Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

[solidfury7]

except mines and off screen non-dodgable stuns

> Resin holes

> Queen screech and about 4 other types of RIP Stuns.

There is nothing wrong with accepting one side being a bit broken here and there. I do it a lot with the marines (such as mentioning the dumb 3x M56d meme in SD)

[WinterClould]

Claymores are really hard to hide now in days and rarely effective unless used by a pro. Resin holes are easily hid and in constant supply with a consistently effective effect.

Marines only off screen stuns are the scout specs impact rounds, which last for a millisecond, and the tank canon which is a rough one for both sides to work with and fight against but given that it's the only thing of its kind marines have, eh, I can't bring myself to feel bad about it since it cant kill aged xenos on its own most of the time.

Meanwhile benos can stun you six ways to Sunday with everything they've got from every other caste. Some of it makes sense and is totally cool. Sents and spitters, boiler gasses, most xeno disarms and queen screech. But then they get things like zero counter warrior grabs, prae shotguns, disarm spam into vore. That's when it gets fucky for me and I start wondering what's up with this nonsense.

[caleeb101]

I've been fucked so much by the warrior grab, I don't even care anymore tbh lmao. Just gotta accept your round is over, same way you accept your round is over when you get gassed by the boiler, screeched and are the nearest target to the queen, stomped by a crusher, stunned and devoured by a spitter, pounced by a lurker etc etc. Even if it feels scummy as fuck and you so BADLY want to grab your mag harnessed shotgun and BLAST THAT MOTHERFUCKER FIVE WAYS TO SUNDAY.

[RedsPro]

Warriors need to be removed. Good idea horrible in gameplay. They're not fun to play against. Full stop. Actually remove them.

[Gnorse]

I've been fucked so much by the warrior grab, I don't even care anymore tbh lmao.

This.
I've started to just treat the game as a team deathmatch and trying to get as many kills as I can.

[Gray]

I've been fucked so much by the warrior grab, I don't even care anymore tbh lmao. Just gotta accept your round is over, same way you accept your round is over when you get gassed by the boiler, screeched and are the nearest target to the queen, stomped by a crusher, stunned and devoured by a spitter, pounced by a lurker etc etc. Even if it feels scummy as fuck and you so BADLY want to grab your mag harnessed shotgun and BLAST THAT MOTHERFUCKER FIVE WAYS TO SUNDAY.

Every other scenario you just mentioned either runs out after a while (acid and screech is just a short stun),is just a lot of damage (crusher) or has a success failure chance determind by RNG (spitter/lurker pounce). However, with warrior grabs you are completely left unable to do anything. Completely immobilized permanently. Your agency and control over your character is taken away from you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're left to rely on your teammates who at the nearest opportunity would rather friendly fire you than go up and pull you. Better yet if a warrior is in a pack of Xenos that will cover his retreat once he grabs a marine. It's completely frustrating and removes any element of fun in fighting Xenos. With lurkers, queens, spitters etc you can at least say it was a good fight and you landed a good hits. A warrior? you're done.

[caleeb101]

Every other scenario you just mentioned either runs out after a while (acid and screech is just a short stun),is just a lot of damage (crusher) or has a success failure chance determind by RNG (spitter/lurker pounce). However, with warrior grabs you are completely left unable to do anything. Completely immobilized permanently. Your agency and control over your character is taken away from you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're left to rely on your teammates who at the nearest opportunity would rather friendly fire you than go up and pull you. Better yet if a warrior is in a pack of Xenos that will cover his retreat once he grabs a marine. It's completely frustrating and removes any element of fun in fighting Xenos. With lurkers, queens, spitters etc you can at least say it was a good fight and you landed a good hits. A warrior? you're done.

My point still stands. I'm at the point where I don't even give a fuck about warrior grabs. They're just a pain.

