Actual Balanced Marine Comm Nerf Discussion

[Symbiosis]

I, for one, greatly support this update. It has made picking off small groups much easier, rarely do other squads show up.

[Heckenshutze]

I sometimes go PFC because I'm damn good at killing xeno scum and don't want to deal with any shit regarding command and their shitty tactics.

Fixed.

atta boy

[Monoo]

...Ahem? I'm right here!

You're apparently not bestgirl status yet, lmao

[EXOTICISME]

At first im actually ok with this, and then marines start grabing station bounced radio and turning on the microphone, resulting the chat box getting bombarded with same messages because there's a lot of other people near them with microphone on. Which is way worse than before the update

[getfreur]

#removeradio

[lgmmrm]

Apparently what everyone is saying is "I cant rambo and leave my squad now that I can only speak to them"
If you are PFC Mc Bootface, you relay your information to your SL, not another SL, and not above your SL.

Literally just stick with your squad and there are no comms problems.

Having played SL once or twice before...

There's no such thing as sticking to your squad.

[Musely]

I don't like this nerf. It's perhaps too early to definitively say though.

[Trench007]

At first im actually ok with this, and then marines start grabing station bounced radio and turning on the microphone, resulting the chat box getting bombarded with same messages because there's a lot of other people near them with microphone on. Which is way worse than before the update

I can confirm that the station radio spam makes reading chat an eyesore, especially when multiple people with them are in close proximity. It almost makes me wish that they would just remove the station bounced radios.

[LocalizedDownpour]

I can confirm that the station radio spam makes reading chat an eyesore, especially when multiple people with them are in close proximity. It almost makes me wish that they would just remove the station bounced radios.

SBR's are likely going to get removed if people are using them like this to bypass the update.

[misto]

at least let general comms, or some kind of functionally equivalent emergency comms, turn on when the DS hits. i understand wanting the squads to work as units early operation and mid operation, but most of the squadmembers are dead by the endgame so communicating with your squad can add up to being able to talk to two or three other people, at this time of crisis, and you cant count on having a wall intercom to hand.

[spookydonut]

After xenos board is when mouthy pfcs are at their worst

[Casany]

Just add a button in the CIC that needs the CO and XO to swipe, and it allows general comms for marines. But it only activated after an hour and a half. I mean, can’t be to hard.

[misto]

mouthy? youre worried about people being mouthy? hey hey, here's a fun idea. how about you give SO's or command guys a "mute x from general comms for 5/10/15 minutes" button? then, if people are "being mouthy" there's a simple ingame way to deal with it that doesn't involve gutting team communication in a team-based game

[Winter]

I don't like this update at all. I RP and chatter a lot over the comms and it's just so quiet now.

[trustscience44]

I am curious about the intended actions of the changes. Were changes intended to lower roleplay engagement between squads / across general coms / and across interactions of ranking/ unranking / figures of authority, Am I understanding this correct? Also I believe the intention was to increase RolePlay within the squad dynamic itself, such as cohesion, tactical and rankings?

However, it seems the limits from the actual consequences are extreme. Take for instance, if you are in a shit squad which has terrible roleplay and is genuinely overly 'meme' annoying, at the end of the day, You or the average Joe is not a trend-setting RolePlay God and can not suddenly fix this for the dozens of others in the squad, you are unable to talk over coms to anyone else,therefore, the user is locked into their squads 'unga dunga' patterns in roleplay land without the possibility or capability of any other interactions, for better or worse.

In my opinion this results in a terrible experience for the end-user, the user is shown only one pattern of roleplay for perhaps what is their first time on this server. Generally, we are able to interact with marines across hundreds of possible players roleplaying when listening to General Coms chatter. On Gen Coms, we might hear during a typical round, wounded on the ground, downed making it back, Medics that needs more supplies, flanks, squad interactions, department interactions, and so much, adding to what I think was a better experience.

