Update Discussion Thread (September 2018)

[TheMaskedMan2]

Gotta say after playing a good chunk and quite a few rounds I am still not a fan at all of the 20 minute timer on crash landing. All it does is cut off 90% of Almayer fights right in the middle of them and it's barely enough time for either Xenos or Marines to win the battle. I'd argue to double the time limit or at least up it to 30 because atm it just feels like you shouldn't bother on Almayer as either side. No matter who wins they won't be able to kill all of the other side before it's stuffed into kaboom time.

[Grubstank]

Gotta say after playing a good chunk and quite a few rounds I am still not a fan at all of the 20 minute timer on crash landing. All it does is cut off 90% of Almayer fights right in the middle of them and it's barely enough time for either Xenos or Marines to win the battle. I'd argue to double the time limit or at least up it to 30 because atm it just feels like you shouldn't bother on Almayer as either side. No matter who wins they won't be able to kill all of the other side before it's stuffed into kaboom time.

I am personally very happy with the changes. The Almayer defense was always the worst part of the game in my opinion, and always felt like thinly-veiled delaying whilst the majority of people on the server helplessly watch from observer. Forcing the 20 minute timer is a good way to eliminate that drag on the round, while not completely eliminating the Almayer 'stage' that some people enjoy.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

I am personally very happy with the changes. The Almayer defense was always the worst part of the game in my opinion, and always felt like thinly-veiled delaying whilst the majority of people on the server helplessly watch from observer. Forcing the 20 minute timer is a good way to eliminate that drag on the round, while not completely eliminating the Almayer 'stage' that some people enjoy.

I feel they should just cut out the middle man and have the game end if either all the benos die, or if there are 0 surface marines and the benos bring up the shuttle. Would wrap up things nicely and stop the annoying '80 man retreat' meta.

[Steelpoint]

I do think that simply having the game end when the Marines are pushed off the planet/operations zone would cut down on the inane end game. You can save Almayer defence for admin events.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I feel they should just cut out the middle man and have the game end if either all the benos die, or if there are 0 surface marines and the benos bring up the shuttle. Would wrap up things nicely and stop the annoying '80 man retreat' meta.

Hang on a second, alot of the times the marines themselves dont know there may only be say 15 xenoes left and theres around 50 humans alive.If the xenoes are pushing hard it can and does give the impression to marines and command thats there much more a of threat in the way of numbers of hostiles than there really is.With the right circumstances and it does happen, a very low amount of xenoes can and will destroy a group of marines 2 to 3 times the size of the xenoes, sometimes more.

Thats not the fault of the marine players and you cant claim thats "retreat meta" either because they are unaware.Increasing the amount of bio-scans or making it able to scanned manually might help with this "meta retreating".

This is compounded with this multiple larva burst chances as the xenoes numbers fluctuate even more now than they did before, they might have 5 one second and then 15 within 5-10 minutes.

"80 man retreat", everytime i see people saying numbers like this, they are almost always not taking into account that not all 80 are actually marines fully decked out for warfare.With that kind of number its more like 50(usually scattered,easily flanked) give or take would be marines and 30 -/+ would be staff.Stop bending numbers out of context, alot you do it and its clearly not the actual numbers of marines your trying to imply it is.

And what about all those shipside staff members, like doctors that have been busting their arse all round trying to keep marines alive and fighting, they dont even get the possible chance to wield a firearm in the later stage of the round and have abit of fun before the next round? Pretty selfish.

I do think that simply having the game end when the Marines are pushed off the planet/operations zone would cut down on the inane end game. You can save Almayer defence for admin events.

That would be very one dimensional what you both are suggesting in my opinion.Xenoes could technically win within 30 minutes if it was like this.Does that sound fun to you?

