Update Discussion Thread (August 2018)

[TopHatPenguin]

Both teams have tactical maps now with wiki sections for each:

Marines:
wiki/Staff_Officer#Tactical_Map


Aliens
wiki/Queen#Alien_Tactical_Map

Have fun discussing

[Wubs4Scrubs]

CM is getting closer and closer to a mass scale version of natural selection.

And I couldn't be happier.

[NethIafins]

Latest changelog:

Allow newjoins who go observer not have a xeno respawn cooldown
The random name generator generate single word name
A typo in NANOPASTE!
Increasing the time it takes to remove armour, but allowing slow movement while doing so, and also adding a text notice of when someone is removing armour
[Bug] Making a Grab object
Remove 5 minute cooldown when you enter a game as observer
[BUG] Synthetics can be knocked out
#Bug Operating Tables Spawn Infinite Masks

[Herac]

I doubt I'll get to try out these updates any time soon but I have to say I'm genuinely impressed. I never imagined anything like this would ever exist on SS13.

Having not experianced it directly I'm unsure what the effect would be, plus somoene has probably already thought of this, but it would be nice if queen's tac map showed leaders.

[Casany]

Both teams have tactical maps now with wiki sections for each:

Marines:
wiki/Staff_Officer#Tactical_Map


Aliens
wiki/Queen#Alien_Tactical_Map

Have fun discussing

Also, penguin, with the removal of OBs and SBs I’d recommend that you change the pages to talk about the coordinates not the beacons

[TopHatPenguin]

Also, penguin, with the removal of OBs and SBs I’d recommend that you change the pages to talk about the coordinates not the beacons

That's on the list of edits to be done.

[Gnorse]

Command & Conquer in MY CM ?!

[spookydonut]

Beacons might be re-added, we're trying without them for now.

[Grubstank]

I hope beacons stay away! The new system works so much better!!!

[CABAL]

Command & Conquer in MY CM ?!

I bet your ass it is. In the name of KANE!

[Karmac]

my personal opinion on shotguns is the stun from slugs is the only thing xenos should be complaining about, faster reload times for the shotgun now makes it way easier to use it like a rifle that stuns

buckshot is still in that 'king of CQC' corner if you can figure out how to use it properly, as it always has been, which is the entire point of a shotgun

[Steelpoint]

I personally see Slug rounds as a more support oriented attack. Someone using Slugs is likely aiming not to kill but to suppress Xenos or save Marines. The longer ranged stun grants the slug round good utility in that it grants duel benefits.

The first being that its stun ability can often save a Marine's life when they are being dragged away, a quick slug stun can grant the Marine a chance to escape.

The second being the stun can, in the right circumstances, lock down a xeno and allow other Marines to capitalize on it and kill the Xeno. This is harder since it requires a combination of good terrain and good Marines to capitalize on the stuns.

[Herac]

When warriors/defenders were new slugs became the new meta and you saw a lot more cases of one marine slugging a xeno and 4 or 5 other marines gunning them down. I haven't seen it in awhile tbh, I can perfectly understand why people would rather be able to solo using buckshot than rely on their teammates.

Anyway on topic, in light of this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=18271

I'm also going to go ahead and say that I'm not a fan of the new xeno changes overall, increasing roundstart xenos doesn't do much to balance out individual xeno squishiness really puts me off playing them and from the rounds I've played as a marine (which hasn't been that many recently, admittedly) it just feels too easy.

I can understand why you'd want to make xenos work harder for their captures though, since between wield delay and lights out for infected it is a lot more punishing.

[Karmac]

it's strange to see people thinking marines should be harder to win as after hearing about a single warrior killing over 20 people earlier today

when nerfs like this come out, the actually skilled xeno players really do shine through

[Blade2000Br]

I prefer a hard fought battle than a handout easy win.

[Karmac]

win rates shouldn't be entirely reliant on buffs and nerfs, it'd be worth letting players work out problems on their own sometimes, is more or less what I'm getting at

[solidfury7]

win rates shouldn't be entirely reliant on buffs and nerfs, it'd be worth letting players work out problems on their own sometimes, is more or less what I'm getting at

The only issue with that is, if you make it too easy for one or two people to carry the game, it promotes a gameplay style that we are not looking for.

