Actual Balanced Marine Comm Nerf Discussion

[Skimmy2]

I am not sure if you are not reading the comments said here or you are just ignoring them at this point.

Then I shall make you be sure by saying, I am ignoring them.
Each of my responses are done so to ridicule.

[immaspaceninja]

You mean an SO?

Yes, basically a SO who is actually present on the ground and can see the situation for himself all the time, not by randomly jumping from camera to camera.

[CaptainYankee]

We have an SO that is perfectly capable of relaying information between squads, and why would any military relay orders over an unencrypted network that any UPP or colonist could get their hands on.

Typing takes much longer than speaking, so information going up to SOs, then down to another squad takes disproportionately longer in our 2d spessman game. Factor in opportunity cost of time spent talking to squads vs command and SO will soon become an extremely taxing role to play for 2-5 hours. I certainly have lost all interest in the role now.

IRL, Marines wouldn't be handed out chemicals that can near-instantly heal burn damage.

If such a thing did exist i would say that any military would go to great lengths to make this available for troops.

[getfreur]

People always hate to Obey the SL and i have proof of that because everytime i play as a SO, i need to send arresting orders for half the squad that ignore the SL and follow-up general comms to the middle of the fight, with this update the marines Will be forces to Obey the SL or they Will not receive information of the big pictures and that is the sole purpose of só many people hateing this update.

[Sulaboy]

Also, another problem with the nerf: general comms is vital to marines figuring out where to defend on the Almayer and learning where the dropship crash lands. This'll just keep the marines permanently confused and directionless after the ship is boarded, and make the endgame that much more of a one sided curbstomp.

The ship still has intercoms all over it, they can be used to relay information over the intercom.

[RobBrown4PM]

The ship still has intercoms all over it, they can be used to relay information over the intercom.

Once the DS hits it will more than likely break enough power connections to make i-coms useless.

[Sulaboy]

Once the DS hits it will more than likely break enough power connections to make i-coms useless.

Good telecoms would be down as well, during this total blackout you are not supposed to have information.

[Heckenshutze]

Well I as a permanent PFC player never use the general comms other than Screaming out the location of xenos, now we'll just have to relay to our squads channels, your best hope is not being in a squad full of baldies or rambos

[4thsurviver]

My preferred SO style was to only turn on my squad(s) comms on to make sure that I didn't miss anything they said like supplies for their next drop or prepping OB cords and if I needed to double check something it would be a faster to scroll through. I feel this update will force me to have to listen to all the channels and try to pick out the pieces that will be relevant to my squad and I'm afraid I'm going to miss something important like a smartgunner asking for a new powerpack or a medic asking for a marine's location.

People always hate to Obey the SL and i have proof of that because everytime i play as a SO, i need to send arresting orders for half the squad that ignore the SL and follow-up general comms to the middle of the fight, with this update the marines Will be forces to Obey the SL or they Will not receive information of the big pictures and that is the sole purpose of só many people hateing this update.

Thats a double edged sword though. SL is more important then ever but when they die or get injured finding a good ASL becomes even trickier. I normally have trouble finding good ASLs after the Spec dies, everyone else will claim to be too busy or a bad leader. Now they have even more responsibility thrust upon them on top of whatever their role was before.

[getfreur]

I normally put a medic and request to move the squad to the FOB.

[4thsurviver]

I normally put a medic and request to move the squad to the FOB.

I need to remember to get them moved off the line to the FOB next time, that's a good idea. medics however always fight me the hardest when I try to get them to take ASL so I go to engineers first.

[getfreur]

I Just Tell then to keep doing the good work, Just Tell people to rest, ressuply and protect the perimeter útil i find someone better, If he insist Just Tell him that It is a order and If he don't accept will be arrested for insubordination, they normally accept after that.

[DeLineFortune]

IRL, Marines wouldn't be handed out chemicals that can near-instantly heal burn damage.

IRL

near-instantly heal burn damage

Hello, it is 2186 year. Not 2018. Dont not compare our time and what will be after ~170 years.
And even now we can replace burned skin with synth skin (if it not 3b-4th stage, indeed), it can quickly cure burns.