Firstly lets looks at the small amount of lore issues if they even count for anything anymore.The only reason why the xenoes shouldnt be allowed to hijack the shuttle and initiate a Alamayer defence regardless of how many marines are alive is because they shouldnt even know how to use marine electronics in the first place.Yet they can, so lore was obviously never a issue and it was about gameplay as to why xenoes were even first allowed the attempt to hijack the Alamayer and re-engage the marines.

As well as that, Xenoes are apparently meant to be the aggressors, and your telling me that the marines should automatically loose because the aggressors have pushed them back enough that they must retreat to survive? Nope.

Gotta say after playing a good chunk and quite a few rounds I am still not a fan at all of the 20 minute timer on crash landing. All it does is cut off 90% of Almayer fights right in the middle of them and it's barely enough time for either Xenos or Marines to win the battle. I'd argue to double the time limit or at least up it to 30 because atm it just feels like you shouldn't bother on Almayer as either side. No matter who wins they won't be able to kill all of the other side before it's stuffed into kaboom time.

Although the 22 minute SD timer is abit strange, both sides can win within that time and ive been in and watched rounds already of both happening, its more than possible.

I personally like the Alamayer defence part of the rounds and so do others, not everyone see's it as "delaying" and actually see it for what it is most of the time, SURVIVING.

How about the admins make it clear that if in the current format, the SD timer goes off at its 22 minute mark, then its a DRAW for both sides, no marine minor or xeno major.

I am personally very happy with the changes. The Almayer defense was always the worst part of the game in my opinion, and always felt like thinly-veiled delaying whilst the majority of people on the server helplessly watch from observer. Forcing the 20 minute timer is a good way to eliminate that drag on the round, while not completely eliminating the Almayer 'stage' that some people enjoy.

Sometimes the Alamayer stage of the round is the best part.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

I'm still baffled why everyone keeps thinking removing things are a good idea.

Almayer defence can, at times, be horrible to play, but that isn't because it's a bad idea or anything, it's just because the map was designed with long, narrow hallways, chokepoints out the wazoo, and a severe lack of alternative routes for flankers to take.

Once a fight starts, you have 1 direction to go, you either break it, or die trying, and that's the problem.

If there was more ways to get around enemy defences, then I think almayer defences would be far harder for marines, i.e. far less terrible and elongated.

[MattAtlas]

Almayer defense is good most of the time, the only times I've hated it were the 4 M56D SD defense autismforts and the tank bay ladder shit. Everything else was and still is cool.

[WinterClould]

Almayer defence has been where I've had some of my greatest fun. Fighting on the ship doesn't need to be removed just improved.

[solidfury7]

I can see why the shipside defence timer was added, however I'm not the biggest fan of it to be honest.

[Pogo92]

Almayer defense is the most tense and thematic moments of many rounds. The utter chaos as communications and organization breakdown with Benos running roughshod is Alien encapsulated. Under no circumstances should it be removed unless it's replaced by something equally climactic.

[Steelpoint]

In my opinion shipside combat is repetitive, stale and lacks variety. Some of the recent changes have helped alleviate it but I believe it'll still return to being a boring event in time.

I personally think the game would be better served if the focus of the rounds combat was aimed at the groundside part than the shipside. Xenomorphs assaulting the Almayer, individually or as a hive, should be the exception and not the rule and preferably should be reserved for admin events or rare circumstances. Playing the waiting game as the surviving Marines spend five minutes preparing for the 'utterly unexpected' xeno invasion of the Almayer, listening to the same old statements on 'where did DS1 go' or akin, for the five hundredth time proves mind numbing in my opinion and is boring.

Not to mention there is no creativity in this event, at least with the round start sequence the Commander/XO has a lot of power to direct the style and theme of the operation and there is a far greater ability to suspend disbelief in doing the same operation again.

People like to shit talk when it comes to 'lore' and tone. But to this day I still believe that the entire concept of a Xenomorph Queen being able to expertly pilot a space ship, something that 95% of the Human players cannot do, through the void of space and be able to land it onboard the Almayer, a herculean feat unto itself, all the while NOT being shot down by one of dozens of anti-ship weapons, is a bad thing, and I feel that moving the combat of the game to the planet would allievate this issue I have.

