Lastest CLF vs Aliens vs USCM round + Admin railroading

[ColdSuit]

Yeah, neither side of the event is mindless.

[Jonesome]

Here's my view on this:

1. You're the god damn colonial marines. You do not negotiate with terrorists or insurgents. Ground forces MIGHT ignore shooting at CLF when engaging Xenos, but not for longer after. Remember, the CLF are TERRORISTS who have been killing the Colonial Marines for years. You wouldn't expect a group of Army soldiers to suddenly negotiate with Al Queda and forget about all the past murdering, kidnapping, and bombings. Not gonna happen. The commander was executed as a traitor (at the request of several of the Almayer's command staff via Fax).

Actually in real life the USA has negotiated with terrorists extensively.

[Swagile]

Your greatest ally is a enemy that has everything to prove in a time of crisis.

History is RIFE with times when the greatest of enemies became the greatest allies, while the greatest friends / allies became the greatest enemies.

Look at the Chinese Warring States periods for NUMEROUS examples of this in REAL LIFE.

To think that HUMANS would not ally with even their worst enemies against a greater enemy would be a misconception of the greatest level and a lack of basic history and knowledge of human nature.

[RobBrown4PM]

If you want to get in to the subject of enemies turning allies, during great times of strife just look through out history. One of the better examples would be the Chinese Nationalists, Peoples Republic, and the various Warlord states all putting their hatred aside (Yes, I know this is overly simplified) to fight the Japanese. They immediately went back to fighting each other once the larger threat had been extinguished.

[Martzin]

Dont see any problem with CLF and USCMC teaming up to fight a much more bigger threat than each-other. Doesnt mean they'll stay friends but when they see something like xenomorphs they'd team up regardless. Seems like a wasted opportunity for the players, they couldve had fun with this.

[Sambalu]

Humans allying with eachother to fight the alien threat makes sense, but afterwards they should resume fighting eachother. Without conflict, essentially every combat role would have nothing to do. While the RP that could arise might be fun for a few people, PFC Crewcut McBalderson would probably be extremely bored by that.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

In a bastardisation, I think this sums up what Apop said.

[Royal Griffon]

I mean humans are humans, when a common enemy places itself and poses a threat to humans in general, humans aren't gonna kill one another unless told too
Then again, we're talking about an age old grudge match basically so some incidents of firing on one another will occur but the bigger threat will always be an issue
(For example the Taliban and the U.S. fighting with the USSR in Afghanistan and Iraq, and today us being the greatest enemies)

[Xango]

I think the moral of the story is, try not to have fun guys becuase the admongs don't like it when people make their own decisions

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Yes, this is a dictatorship, no fun permitted.You are expendable, you better feel expendable or they will make you feel so expendable you will know nothing else.You are nothing, you are lesser than dirt.

[Meatshield]

You are nothing, you are lesser than dirt.

the admongs don't like it when people make their own decisions

Are you guys serious?

[Xango]

Are you guys serious?

Did you even read the discuission before? Sure we're exaggerating a little bit but it is true at least for this case. It could've been an extremely fun event but admongs still intervened and ruined it all

[OatzAndHoes]

This has been an issue with events for awhile IMO. Hell one time I remember leading a flank of marines in a HvH round only for the flank to get cut off by indestructible walls put up in front of my eyes. As soon as an event begins it feels like creativity is immediately suppressed if it doesn't fit within the admins narrow vision for the round. The best part of ss13 is player interactions creating a story, not admin forced stories.

Also the Hezbollah-israel example doesn't work because there are a lot of religious motivations in there that aren't present in the USCM-CLF conflict. Also Russia isn't a race of aliens which threaten the existence of humanity as a species.

[WinterClould]

Also Russia isn't a race of aliens which threaten the existence of humanity as a species.

I remain unconvinced.

[OatzAndHoes]

I remain unconvinced.

[Meatshield]

This has been an issue with events for awhile IMO. Hell one time I remember leading a flank of marines in a HvH round only for the flank to get cut off by indestructible walls put up in front of my eyes. As soon as an event begins it feels like creativity is immediately suppressed if it doesn't fit within the admins narrow vision for the round. The best part of ss13 is player interactions creating a story, not admin forced stories.