We would rather have the game being a team effort where you can still make an impact but you're not going to win the game alone unless you do some real wizardry.

I can get where you're coming from though, nothing is more satisfying than getting good at a role and making a difference.

[Casany]

I can see the issue.

Devs have made xeno play a bit harder, and now players are seeing how much of an effect the xeno brain drain has done to their side overall. The skilled ones stick out way more and the ones who didn’t need to be skilled because everything was working for them now have to make themselves skilled or quit.

The issue is now you have to find a way to increase the skill ceiling without having half the xeno team just straight up leave, and since you’ve babied them for so long that’s gonna be very hard. If you give a baby some candy and take it away right after it’s gonna cry, same thing here. You gave the xenos so much that required no to little skill and now that those are going away they’re angry.

[Recounted]

These xeno changes are hurting them more than balancing the game out. Now we got marines beating the shit out of xenos more often now with little leeway out of certain situations

[ThePiachu]

Recently tried how the CL plays after the goodies adjustment:

- Smaller pill count feel fine - since the bottle requires CL to be dealing those out, you don't want to be handing those out like candy anymore
- Lower point limit on the briefcase is understandable, although if you don't want points going to waste, you will have to check up on the briefcase more often
- Feels like Ultrazine got nerfed? Can't say I agree with this one - it's still a drug with bad side-effects, so seeing it go the way of Hyperzine is a bit eh... Now with lower pill count and lower usefulness it doesn't seem worth it...

So overall, not too bad. Would still like to see Ultrazine be more useful to make it worth it now that the pills are so few and far between. Having some more goodies or use for large stacks of money would also be neat...

[spookydonut]

Skill ceiling is fine, look at sailor Dave for proof of that

[solidfury7]

I've seen a huge difference with the Hive.

Tackles RNG is way too low.

Certain castes are being shunned because they're not viable, runners, lurker and crushers are really not in the best position currently.

Drones are making a comeback, which as a drone player. I enjoy.

Buckshot damage is a little to high currently, especially due to marines using dual shotgun without armour.

Spitting out marines during devour should give an audio sound, I've spat marines out before and not noticed properly.

MP armour should have a speed buff, marines are just stripping armour to escape.

Rifle needs a slight buff and a shotgun a slight rework on certain stats.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Tackles RNG is way too low.

Certain castes are being shunned because they're not viable, runners, lurker and crushers are really not in the best position currently.

Drones are making a comeback, which as a drone player. I enjoy.

Buckshot damage is a little to high currently, especially due to marines using dual shotgun without armour.

Spitting out marines during devour should give an audio sound, I've spat marines out before and not noticed properly.

MP armour should have a speed buff, marines are just stripping armour to escape.

Rifle needs a slight buff and a shotgun a slight rework on certain stats.

-> Runners I can understand, but Lurkers and Crushers being shunned, really ? Crushers I can understand being a bit lower in the popularity chart, but calling it "shunned" is a bit overboard, since it just got the ability to lock the tank in place and tank can't threaten it with anything aside from extremely extremely weak fire damage from its Flamer.
-> Buckshot damage has always been like this (why do you think people use it if it doesn't have the damage). The sudden "a little to high currently" is either BC, PB or 2 shotguns. Marines using dual shotgun can be easily spat down because they have limited range and accuracy on their one handed guns. The entire so called "shotgun meta" includes both Slug and Buckshot too you know ? And it's a thing because everything else is not viable, against what was xeno pre stat nerf. It carries over since again, we don't have other alternatives in terms of doing a massive burst of damage aside from the M41A that is absolute shit without AP.
-> Drone, I like. Having Hivelord and Carrier more often helps the hive out a lot in preparing defense, it's just whether the players know to do it, and that's more of a user error, or a player issue.
-> I mean, you control when you regurgitate them, by clicking the action button. This is not crawling to a disconnected vent and getting out of it without you noticing. This is you, regurgitating a marine out, in probably an isolated place, with a hugger or an egg nearby. If you don't notice it properly, I don't really know what to say. Only situation where it should surprise you is if you devour them while they're still standing, and that's more of your fault than theirs.
-> We already have multiple nerfs to marines just stripping their armors to gain speed. If they're doing it in front of you, taze them. If they're way ahead of you and stripping, then it's not like the speed buff to MP's armor is gonna help. Though that is just my personal opinion.
-> M4 needs a slight buff yes, but shotgun doesn't need anything else done to it, especially after the horrid added delays. Shotgun users have to either 1. have shotgun on their hand always and risk losing it with one spit or 2. have the shotgun holstered manually or with Mag Harness, and just not being able to pull it out on time and shoot when shit hits the fan.