IRL marines doctors can mix sodium carbonate and make awoooys acid almost useless.
(2NaHCO3 + H2SO4 --> Na2SO4 + 2CO2 + 2H2O, if i not mistaken)
IRL neurotoxin can not penetrate ALL (even space suits)
If we have IRL physical rules aliens can lose limbs

And other and other...

[WinterClould]

Telling marines to use command and their SO's to relay info is crippling. SO is already an extreamly taxing job. Now with even more work its even worse. God forbid its low pop and you only have 1 SO and an XO trying to work 2 squads each.

I also don't get where all this hate for general comms is coming from. It was fun in the morning to talk to people outside of your squad based meta cliches. Perhaps if the RO and other roles hated hearing all the PFC's talking to each other maybe we should make a radio channel on the ship thats only for Squad Leader and lower? Right now it's just Depressing and isolating to not be able to talk with everyone. Squad comms feels to quiet.

While this update hasn't made me want to stop playing, it has made me like playing a whole lot less. When you late join you can't find out whats happening because your squad is dead and the SO is SSD. When your on the ground you have no idea that Delta and Charlie just got wiped out by lizard because command isn't talking to anyone. It's a god damn mess even when people try to work around it with station bounced radio's it doesn't help.

[davidofmk771]

I think this has made the radio backpack a downright necessity. I think it's been mentioned enough that relying on command to disseminate information to the squad level just doesn't work. I think the removal of standards from general comms has certainly had a positive effect in some regards, the complete lack of inter-squad communications on the squad level is hopelessly crippled now. Nobody has any idea what anyone else is doing besides the initial orders and maybe some glancing comments from your SO if they're observant and reliable.

A simple backpack that spawns in the SL's vendor, to be doled out or kept to themselves much like the flamers, that has it's own channel dedicated solely to the wearers of the packs. Ideally it would operate similar to a station bounced radio, allowing anyone within view of the wearer to hear and speak on the general squad comms, or, more reasonably, like a headset, allowing only the wearer to communicate on the general squad comms. Something like that feels essential to enabling even basic multi-squad maneuvers to be carried out. I think it could even be better than having every boot clutter the planetside general comms with nonsense while people call out locations and wounded.

[CaptainYankee]

IRL
IRL marines doctors can mix sodium carbonate and make awoooys acid almost useless.
(2NaHCO3 + H2SO4 --> Na2SO4 + 2CO2 + 2H2O, if i not mistaken)

Here's a fun thought, acid-base neutralization is an exothermic reaction, the heat released just diluting H2S04 with only water can be enough to boil the acid. To neutralize an acid of the strength the xenomorphs possess would create incredible heat. Plus, the reaction rates for the above reacion scale with temperature, i.e. the reaction accelerates as long as reactants are present. If you were to neutralize a full sized xeno, it's fairly likely we'd see everyone in the room suffer severe burns to the skin and lungs. How do you get a xeno to hold still while you neutralize it? I don't know.

[Sulaboy]

Here's a fun thought, acid-base neutralization is an exothermic reaction, the heat released just diluting H2S04 with only water can be enough to boil the acid. To neutralize an acid of the strength the xenomorphs possess would create incredible heat. Plus, the reaction rates for the above reacion scale with temperature, i.e. the reaction accelerates as long as reactants are present. If you were to neutralize a full sized xeno, it's fairly likely we'd see everyone in the room suffer severe burns to the skin and lungs. How do you get a xeno to hold still while you neutralize it? I don't know.

Put a syringe gun into the game and make a new chem recipe that boils when combined with acid, it's for realisms sake.

[DeLineFortune]

Here's a fun thought, acid-base neutralization is an exothermic reaction, the heat released just diluting H2S04 with only water can be enough to boil the acid. To neutralize an acid of the strength the xenomorphs possess would create incredible heat. Plus, the reaction rates for the above reacion scale with temperature, i.e. the reaction accelerates as long as reactants are present. If you were to neutralize a full sized xeno, it's fairly likely we'd see everyone in the room suffer severe burns to the skin and lungs. How do you get a xeno to hold still while you neutralize it? I don't know.

If you were to neutralize a full sized xeno

Nah, not about xeno. About their magical ''acid vomit''

Im about situations, when xeno did weak acid vomit on your weapon/barricade/bag/vendor/wall and you can do nothing, because it UNREMOVABLE!

