PSA: Crushers aren’t in a good place.

[caleeb101]

I don't think this really fixes what's wrong with the Crusher: It has no real niche, and 'bullet sponge' alone isn't adequate (and even in this capacity I've seen them get dusted fast post-buff).

gotta disagree, they're decent now

[Toroic]

I don't think this really fixes what's wrong with the Crusher: It has no real niche, and 'bullet sponge' alone isn't adequate (and even in this capacity I've seen them get dusted fast post-buff).

I’m going to reserve judgement until I test, but I see a bunch of potential problems related to just buffing hp.

Namely, still just a meatshield and taking even longer to heal from low hp.

That said, raw hp helps mitigate ap and fire countering crushers, and the buff might be signficant enough.

In the short term though people are going to overestimate crushers as you’ll see more and testing by robust players. If they still can’t contribute as much as other castes those players will go back.

Hopefully this is the first step that will end with crushers being given more changes that make them more than a meatshield

[Surrealistik]

gotta disagree, they're decent now

So... what niche do they have?

[Weaselburg]

boilers don't since they just make holes which are basically useless
i know they can get ripped open but still

crushers can still break a wall in 1 charge if they get lucky

A t3 and maybe some t2s can open those holes and destroy the wall.

[Gnorse]

Crushers are dedicated to breaking walls and soaking bullets.
Don't think they need anything else, tbh. It's why you shouldn't see more than 1 Crusher at a time;

[MattAtlas]

Crushers are dedicated to breaking walls and soaking bullets.
Don't think they need anything else, tbh. It's why you shouldn't see more than 1 Crusher at a time;

A praetorian or boiler + any T3 is, ironically, faster at breaking walls. Boiler + any xeno is faster at breaking cades as well.

Meat shield is not a niche. Every xeno can already fulfill that, especially the Queen. If a boiler needs cover, any xeno can provide that, a crusher is not needed.

As for the buffs: they're decent I guess, but they don't really fix the crusher, in that everything that it does is done better by another caste. It needs something to call its own-- that used to be the AOE stun, but that is no more.

[Gnorse]

...
Meat shield is not a niche. Every xeno can already fulfill that, especially the Queen. If a boiler needs cover, any xeno can provide that, a crusher is not needed.
...
"Especially the queen"

There's your problem.
Crushers are bad because the queen can do everything they do but better.

[MattAtlas]

There's your problem.
Crushers are bad because the queen can do everything they do but better.

Centralization of the hive's power into the Queen is not a good thing. But I definitely agree that the Queen should be the toughest xenomorph, a final boss if you will.

Now, what if we remove the Queen charge and spit? It does not change anything for the crusher, unfortunately. Their wall breaking and 'cade breaking prowess is still bested by Boiler and Prae. MAYBE it gains some pushing utility, but that's not enough to make me consider a crusher more than a ravager, imo.

[Gnorse]

Centralization of the hive's power into the Queen is not a good thing. But I definitely agree that the Queen should be the toughest xenomorph, a final boss if you will.

Now, what if we remove the Queen charge and spit? It does not change anything for the crusher, unfortunately. Their wall breaking and 'cade breaking prowess is still bested by Boiler and Prae. MAYBE it gains some pushing utility, but that's not enough to make me consider a crusher more than a ravager, imo.

While yes, I agree that the queen SHOULD be a final boss, if you're making her that way, you should at least make it so that her death actually means something. Having a drone evolve into a queen 5 minutes after the old one died is pretty meh for a 'final boss'.

Back to the crusher : I Like to think that crushers are situational. They don't do well generally, but when given the proper location, they can shine.
Still think you shouldn't see more than 1 Crusher per hive. They need a buff, yes, but I don't think you can do much with a giant rhino-like xenomorph.

On that note, if Tanks/APCs are added, crushers could be made to counter them.

[MattAtlas]

While yes, I agree that the queen SHOULD be a final boss, if you're making her that way, you should at least make it so that her death actually means something. Having a drone evolve into a queen 5 minutes after the old one died is pretty meh for a 'final boss'.

Back to the crusher : I Like to think that crushers are situational. They don't do well generally, but when given the proper location, they can shine.
Still think you shouldn't see more than 1 Crusher per hive. They need a buff, yes, but I don't think you can do much with a giant rhino-like xenomorph.

On that note, if Tanks/APCs are added, crushers could be made to counter them.

Well, that's where the problem comes in. Removing drone > Queen evolution would be a huge, huge nerf and pretty much a round ender in case you get a bald Queen. So yeah, that's pretty hard to balance.

Crusher could finally have a niche if tanks get added, dunno. Still think they need something more, though i can't exactly describe what.

[KingPhilipIII]

I don't know. If we really want to make the Queen into a 'Final Boss' then we should buff her to a vast degree, severely limit her ability to sally forth whether it be through rules or through mechanics, and make her death be game ending.

It's unlikely, but if the Queen becomes a beast of horrifying strength and power, able to shrug off gunfire unharmed and cut down marines in single swipes(IE, be lore accurate) then raising the stakes would be fine because you're compensating for that.

[Surrealistik]

Crushers are dedicated to breaking walls and soaking bullets.
Don't think they need anything else, tbh. It's why you shouldn't see more than 1 Crusher at a time;

As many others have stated repeatedly, other xenos are better at dealing with obstacles and setting up flanks.

As to soaking bullets and taking a lot of damage, that's not a role, as others have also mentioned: you occupy and block 1 tile, you're not Reinhardt, you don't have a shield that allows you to effectively bodyblock for other Xenos, and you don't have an effective way to _force_ marines to fire at you instead of whatever it is you want to protect, or force them away (i.e. a 'peel'). In short, you have no way of acting as a proper tank by covering for the squisher xenos. The only time you can effectively leverage your ability to meatshield is when you're acting as cover for boilers immediately in front of them, and maybe the occasional prae, and even then, flamethrowers completely hard counter you, while also probably nailing whoever it is you're trying to protect.