Also the Hezbollah-israel example doesn't work because there are a lot of religious motivations in there that aren't present in the USCM-CLF conflict. Also Russia isn't a race of aliens which threaten the existence of humanity as a species.

I'm sorry, but if you were a member of a group whose mission was to destroy western capitalism, say the USSR locked in a perpetual third world war with USA, and somehow you found yourself on a crippled American aircraft carrier infested with zombies. I don't think your first thought would be "well, better make contact with Robert B. Abrams, and make sure this aircraft carrier makes it back to Virginia alright". It would be "thank fuck the zombies are attacking, the Americans can't arrest me now, and I could probably find a way to blow up the entire ship, striking a blow against the enemies that have killed hundreds if not thousands of my comrades, and perhaps escape with my life".

[OatzAndHoes]

I'm sorry, but if you were a member of a group whose mission was to destroy western capitalism, say the USSR locked in a perpetual third world war with USA, and somehow you found yourself on a crippled American aircraft carrier infested with zombies. I don't think your first thought would be "well, better make contact with Robert B. Abrams, and make sure this aircraft carrier makes it back to Virginia alright". It would be "thank fuck the zombies are attacking, the Americans can't arrest me now, and I could probably find a way to blow up the entire ship, striking a blow against the enemies that have killed hundreds if not thousands of my comrades, and perhaps escape with my life".

There are more examples of humans cooperating in situations like this than fighting.

For exampled during ww1 Germans and Russians signed a truce to hunt down and kill packs of starved giant wolves that had been attacking and killing people on the front. This was in 1917 mind you, after 3 years of brutal warfare during one of the coldest winters in history the two sides still managed to put differences aside and fight a common enemy. Most soldiers value their own survival and the survival of their comrades over getting a kill count.
http://breakingitdown.co.uk/nature/anim ... rld-war-1/

[WinterClould]

It's very important to remember as well, it isn't high command signing a peace with the CLF just to fight some lizards. This is a single platoon just making a verbal truce with a small element of clf to kill some killer bugs that are straight out of your nightmares and kicking everyone's asses.

Understand able that HQ would have less then good feelings on this, but the ships Command could totally find this reasonable since they're actually seeing what's happening. The troops themselves even more so should see what's going on and see clearly they need to chill for a moment and just kill bugs. No need to trust each other, but the guns need to be pointed at the lizards not each other for a second here.

[DON_ARMAGEDON]

Here's my view on this:


2. You're the CLF. You are literally against EVERYTHING the USCM stands for. They are such an oppressive force that you TOOK UP ARMS against them. You wouldn't just throw them down immediately because there's another enemy nearby. That would be like Hezbolla allying with Israel because Russia was nearby. It might happen for an individual battle, but not on any major scale, and definitely not command authorized. Same with the Aliens. These aliens killed your friends, family, and all the colonists on the planet. You do not want to negotiate with them.



What I expect happened, is that the staff running the event probably did not expect a Synth to abuse their language mechanic in the way they did (it is intended to translate human languages but because of how SS13 works, it unrealistically does Xenos as well), and they probably didn't expect the aliens to go along with it. As a result, they tried to return the situation to the intended path of the event and it wasn't as successful as it should have been.

You might ask as well "If that stuff is how it's supposed to be, why aren't there rules". Bottom line is: We can't make rules for EVERY possible situation, people need to use COMMON SENSE and follow the existing rules and Guidelines.

But Hezbolla is supported by Russia and approved by goverment, they have authority to be inside Russia. I mean eaven now Russia give to Hezbolla trained men and wearpons.

[Jeser]

Huh, by Apop's logic applying COMMON SENSE means literally teaming up based on RACE in the mentioned event and not fighting on two fronts, when one of enemy are just terrorists, even if long-enemies and other one is alien monsters easily ripping people's head off and reproducing by raping them.

The only player in wrong was Synth negotiating with aliens, imho.