I think as far as newer players go, which I do not know the statistics of the servers for adminhelps about communications or radios, or the number of times 'how do i use my radio' is said in looc. I have not seen this much from my experience. Considering that, I DO feel like the extra layers of channels given to the marines prepared them for future command roles much more appropriately. There is already a lot to consider when someone new decides to try their first command role and the interactions + responsibilities that come with that choice, adding more onto that experience, at least in this way, feels like too much.

Last, I feel that the station is very lonely and empty. This to me feels exaggerated and more apparent during late night rounds on the server. I do like the squad interactions that come from this update and the care marines show towards one another with their squad mates. I feel 'squad care' increased a lot and brings more marines who might be shy or over-saturated with sprites and chatter into more squad coms conversations, instead of how some you see never speaking on any coms channel. Personally, for short times, I have experienced more squads coms than years past, significantly more interaction and cohesion in squad order. Have seen nearly everyone on the squad talking instead of just a few. Maybe they feel their voice is heard more and taken more seriously or that the lack of communications choices makes consistent contact with one's squad much more important? Overall, though, the changes feel too limiting due to reasons stated above. That's my 2cent.

[Feweh]

You guys were spoiled with general comms for so long.

It being removed no matter what the reason is would result in complaints as it lowers the players enjoyment of being able to scream over the radio for instant help and gratification.

This was done for a few reasons.

1. Improve chat clutter.
- SS13 was not built with have 150+ Players screaming all over one general channel. You all know how fucked our chat logs are, they are often ignored or missed completely due to all the chat.

2. Lore/Realism
- SS13 it makes sense that everyone on the ship has a general channel. However it does not make sense in a military type sim for the Privates to be yelling at the CO.

3. Improved Squad Cohesion & Command reliance.
- Now you have to stay with your squad, communicate with your squad mates and coordinate with Command. Gone are the days of players running off solo to hangout with Alpha Squad because they like them better.
BUT FEWEH WHAT IF COMMAND IS INCOMPETENT!!!11!!! - LITERALLY this applies to every role, DOCTOR, COMMAND, PO's, MT'S, SL's. Stop acting like an incompetent person in a role is anything new to SS13 or CM, it happens and has been an issue with the game for ages.

4. Reduce LOW RP & General Bullshit.
- Really General Comms was memed alot and filled with random screaming. So often was a marine getting arrested that he'd yell over general comms to mutiny, or you'd have some guy talking about stupid bullshit while an alien eats people.

5. General Coms was just too good, with little downsides.
- Seriously and this is the most obvious one. It made pretty much EVERY sub-channel completely NULL and useless. Why use Squad channels when you can use general, its far more efficient.


I don't expect the common player to like this or your generic power-gamer. People are simply going to bitch because they lost of quality of life feature that was just TOO GOOD.
This is CM and General Coms really never fit well into our style of gameplay.

Dev always has future updates and without saying much they'll eventually be more added on to this system.

tl;dr: Same generic marine complainers crying about the same bullshit everytime.

[Winter]

I can see that. I just really miss the chatter and RP. It's a bit tougher shipside to talk to people. The ship feels a lot lonelier.

[misto]

tl;dr: Same generic marine complainers crying about the same bullshit everytime.

if you want complaints about a xeno related comms change ill say that turning off hivemind comms when the queen is dead makes it a bitch and a half to try to reorganize the fuckers to get them to stop panicking and dying, even if it is a slight relief to be spared from the old "waaa need new queen now drone go queen now" "no you need to wait 5 minutes before the game lets someone become queen" "drone go queen now" bs every time

also god, at least make up ya mind. was general comms "cluttered and often ignored" or was it "too good"?

[Urytion]

It being removed no matter what the reason is would result in complaints as it lowers the players enjoyment of being able to scream over the radio for instant help and gratification.