Crushers aren't alone in not having a niche though; Ravagers are basically just worse Hunters.

[Reuben Owen]

Crushers aren't alone in not having a niche though; Ravagers are basically just worse Hunters.

Ravs are not worse Hunters, they have a niche.
My watered down description of their niche is, they're better/the best offensive caste excluding Queen on the frontlines, are delimb machines, and destroy barricades quicker/in fewer hits than any other caste. They are also immune to fire and recover quicker than most from grenades. Also they are immune to shotgun stun (which Hunters can only dream of).

[Surrealistik]

Ravs are not worse Hunters, they have a niche.
My watered down description of their niche is, they're better/the best offensive caste excluding Queen on the frontlines, are delimb machines, and destroy barricades quicker/in fewer hits than any other caste. They are also immune to fire and recover quicker than most from grenades. Also they are immune to shotgun stun (which Hunters can only dream of).

The problem is that Ravagers are too fragile to do anything but hit and run despite their immunities, so they're basically worse Hunters, especially since they're much less able to get out of trouble. Delimb, fire immunity, and stun resistance isn't worth losing vent crawling, speed, stealth, and pounce spam; compound that with the fact that their charge ability itself is extremely random in terms of results and far easier to dodge than pounce.

[Butlerblock]

Can confirm. Rav is pretty dogshit currently compared to hunters. There’s rarely a situation where you want a rav instead of a hunter. Delimb is pretty useless because if you’re put into a situation where you can delimb a marine you’re either just going to get chased down because you’re so close to marines, or the marine isn’t going to be revived anways.

[AverageSpitter]

Can confirm. Rav is pretty dogshit currently compared to hunters. There’s rarely a situation where you want a rav instead of a hunter. Delimb is pretty useless because if you’re put into a situation where you can delimb a marine you’re either just going to get chased down because you’re so close to marines, or the marine isn’t going to be revived anways.

Ravagers are pretty good if the ravager knows it's shit and the environment is favorable. I was a ravager on prison station (best map to play ravager IMO) and delimbed the pyro spec like 10 minutes after deployment, Prison station narrow halls make ravager a very good choice. On the other hand LV is the worst map to play ravager as there are LOTS of open spaces. Getting up from stuns faster is also very useful.

[caleeb101]

A praetorian or boiler + any T3 is, ironically, faster at breaking walls. Boiler + any xeno is faster at breaking cades as well.

Meat shield is not a niche. Every xeno can already fulfill that, especially the Queen. If a boiler needs cover, any xeno can provide that, a crusher is not needed.

As for the buffs: they're decent I guess, but they don't really fix the crusher, in that everything that it does is done better by another caste. It needs something to call its own-- that used to be the AOE stun, but that is no more.

A crusher+boiler team can do it faster/better if they know what they're doing. And they also won't have to retreat within two seconds before death if the fog clears and marines catch them breaking a barricade. Plus, in gas they are basically immune to fire for the first few seconds since you physically can't flamethrow into what you can't see so that's one weakness ticked off. Even a crusher on it's own can do it fairly quickly with a few charges.

Ravagers are paper thin so they're not the best at breaking cades though it's true a few hits will do it.

Praetorians feel awfully squishy and slow. One smartgunner and a few clicks from standards can put it down especially if they lost a bit of HP from hitting a cade. Spitting at a barricade takes several years.

Boilers take ages alone.

On the wall situation though, yeah basically every other T3 except ravagers are more capable of breaking walls. Hell, even Spitters and they're a T2. But at least you can break the wall and fuck people up with a charge if you line it up right.

[caleeb101]

Update:

Can confirm I love the new crusher. Got to Elite today and I just wrecked ship.

[biscuitsakimbo]

Crushers just got another bump, Ravs as well. Marines not having access to QF, which was the best attachment for putting consistent AP onto a T3 that got stuck in a bad situation, is now gone.

[Surrealistik]

Crushers just got another bump, Ravs as well. Marines not having access to QF, which was the best attachment for putting consistent AP onto a T3 that got stuck in a bad situation, is now gone.

RDS + Suppressor + BFA

Dual Gyros

[zoboomafoo]

I still think charge should be faster so they can hit people more consistently. It is still pretty easy to casually stroll out of the way, unless you get body blocked.

[Loco52]

I still think charge should be faster so they can hit people more consistently. It is still pretty easy to casually stroll out of the way, unless you get body blocked.

Yeh, crusher charge still way too slow.

I've been through entire rounds in which I wasn't able to land a single ram and so most of my kills in those cases were tackle + stomp/pull + slash

[spheretech]

Crushers are one of the more balanced castes right now, and if anything, have a bit too much health. You can nearly instakill someone every fucking single time you WALK into them. Do you know how many times a marine must hit an alien to kill them? Xeno players are spoiled...

[digitalattack]

Crushers are one of the more balanced castes right now, and if anything, have a bit too much health. You can nearly instakill someone every fucking single time you WALK into them. Do you know how many times a marine must hit an alien to kill them? Xeno players are spoiled...

Roughly between three to five shot's with a M41A to put them in crit depends on the xeno tier,upgrade and if your using AP or not, crushers are the sole "Tanky" xeno.

[Bronimin]

Yeh, crusher charge still way too slow.

I've been through entire rounds in which I wasn't able to land a single ram and so most of my kills in those cases were tackle + stomp/pull + slash

My dude just ask the queen to give you frenzy pheremones -- Your charge speed triples, it's honestly pretty dumb.