[solidfury7]

-> Runners I can understand, but Lurkers and Crushers being shunned, really ? Crushers I can understand being a bit lower in the popularity chart, but calling it "shunned" is a bit overboard, since it just got the ability to lock the tank in place and tank can't threaten it with anything aside from extremely extremely weak fire damage from its Flamer.
-> Buckshot damage has always been like this (why do you think people use it if it doesn't have the damage). The sudden "a little to high currently" is either BC, PB or 2 shotguns. Marines using dual shotgun can be easily spat down because they have limited range and accuracy on their one handed guns. The entire so called "shotgun meta" includes both Slug and Buckshot too you know ? And it's a thing because everything else is not viable, against what was xeno pre stat nerf. It carries over since again, we don't have other alternatives in terms of doing a massive burst of damage aside from the M41A that is absolute shit without AP.
-> Drone, I like. Having Hivelord and Carrier more often helps the hive out a lot in preparing defense, it's just whether the players know to do it, and that's more of a user error, or a player issue.
-> I mean, you control when you regurgitate them, by clicking the action button. This is not crawling to a disconnected vent and getting out of it without you noticing. This is you, regurgitating a marine out, in probably an isolated place, with a hugger or an egg nearby. If you don't notice it properly, I don't really know what to say. Only situation where it should surprise you is if you devour them while they're still standing, and that's more of your fault than theirs.
-> We already have multiple nerfs to marines just stripping their armors to gain speed. If they're doing it in front of you, taze them. If they're way ahead of you and stripping, then it's not like the speed buff to MP's armor is gonna help. Though that is just my personal opinion.
-> M4 needs a slight buff yes, but shotgun doesn't need anything else done to it, especially after the horrid added delays. Shotgun users have to either 1. have shotgun on their hand always and risk losing it with one spit or 2. have the shotgun holstered manually or with Mag Harness, and just not being able to pull it out on time and shoot when shit hits the fan.

Crushers are currently really squishy. They can stop the tank, but that doesn't stop the damage from the tank and the marines with it.

I've been using shotguns since the sulaco, the wielding delay was a crutch people had, and it was rightfully removed.

Buckshot damage was actually buffed via bug fix if I recall.


You can spit out marines randomly now, it's RNG. May be worth reading changelog on that one.

I watched a team of 4 pretty competent MPs try chase someone without armour in the hanger, it would of been comical if it wasn't so common. As stated, previously, it's an issue with the dual shotgun no armour meme.

Arguments regarding "counter them with this" personally doesn't hold ground in my humble opinion, its like when the Queen was broken OP with charging and xenos would tell marines to build barricades during the fight to counter it.

Counter play is an important factor and I like people adapt g to the enemy, but following the thought train that snipers should be the only counter to say, boilers is silly. I want a good player to have more impact on the game while still pushing the team driven narrative.

Currently using my phone so formatting is a bit shit.

[Grubstank]

I would disagree with anyone who says disarm needs buffing. I think it's at a great balance where it is. Every caste that needs a stun has access to one already - and the update has highlighted the importance of competent guardian caste xenos as a source of reliable, spammable stuns.

Runners should be for hit and runs - not for using pounce to engage and disarm to permanently disable them. Use your post-pounce time for attacks instead of disables and be happy.