The only thing I'll say shipside combat has going for it, in lore, is that it is utter suicide to engage Xenomorphs that have infested a ship, it's been stated in good authority that the USCM have only successfully cleared a ship of Xenomorphs a single time, every other attempt was an utter failure.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

In my opinion shipside combat is repetitive, stale and lacks variety. Some of the recent changes have helped alleviate it but I believe it'll still return to being a boring event in time.

I personally think the game would be better served if the focus of the rounds combat was aimed at the groundside part than the shipside. Xenomorphs assaulting the Almayer, individually or as a hive, should be the exception and not the rule and preferably should be reserved for admin events or rare circumstances. Playing the waiting game as the surviving Marines spend five minutes preparing for the 'utterly unexpected' xeno invasion of the Almayer, listening to the same old statements on 'where did DS1 go' or akin, for the five hundredth time proves mind numbing in my opinion and is boring.

Not to mention there is no creativity in this event, at least with the round start sequence the Commander/XO has a lot of power to direct the style and theme of the operation and there is a far greater ability to suspend disbelief in doing the same operation again.

People like to shit talk when it comes to 'lore' and tone. But to this day I still believe that the entire concept of a Xenomorph Queen being able to expertly pilot a space ship, something that 95% of the Human players cannot do, through the void of space and be able to land it onboard the Almayer, a herculean feat unto itself, all the while NOT being shot down by one of dozens of anti-ship weapons, is a bad thing, and I feel that moving the combat of the game to the planet would allievate this issue I have.

The only thing I'll say shipside combat has going for it, in lore, is that it is utter suicide to engage Xenomorphs that have infested a ship, it's been stated in good authority that the USCM have only successfully cleared a ship of Xenomorphs a single time, every other attempt was an utter failure.

Great post and mostly agreed.If shipside/Alamayer defence gameplay is stale and boring, then groundside is in a even worse position because thats exactly what it is right now.Its the same strategies and the same playouts majority of the time, randomness is being lost, its too precise almost, too much repetition and players are showing that with how good they are at certain map plays.

I mean fucking hell, this is the state of LV gameplay now :



Is this "working as intended" admins?

Is it?

[RobBrown4PM]

Great post and mostly agreed.If shipside/Alamayer defence gameplay is stale and boring, then groundside is in a even worse position because thats exactly what it is right now.Its the same strategies and the same playouts majority of the time, randomness is being lost, its too precise almost, too much repetition and players are showing that with how good they are at certain map plays.

I mean fucking hell, this is the state of LV gameplay now :



Is this "working as intended" admins?

Is it?

I have seen this maybe 3 or 4 times over the years. This is not a problem, it's simply a once in a blue moon action.

[Blade2000Br]

Great post and mostly agreed.If shipside/Alamayer defence gameplay is stale and boring, then groundside is in a even worse position because thats exactly what it is right now.Its the same strategies and the same playouts majority of the time, randomness is being lost, its too precise almost, too much repetition and players are showing that with how good they are at certain map plays.

I mean fucking hell, this is the state of LV gameplay now :



Is this "working as intended" admins?

Is it?

I mean, it's obviously the queen said she would build a wall and marines would pay for it.

You thoguht she was kidding? MUAWAWAWAW!

But yeah, that's some rare stuff that don't happen that often.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Even if it doesn't happen exactly like this, the LV meta for xeno is still to wall the everliving shit out of Tfort and Containers. A shame too, since all that effort, time and plasma can be better spent on fortifying inside the caves.

[Renomaki]

Even if it doesn't happen exactly like this, the LV meta for xeno is still to wall the everliving shit out of Tfort and Containers. A shame too, since all that effort, time and plasma can be better spent on fortifying inside the caves.

