This became a grey area ever since the descriptio nfor Warrant Officer was changed with the "effective rank of LCDR" bit. It's been made more clear and changed to the way it used to be. MPs are not sovereign, they're still marines and must respect the CoC. However, they're not the SO's toys and don't have to follow their orders in matters related to Marine Law. Demotions are an iffy issue and the system is not great, but that is also partially due to the mechanics being wonky, so it's probably best to keep it a simple as possible.Roland410 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 03:17I think the WO having to follow the SO's orders should be changed, it often resulted before them thinking MPs are their little toys. Before the update this was usually not such a huge problem, because most of the time they backed off when they got told off, but now the rules clearly say they have to answer to the CO, XO AND SO's. Since we are working on this currently, it might be worth revisiting the demotion part though, it often would be better to be able to demote someone to private and boot them off the ship than putting say an RO back to their department as a CT where they can fuck stuff up once again. Otherwise seems solid so far.
IMVader wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 07:44Improper Equipment Usage no longer requires a warning, so MPs can simply go collecting the weapons of unsuspecting boots, which is a very loved form of soft grief. And since there's nothing regarding when to apply minimum and maximum punishment? They can actually give them 15 minutes of brig time. Probably more, since the average new player is likely to react badly to it. All within the law and rules.
Minimum sentence has been changed. You don't need to have your weapons out in briefing though and MPs should decide whether to apply minimum or maximum depending on the circumstances of the crime and what other crimes have been committed.NoahKirchner wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 04:02Confiscation for improper equipment usage seems a bit much, especially considering that it's to be given WITH a warning. I'd much rather that come after the warning so new players don't get memed by it. It's also very vague and the name really doesn't match the description. Having a weapon out in briefing isn't necessarily improper, and I'm more concerned that other things could get lumped into that which are unintended.
-Standard equipment is all equipment issued by the USCM, so everything found in vendors, lockers and req plus anything people spawn with.NoahKirchner wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 04:02Contraband requires a list of standardized equipment.
Sedition is a bit vague, since to damage government property hurts the USCM, I think it should be more of an intent to overthrow the command structure of the ship personally.
-Sedition has been changed to express the intent to overthrow command or act as an enemy.
Bear in mind the objective of this rework is to simplify Marine Law.NoahKirchner wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 04:02I think an SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is desperately required as a seperate document for MPs, having it around would give laws context for when they are and aren't enforced, like trespassing on code red is an extreme example. It would also allow for a bit more RP since the more there is to talk about the more there is to talk about.
Another thing to do, just as a QOL, would be to separate the different crimes by severity and then give them numbers, so for example.
Theft is a low level crime, so next to its description you would have A001, just below it you'd have hooliganism with would be A002. For the medium severity crimes you'd have assault as B001, and just under it insubordination which would be B002.
This would allow clauses like "Low severity crimes (Or whatever term you come up with) can be ignored by an MP and the punishment substituted for a warning, and would also neatly organize the wiki page for marine law by severity as opposed to as the document is, which is largely unorganized. To see a good example of the idea I'm trying to convey here, I think https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.ph ... egulations Aurora does this really well with their corporate regulations, and it's what I'm trying to model here because it's very efficient, neat, and allows the MPs to speak easier.
Crimes are already organised by sentence though perhaps splitting it into sections would make it visually more appealing. Crimes you're meant to be able to be warned for already have warning as minimum sentence, however.
Right, disclaimer time I suppose. Since you ask for my opinion, I'll give it but bear in mind this opinion is entirely my own as an Admin, and while it may express the intent with which I wrote the text (and I didn't write all of it), Rahlzel is the one in charge of marine law and my opinion holds no more weight than any other Admin's. This applies to everything I've said in these responses that isn't factual information about changes to the draft.awan wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 05:47So, here are the things I have been asked in the past and would love your opinion on aswell sir.
1. Do normal executions have to be in the execution room?
2. Do mps have to give a radio for execution last words. Or can it only be given if the prisoner request it on their own.
3. Does a prisoner get to pick if they appeal to the cmp or co? Or is this upto the CO and CMP?
4. Are you sure you want to make the demotion turned into termination only on high command approval?
We wanted less staff intervention to begin with. This increases it.
You are letting the Commander kill people without getting approval beforehand. And the aCO +CMP can do the same.
Can this be inform high command instead? It gives players more freedom and still lets staff intervene if it gets out of hand.
5. Can a synth be murdered? Or is this just destruction of government property?
6. And include a clause saying that marine law only protects neutral or friendlies (to the USCM). Shooting at a hostile upp is not murder ofc. Neither is killing an openly hostile survivor. Killing a friendly one would be though.
1. No.
2. If their radio was removed for abuse, the MPs are not obligated by procedure to restore it unless the prisoner requests it, in which case they must give him a radio.
3. Up to the aCO and CMP. Bear in mind the CMP can override the CO regardless.
4. Changed.
5. Yes. Murder has been changed to reflect this.
6. Covered under Self-Defense provision.
Changed. Now you may only apply one punishment per event, so fighting in the RO line would be either Disorderly Conduct or Assault, and the arresting MP decides which to apply. Insubordination's punishment is still per offense, so if you insult a superior five times you get five times the sentence.Dothal wrote: ↑19 Jun 2018, 14:34I'm not sure if I like the idea of no more charge stacking, especially since it means that if a person has done a crime worse than resisting arrest, they now have no reason to comply with MPs, since at worst they get caught and sentenced to what they would've originally been sentenced to. IMO the no charge stacking shouldn't apply to resisting arrest or disrespect to a superior officer (Now under insubordination), just to make sure theres a punishment for cutting and running or calling the MPs bad names over and over.