[snip]

I don't expect the common player to like this or your generic power-gamer. People are simply going to bitch because they lost of quality of life feature that was just TOO GOOD.
This is CM and General Coms really never fit well into our style of gameplay.

Dev always has future updates and without saying much they'll eventually be more added on to this system.

tl;dr: Same generic marine complainers crying about the same bullshit everytime.

We knew it would cause complaints, we knew the vast majority of people wouldn't like it, we did it anyway because realism in our game about 2D spacemen fighting giant acid lizards from outer space, and salt. -Feweh 2018.

Like, I agree with the reasons listed to a certain extent, but it really does feel like taking a sledgehammer to a scalpel job. Giving command the ability to mute/enable general comms would be cool. Give the comms/command console in the centre the ability to just completely turn off general comms for everyone that isn't currently able to use it, and give all OW consoles the ability to revoke general comms access. If XOs and COs hate our bullshit so much, they'll use it.

If we're really determined to keep marines off general, then give us planetside read access so pilots and doctors can announce their arrival.

But mostly I just miss the chatter. I played on a decent (120ish) pop round the other day. Squad barely spoke. I was just following a guy who only gave orders and didn't really RP or have any characterisation, then I shot aliens, then I died. It was boring as fuck. There was no RP at all. The SO said go somewhere, the SL said "yeah okay." and we followed the SL. Then there were aliens, so we all wordlessly shot at the aliens. Then we moved on. THE EXCITEMENT.

[Kesserline]

First 3 rounds with the new comm update :

The removal of global comms made my SL life not more easier right now. But it makes rambos life harder.
On a short term basis, it'll help SLs to have stronger squads with more cohesion.
At this moment, it'll still be painful. But I think one or two weeks will be needed for the USCM playerbase to adapt.

I'm sorry to say that, but rambos may be effective, still they are dipshits that ruin squad cohesions. Marines are sheep, and when you see a rambo in your squad in danger, you'll help him. No matter what your SL orders are. And when the rambo pushes ? You'll follow him and help him. And you end up at the other side of the map while your squad hasn't move or went in the opposite direction.

Punishing that is not a bad thing.

It's the fact that we are to RP marines. Marines obey, even conscripted. They are trained, conditionned to obey, to do the job, to face the difficulties. They shall not pussy out, unless when really routed.

Use squad comms, rely on your SL. If your SL is a dipshit ? Help him. If he is a real hard dipshit ? Make the job at his place and rally boys on your location. If the SO is a dipshit as well and you're still not aSL ? Make your own tactics, but make it with your squad. Stop doing things alone.

I'm not fond of Marines nerfs, but this one for me is an opportunity for marines playerbase to step up and stop being dipshits for some of them. Be a dipshit ? Get punished and isolated. Be fun ? Be nice ? Be a squaddie ? Get rewarded by sticking and having a teamplay experience.

___________________________________

HOWEVER, there is a heavy dark point on that update : more pressure on leading roles.

If your SL is decent, and your SO is decent, you can make things good.
If your SL is decent, and your SO is shit.. well, you can still get around.
If both are shits, and you don't step up (if you have the capacity to step up) : your squad is fucked, more than ever.

Maybe get some more incentives for SLs to get more QoL on the ground, to have less pressure, or to encourage good leaders that don't want to play SL for SLing. (There are a good number of potential good leaders that do not step up, because it's too messy).

[Renomaki]

You know, I don't get why people say that removing general comms negatively affects RP for them. It is as if they forgot that they can still talk to people locally.

All I remember from General Comms is people constantly spewing nonsense at each other.... While 5 feet away from each other. Just like how the human race is nowadays with people texting each other on their phones despite being within talking distance.

Removing general comms is like taking away a person's Iphone, meaning now they have to... *gulp*... TALK to people... IN PERSON.

Really, if people are concerned about roleplay, it just means that now your roleplay is either going to be done within your own squad or within normal talking range of other people. You can't just be "texting" on your "phone" with your buddies in Delta anymore. You got 30 minutes before deployment, go talk to them on the Almayer before you deploy to the planet and probably never see them again.

