be fixed soon. And that whole dual wielding shoots both guns sucks for me because i went through like all my shells (over a hundred) in a prolonged battle

If you were using dual shotguns with gyro before, congratulations, you're one of the reason dual wield with poor accuracy has been added.

[Renomaki]

If you were using dual shotguns with gyro before, congratulations, you're one of the reason dual wield with poor accuracy has been added.

The old saying goes, this is why we can't have nice things.

You give em something nice, and then they take it above and beyond to the point that staff have to take it away.

I am still bitter about losing the ability to fart because of that shit....

[GenericUsername]

I think the medhud and gun updates need to be reavaliated. I mean, literally no one likes em for various reasons. Guess it's time we get to test updates before permanently adding them.

[spicemoron]

Once again something that's more of a Quality of Life improvement rather than a factor that moves the ratio away from THE IDEAL gets ruined.

I do wonder if the hidden pill bottle label change will be reverted given child locks have been a thing for a while.

[Sulaboy]

I feel like this update was meant to push us to play differently. It was really silly to get two gyros and just dish out 10mm like no tomorrow. The medhud changes shouldn't change that much. With the buff to medic numbers, medics can move with the squad while treating people. The gun changes aren't the end of the world, and now we can do some really neat dual pistol stuff, plus you can beef up the M39 with the stock and some other attachments. I am sure there will be some more changes coming along to refine this, and this could end up being a good thing for the game.

[Mann handle]

I feel like this update was meant to push us to play differently. It was really silly to get two gyros and just dish out 10mm like no tomorrow. The medhud changes shouldn't change that much. With the buff to medic numbers, medics can move with the squad while treating people. The gun changes aren't the end of the world, and now we can do some really neat dual pistol stuff, plus you can beef up the M39 with the stock and some other attachments. I am sure there will be some more changes coming along to refine this, and this could end up being a good thing for the game.

On the whole I like the new attachments but some of the values like the spread really need a change, it's not really fun when you miss targets at point blank or you hit marines by accident with bullets traveling wildly out of the barrel of a fusil

Thing is, the M39 is still the M39 now with the added liability of needed two hands to use it effectively. Sure dual shotguns and rifles were bad but you rarely saw those on the field and I don't mind the tweak, hammering accuracy on what would normally be a single gyro'd gun like medics hurts a bit. Also misfires are common as fuck and somewhat funny at first until you receive AP in the chest while said marine was trying to clear weeds.

MedHuds are a QoL nerf for anyone who wanted to assist in body pulling, which has little reason as to why you'd nerf it anyway. Infact can we now NAME pill bottles because of the child locks? might make medical roles a little less stressful when you're pouring through pill bottles trying to find the obscure drug someone needs.

[spookydonut]

Accuracy/spread hasn't been changed much yet, still a lot of tweaking to be done.

[HKO20006]

About QF's new limitation, I have two videos about it, not the whole videos are relevant so I picked starting time.

Power Creep - The Trouble with Expansions and Time - Extra Credits
https://youtu.be/Bxszx60ZwGw?t=3m54s

Perfect Imbalance - Why Unbalanced Design Creates Balanced Play - Extra Credits
https://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w?t=2m54s

Ever since I tried QF EB, I stopped using other attachment sets since QF EB are just too good, it's like 1.5x damage output while having high accuracy.

I have yet found a supplement for QF EB though, maybe a throwback to RDS bayonet two nades? I am not sure.

[Sulaboy]

I have yet found a supplement for QF EB though, maybe a throwback to RDS bayonet two nades? I am not sure.

This is a pretty good load out, grenades still work great even after the explosive stun nerf, bayonets also a great for clearing resin or getting through thick Xeno armor. You can go for RDS or a rail flash, because accuracy drop isn't that bad.

[Rohesie]

I see the wiki has been updated. I still don't understand several things:

Mini rail scope majorly increases accuracy while rail scope only slightly does so?
What's 'wield delay'?
Is the vertical grip identical to the old forward grip, just renamed?
Why is it a benefit of the angled grip to decrease accuracy?
What purpose do gyros serve now?
How is the accuracy for moving calculated? You get a penalty a number of ticks after moving?

[phil235]

I see the wiki has been updated. I still don't understand several things:

Mini rail scope majorly increases accuracy while rail scope only slightly does so?
What's 'wield delay'?
Is the vertical grip identical to the old forward grip, just renamed?
Why is it a benefit of the angled grip to decrease accuracy?
What purpose do gyros serve now?
How is the accuracy for moving calculated? You get a penalty a number of ticks after moving?

wiki might be erroneous, mini scope is identical to normal scope, just with less magnification.
Angled grip only decrease one-handed accuracy.

Wield delay is the time delay before you can fire you gun after wielding it. Around a second or so depending on the gun, to give you an idea.

Vertical grip is the old forward grip's new name, yes.

Gyros helps when firing one-handed, reduces accuracy penalty from burst fire and moving while firing. It does not increase your accuracy though.

Accuracy penalty from movement is applied if you've moved very recently. And only applies when firing one-handed. When you fire with two hands you already get a movement slowdown, so it wouldn't make sense to apply the movement penalty to it. Basically, you can move fast and fire inaccurately, or move slower and fire more accurately.

[Rohesie]

wiki might be erroneous, mini scope is identical to normal scope, just with less magnification.

So mini scope is simply inferior or equal in every way to the normal one? Not even lesser fire delay?

Angled grip only decrease one-handed accuracy.

The only purpose of the grip is to start firing faster when you haven't wielded it yet, then? Seems like a poor attachment to have.

Gyros helps when firing one-handed, reduces accuracy penalty from burst fire and moving while firing. It does not increase your accuracy though.

Wiki says the laser sight increases accuracy (moderately while one handed, sightly while two-handed, does that mean it's better to shoot one-handed with it?), greatly reduces bullet spread, and slightly decreases accuracy when moving. Both attachments seem to have differences, but very little, occupying the same niche. It this correct/intended?

Thanks for the answers!