I agree with this thought.

While it is nice and all to have some frontal defenses, I can't tell you how often xenos seem to neglect or outright IGNORE the caves of LV, it getting so bad that staff in the past updated the map to have a few very basic defense setups because xenos just couldn't be arsed to do something as simple as build a 1-tile wide gate.

... No, this isn't just LV, this is a LOT of maps, and a lot of areas. On LV, it is very common for xenos to put all their efforts on the middle of the barrens, but the left and right flanks are almost always exposed or have very minimal defenses. They barely build up anything of worth on ANY map, seeming more focused on "WEEDING EVERYTHING" rather than weeding areas near the starting hive and then building it up. I can't tell you how often I seen weeds at the LZ, even if there is no point in having them there because they just get cut up anyways. What, is their tactic to just inconvenience the marines? Because that is what they accomplish, nothing more.

Hell, most drones just resort to sticky resin spam, which seems more like a band-aid for poor defenses than a proper defensive system. Sure, it can slow down a marine advance, but you know what would be better? A proper defense made up of resin, walls, and maybe even the odd door or two to help deny marines open access to an area for a moment. And of course we can't forget about scattering eggs all over the hive, right?

Gah, now I'm just ranting, but as a person who has played a fair amount of xeno and has done quite a bit of drone gameplay, I know for a fact that not a lot of drones really don't seem to give a shit about building reasonable defenses that utilize more than just weeds and sticky resin.

[Grubstank]

I agree with this thought.

While it is nice and all to have some frontal defenses, I can't tell you how often xenos seem to neglect or outright IGNORE the caves of LV, it getting so bad that staff in the past updated the map to have a few very basic defense setups because xenos just couldn't be arsed to do something as simple as build a 1-tile wide gate.

... No, this isn't just LV, this is a LOT of maps, and a lot of areas. On LV, it is very common for xenos to put all their efforts on the middle of the barrens, but the left and right flanks are almost always exposed or have very minimal defenses. They barely build up anything of worth on ANY map, seeming more focused on "WEEDING EVERYTHING" rather than weeding areas near the starting hive and then building it up. I can't tell you how often I seen weeds at the LZ, even if there is no point in having them there because they just get cut up anyways. What, is their tactic to just inconvenience the marines? Because that is what they accomplish, nothing more.

Hell, most drones just resort to sticky resin spam, which seems more like a band-aid for poor defenses than a proper defensive system. Sure, it can slow down a marine advance, but you know what would be better? A proper defense made up of resin, walls, and maybe even the odd door or two to help deny marines open access to an area for a moment. And of course we can't forget about scattering eggs all over the hive, right?

Gah, now I'm just ranting, but as a person who has played a fair amount of xeno and has done quite a bit of drone gameplay, I know for a fact that not a lot of drones really don't seem to give a shit about building reasonable defenses that utilize more than just weeds and sticky resin.

The issue is that walls and doors will do more to fuck over the xenos than help them if they are done poorly. Doing them well requires experience/game knowledge that a lot of drones don't have.

Weeding everywhere and adding sticky are actions that can pretty much never backfire on the xenos; I'd rather see a net mild-positive effect from a drone, than a net oh-my-god-we're-fucking-dead effect derived from an attempt to exceed that standard

[Heckenshutze]

Remember when there was thread discussing about moving our timeline a few years in the future? in a place where the USCM and the vast majority of the military knows or have heard about the Xenomorphs and know the USCM tries to keep them at bay destroying hives around planets and protecting colonies.

That my friend, is fresh, new RPs opportunities to exploit.

[Blade2000Br]

I prefer to reserve that as event only, considering this also has a balance touch on it.

[WinterClould]

Staying locked 24/7 in the endless groundhogs day of (insert day/month) 2186 is pretty rough. Changing it could do pretty good for us.