[Heckenshutze]

You know, I don't get why people say that removing general comms negatively affects RP for them. It is as if they forgot that they can still talk to people locally.

All I remember from General Comms is people constantly spewing nonsense at each other.... While 5 feet away from each other. Just like how the human race is nowadays with people texting each other on their phones despite being within talking distance.

Removing general comms is like taking away a person's Iphone, meaning now they have to... *gulp*... TALK to people... IN PERSON.

Really, if people are concerned about roleplay, it just means that now your roleplay is either going to be done within your own squad or within normal talking range of other people. You can't just be "texting" on your "phone" with your buddies in Delta anymore. You got 30 minutes before deployment, go talk to them on the Almayer before you deploy to the planet and probably never see them again.

the "They took my Arpee!" excuse is weak as hell by the reasons you gave above. People's main complain is they made Ramboing or defecting from your squad and squad objectives to go to the frontlines harder. And I think that's good.

Scouting is harder now? Then, as CO/XO adapt. Make new strategies. it doesn't matter if reckless boots don't follow them and stick to the Old Ways, at least, you gave them something different to stand a chance.

Info has to be delivered now by the chain of command? Good, now you will demand and make sure your SO's are competent and good otherwise you're utterly fucked before dropping, same with SL's.. if your SL is being shit, talk to the SO, Demotion and done. Nobody's up for the role? Do it yourself and show those cupcakes how it's done.

Spotted an enemy but can't call for reinforcements? Tough luck, you'll have to rely on your SO. Spam him until he makes the other SO's to tell their squads to aid you up. But for that, you must hold your position or survive long enough, for your own sake.

Can't order a full charge now? Shit that's bad.. but you still actually can. Spam your SO or XO/CO to make an announcement with the Intel you have, order a full charge (or a full retreat) to/from an area.

Think smart, think like real military men.

Start acting like ultimate badasses and stop whining.

[Urytion]

You know, I don't get why people say that removing general comms negatively affects RP for them. It is as if they forgot that they can still talk to people locally.

All I remember from General Comms is people constantly spewing nonsense at each other.... While 5 feet away from each other. Just like how the human race is nowadays with people texting each other on their phones despite being within talking distance.

Removing general comms is like taking away a person's Iphone, meaning now they have to... *gulp*... TALK to people... IN PERSON.

Really, if people are concerned about roleplay, it just means that now your roleplay is either going to be done within your own squad or within normal talking range of other people. You can't just be "texting" on your "phone" with your buddies in Delta anymore. You got 30 minutes before deployment, go talk to them on the Almayer before you deploy to the planet and probably never see them again.

Talk to people in person, but stick to your squads. And don't wander off. But talk to others in person.

[EXOTICISME]

To be honest i don't see why removing general comms affects your RP at all because the most common thing you hear in general is ungas screaming nonsense like:
-"UNGAS DUNGAS ME WANT ATTACHMENT!"
-"COMMANDER YOU BETTER DO x OR IM GONNA BLOW THE WHOLE PLACE!"
-"PO HOLD THE SHIP! I SAID HOLD THE SHIP YOU COCKSUCKER IM GETTING MY ATTACHMENT!"
-*insert random unimportant cursing here*

It's very refreshing when you don't have to look at all the ungas banter in the general comms as now they are restricted only to their squad comms, no more ungas talking back to their superior. If you want to RP then do it with your squad, make a better relationship with your squad and raise your squad cohesion. All in all the update is fine we just need to adapt, just wait a couple more day till everyone get used to it.

[Winter]

Well, I chat a lot shipside. And I do talk to people in person. It's just a bummer that my pool of RP is more limited now. Of course, I'm a lot more chattery than most I guess.

I mean, I'll probably get used to it but shipside lowpop feels pretty dead nowadays.