[Casany]

Every other scenario you just mentioned either runs out after a while (acid and screech is just a short stun),is just a lot of damage (crusher) or has a success failure chance determind by RNG (spitter/lurker pounce). However, with warrior grabs you are completely left unable to do anything. Completely immobilized permanently. Your agency and control over your character is taken away from you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You're left to rely on your teammates who at the nearest opportunity would rather friendly fire you than go up and pull you. Better yet if a warrior is in a pack of Xenos that will cover his retreat once he grabs a marine. It's completely frustrating and removes any element of fun in fighting Xenos. With lurkers, queens, spitters etc you can at least say it was a good fight and you landed a good hits. A warrior? you're done.

Hit the nail on the head man.

Every time I get taken out by a runner or Lurker or crusher it always feels like a fair fight, in terms of CM. While they do have a lot of stuns, the majority are RNG based, which means you still have a chance to fight back and win. With warrior grabs there’s none of that. No RNG chance to escape or RNG chance for it to miss. It’s literally one click most of the time and you’re dead.

At least make it like a spitter neuro where there’s a chance for it to miss it’s lunge, or a chance for someone to escape. Don’t keep it as is. And I hate people saying the counter is to countergrab like it’s some ultimate counter. It’s not. It helps but a competent warrior will just grab the countergrabber and slash him, and get both of them down, or they’ll drag the person over other sprites which makes clicking on the exact person hell. It’s so much fucking easier to just shoot the marine to death, shoot the warrior until it runs away and drag the marine to get deffibed.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

It’s so much fucking easier to just shoot the marine to death, shoot the warrior until it runs away and drag the marine to get deffibed.

Whilst probably true in most cases, also leads to more FF.

Good stuff...

[Casany]

Also, how does Warrior grab affect predators? Are they just fucked when grabbed or can they get out of it?

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Also, how does Warrior grab affect predators? Are they just fucked when grabbed or can they get out of it?

When Warrior first launched, one grab means dead pred. It's been fixed so that the grab doesn't get automatically upgraded to neckgrab, so the Warrior will have to slowly upgrade it. Also it can no longer break pred's limb with punch

[TheMaskedMan2]

After Prae spray got nerfed Praetorians are a bit meh now. I feel like they should have a longer range spit or more slash damage, it evolves from Warrior after all.

Anyways as for Warrior lunge, i'm going to be honest, I have zero idea how to fix that. I know the easy fix people say is "force marines to lay down" but in that case it will actually be useless.

Anyways as for balance, devs are always working on balance and patience is a virtue. SoonTM

[Casany]

After Prae spray got nerfed Praetorians are a bit meh now. I feel like they should have a longer range spit or more slash damage, it evolves from Warrior after all.

Anyways as for Warrior lunge, i'm going to be honest, I have zero idea how to fix that. I know the easy fix people say is "force marines to lay down" but in that case it will actually be useless.

Well, warriors can still slash and kill a grabbed marine. The grab will still be as useful, as it’ll still take down a marine no matter the health and allow xenos to get hits on him, and if the xeno is backed up nothing would really change.

As to the prea thing, I still think they’re a bit powerful. Not super OP, I’m personally fine with them as is. Good shock unit to put a full stop to marine pushes in small spaces. More slash damage would just make people more upset, longer range would be way to powerful.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Well, warriors can still slash and kill a grabbed marine. The grab will still be as useful, as it’ll still take down a marine no matter the health and allow xenos to get hits on him, and if the xeno is backed up nothing would really change.

As to the prea thing, I still think they’re a bit powerful. Not super OP, I’m personally fine with them as is. Good shock unit to put a full stop to marine pushes in small spaces. More slash damage would just make people more upset, longer range would be way to powerful.

Maybe Warrior will work, I don’t know. I just feel there has to be a better way.

As for Prae though, i’m not saying they’re weak, but I think they are mediocre for a T3 right now. Spray nerf was fine, but I think it was carrying them and what’s left behind is a bit mediocre. Spray is fine as is, it’s strategic now, but the acid on the floor does not last nearly as long as say fire.