And we often fight outside (open area), nothing will happen if you neutralize a small amount of acid here

[spookydonut]

Injector tweak got rushed in ahead of medic slot increase because of a few days of PFCs packing stupid numbers of tricord and acting like medics, and medics helping them by giving them pill bottles and telling them what they are

[Chaznoodles]

This removes the ability for SLs to coordinate pushes with marines on the planet, and also cripples their ability to use their inititative. It promotes a lone wolf playstyle, as you can't talk to all the people you could, so why talk at all. FOB marines get bored and wander off/afk/ghost because they can't roleplay with the people in different squads further away.

[Rio]

Most everyone has already made the major points of why this change is bad, so I'm not going to repeat anything. Just that this is the newest and biggest change a long line in a series of decisions that is taking a pipe to the USCM's kneecaps, and crippling their abilities to operate effectively. Sure, we now have 3 engineers and 4 medics per squad, but engineers are still fighting over the same amount of resources as before, and the increase in med staff just means more bodies are piling up at the LZ and in medbay. Not to mention that once the server is on during the mid/lowpop hours, the Marines don't even see the benefits of these buffs. But everyone from the POs down most certainly feels the new lack of ability to communicate crippling their ability to work during any hour.

So far, the only counterpoint I've heard of anything resembling substance is "Muh realism". To which I reply "You're playing 2D spessmen based upon AVP universe in the late 22nd century". If that is the only thing you have to stand on as to why this change is necessary or justified, then you're standing on practically nothing.

[getfreur]

#SALTASFUCK

[Monoo]

IRL, Marines wouldn't be handed out chemicals that can near-instantly heal burn damage.

IRL, xenos wouldn't be able to lay down and take a nap to heal multiple explosive-tipped bullet wounds in a matter of seconds.

Fortunately for xeno players, though, xenos don't exist in real life.

Because this is a game, set in a fanciful depiction of the far future. Not real life, and certainly not the USMC as it is today. Spending 30 minutes in paincrit because a praetorian tagged you once with their spit is even less fun than not having a general comms channel.

Are any of the staff going to actually give a reason why they made these changes? Because otherwise this is turning out to be a pretty unproductive discussion thread. Last time, when we made a thread about the construction and squad engineer changes, Rahl replied within a few hours thanking us for the feedback and passing on some information about how the changes were just to add in the new barricades and other engineering goodies. Lo and behold, things were okay again. But this time we've just gotten some idle chatter about a DIFFERENT update to med items in the past and a handful of references to how things work "IRL." Very disappointing, if I'm to be totally honest.

[getfreur]

Add phonre for marines use to chitchat during duty and loot Boxes for phone skins, buying the phone is 2000 each.

[Bronimin]

Every update
Same players
always marine mains
complaining
which is why it is always ignored

they aren't getting any form of general comms
It was removed to improve clutter, game-play, squad-cohesion and make it more lore accurate.
we're trying to also reduce chat logs being generated
ss13 was never built to generate 200 players speaking on radio
with combat logs
most people cant even read chat
because of everything going on
this reduces clutter

give it a week
youll see some improvements
look at the big picture
rather than memeing and losing your shit
you guys act like anytime we put something out
it never gets updated
or improvements
you guys remember medical? // and pouches
a week later there was a shit ton
of updates
auto-doc
surgey fixes
we roll things out in waves

==============

As with any and all large updates we'll be listening to feedback and making changes as needed. I'm not going to say that there will be changes to radio chat or that there won't be because I don't know for sure yet.
It's been in for a few hours, give it some more time and I'll have an answer.

So the last 5 updates that have effected balance are the radio update, Squad Medic and Engineer count increase, lowered pain from burns for humans, Xeno pouncing exits stealth, and Xenos can no longer put things in disposal bins.
So if you consider the radio change a straight nerf, that's 1 marine nerf , 2 marine buffs, and 2 marine nerfs. So whoever says we only nerf marines and buff Xenos is objectively wrong.

===============

We expect that Marines will need a few dozen rounds to adapt anyways, but this is true of any major change
Right now people are still playing like they used to. Lost your squad ? No problems, just use Commo- ah damn
People are genuinely not trained to actually use their squad comms in some cases


Give it a week, guys.