Some people might claim it would stripe away the "mystery" of the landing and investigation of the colony, but fuck that shit I say. There's no investigation and no mystery already, just 100 people "acting" like they don't know exactly where the xeno hive is while they waltz their happy asses the long way around the colony just to avoid getting called meta rushers. Or in LVs case sitting with their dicks in their hands like a fuckin marry band of circlejerkers while waiting for the fog to drop.

I think it's perfectly viable to push the lore into the future where marines will have "some" knowledge and understanding on xeno workings. Make the meta knowledge people have canon, give COs more freedom to actually look and act experienced in their craft.

With the recent buffs to xeno evo and maybe some extra changes as well we can save some time in our 2+~ hour long round by just letting marines do their thing and try to be the death from above they claim to be.
Don't let them straight meta rush but let them rapidly deduce where the hive could be, reduce the timers on the fog and lockdown so marines can move quicker. Seeing as xenos are evolving quicker now might as well get to the fight faster.

[Simo94]

IMO, to fix ship-side combat and therefore the endgame, they need to outright REMOVE self destructing the ship, reduce escape pods to 2 or 3 max near officers/civilian departments, massively speed the dropship crashing timer and nerf any meta famous last stand location, that way marines are less likely to retreat early as it becomes a disadvantage and they would have only one option when it happens: rush the xeno dropship crash site, it is much more fun when we do that, because its different everytime, sometimes you fight in the hangar, briefing, upper deck, cargonia.....etc, its different and fresh everytime, and god knows how sick and tired I am of cowering in SD or CiC every. single. round.

[Heckenshutze]

Staying locked 24/7 in the endless groundhogs day of (insert day/month) 2186 is pretty rough. Changing it could do pretty good for us.

Some people might claim it would stripe away the "mystery" of the landing and investigation of the colony, but fuck that shit I say. There's no investigation and no mystery already, just 100 people "acting" like they don't know exactly where the xeno hive is while they waltz their happy asses the long way around the colony just to avoid getting called meta rushers. Or in LVs case sitting with their dicks in their hands like a fuckin marry band of circlejerkers while waiting for the fog to drop.

I think it's perfectly viable to push the lore into the future where marines will have "some" knowledge and understanding on xeno workings. Make the meta knowledge people have canon, give COs more freedom to actually look and act experienced in their craft.

With the recent buffs to xeno evo and maybe some extra changes as well we can save some time in our 2+~ hour long round by just letting marines do their thing and try to be the death from above they claim to be.
Don't let them straight meta rush but let them rapidly deduce where the hive could be, reduce the timers on the fog and lockdown so marines can move quicker. Seeing as xenos are evolving quicker now might as well get to the fight faster.

Exactly this.

I'm tired of doing the same thing all over again for all rounds. At this point I just want to deploy knowing it's a bug hunt and not the silly bullshit we are bound to do ALL THE TIMES:

"Hey, a red dog!"

"Don't fire!"

"OW! DOG IS HOSTILE!"

Command Announcement

Wildlife is hostile, kill on sight

tired of that silly shit.

[Blade2000Br]

I don't see a reason for it currently. The devs already said they are working on different gamemodes as to keep the mystert in the air of what you are fighting, but maintaing the game how it is is not a downside, really.

[Gnorse]

There's no benefit to keeping our current "mystery" lore/whatever. Survivors are already jackshit, so we might as well remove them and push the timeline into the future where marines already know about the xenos.

Other than that, removing Fog/Timelocks or at least heavily reducing them would be a good idea since xenos mature faster.

[solidfury7]

I have seen this maybe 3 or 4 times over the years. This is not a problem, it's simply a once in a blue moon action.

This.

Aliens don't do it because it helps marines.

Regardless, I think we should just start with some new Base custom lore, flesh out the other factions and nations. (Three World Empire w h e n)

Our lore is already near enough a custom mush mash, so why not simply embrace it and add some cool stuff what makes sense or wasn't fleshed out properly in the little source material we have.