I really do think acid spit could use a range increase, currently it is literally only 2 tiles, and it’s not even that accurate. I’m not saying it should be like a spitter snipe, but 1-2 more tiles would make it at least usable.

That’s just my opinion though I suppose.

[Casany]

Maybe Warrior will work, I don’t know. I just feel there has to be a better way.

As for Prae though, i’m not saying they’re weak, but I think they are mediocre for a T3 right now. Spray nerf was fine, but I think it was carrying them and what’s left behind is a bit mediocre. Spray is fine as is, it’s strategic now, but the acid on the floor does not last nearly as long as say fire.

I really do think acid spit could use a range increase, currently it is literally only 2 tiles, and it’s not even that accurate. I’m not saying it should be like a spitter snipe, but 1-2 more tiles would make it at least usable.

That’s just my opinion though I suppose.

The prea spray goes three tiles. And stuns whenever someone walks into it. I don't think it should last longer because unlike fire it stuns people. I'd rather not have it go 5 tiles, because it goes in a cone and so it'd just cover so much more ground and be able to get entire squads in one spray if that was the case.

[TheMaskedMan2]

The prea spray goes three tiles. And stuns whenever someone walks into it. I don't think it should last longer because unlike fire it stuns people. I'd rather not have it go 5 tiles, because it goes in a cone and so it'd just cover so much more ground and be able to get entire squads in one spray if that was the case.

I’m asking for spit to have a range increase, not spray. As in spitter spit. It’s currently only 2 tiles.

[Casany]

I’m asking for spit to have a range increase, not spray. As in spitter spit. It’s currently only 2 tiles.

OOF! Yeah, sorry, misunderstood you. I can agree with that

[TheMaskedMan2]

All good, but yeah I would be much more satisfied with Prae if the spit was a bit longer.

ALSO. I thought about Warrior some more and I realized that part of the grab memes is that even though you can break out, by the time you do the cooldown is over and they can grab again. I think if the cooldown didn’t start ticking until they let go, it would already be improved a lot more.

Not perfect, but better.

[Casany]

All good, but yeah I would be much more satisfied with Prae if the spit was a bit longer.

ALSO. I thought about Warrior some more and I realized that part of the grab memes is that even though you can break out, by the time you do the cooldown is over and they can grab again. I think if the cooldown didn’t start ticking until they let go, it would already be improved a lot more.

Not perfect, but better.

Wait you can break out? Never knew that. In fact, never had the chance to

[TheMaskedMan2]

Yeah you can, I believe it’s just spamming the movement keys, you can definitely break out, I don’t know the chances though.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Yeah you can, I believe it’s just spamming the movement keys, you can definitely break out, I don’t know the chances though.

The first 3 seconds of stun (meaning about 4 slashes from the Warrior) prevent you from doing anything (not resist, not move with movement keys). After that, you can attempt to break out with resist (haven't tried movement keys yet), but you'd already have taken 4-5 slashes, maybe a few ff shots. Basically, while in theory you can break out, in practice you can't

[RobBrown4PM]

The counter to prae spray is to stay out of it's arch and it's range, simple as that. As for Warriors, I agree.

[WinterClould]

The counter to prae spray is to stay out of it's arch and it's range, simple as that. As for Warriors, I agree.

I'd the prae still broken with sonic speed though? Because unless they fixed that it can still speed demon up to you shotgun then run away.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

I'd the prae still broken with sonic speed though? Because unless they fixed that it can still speed demon up to you shotgun then run away.

They slow down to turtle levels of speed after a spray. They went from something to be spooked by to just ' another meh t3 easiler blapped'

[TheMaskedMan2]

Here is a thought about Warriors I just thought of. What about just don't let Warriors slash while they have someone grabbed? It's a rather simple but effective nerf. Warriors can no longer rack up easy guaranteed damage on people they grabbed, they will have to rip limbs off. Sure they will still be a pain in the ass, but I think this will impact quite a lot, actually.

Also yes Prae just needs the normal spit range increase, change my mind.