What Xenos Need

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

You are such a troll dude. No one wants to be " immortal gods that can kill marines with snap of their claw/fingers and that can't be killed in any way by one to two hits". You dont even play xeno and come here and tell us we are all wrong constantly. It gets annoying.

Proof, please.

Also argue his points, not his person, just declaring him a troll isn't going to disprove his points at all.

Personally I can see where he is coming from, saying that the server's stigma for how xenos behave has made it so any attempt at RP gets squandered or interrupted by the more 'gaming' xenos.

I don't appreciate his sarcasm, but I've found that the ye olde times when xenos were individually strong, to compensate for the incredibly long upgrade times, was a fair and fun way to play, especially when the marines were the majority of weak conscripts that you could cut down. Killing a xeno as a marine was incredibly satisfying, but killing a marine as xeno was probably just as if not a little less fun.

Nowadays killing a xeno feels more like a cakewalk than a struggle with some luck dashed on top, it's just click until you get a successful point-blank.

[CABAL]

You are such a troll dude. No one wants to be " immortal gods that can kill marines with snap of their claw/fingers and that can't be killed in any way by one to two hits". You dont even play xeno and come here and tell us we are all wrong constantly. It gets annoying.

Don't bend my words. I asked how to make them fun to play? They have only combat, so only combat is what they can "take" fun from.

"Immortal god with snap of his finger" is clearly a joke reference to Thanos.

Just ignore all what I write, take the joke seriously and answer to that joke only. This is how we should discuss.

[kastion]

Proof, please.

Also argue his points, not his person, just declaring him a troll isn't going to disprove his points at all.

Personally I can see where he is coming from, saying that the server's stigma for how xenos behave has made it so any attempt at RP gets squandered or interrupted by the more 'gaming' xenos.

I don't appreciate his sarcasm, but I've found that the ye olde times when xenos were individually strong, to compensate for the incredibly long upgrade times, was a fair and fun way to play, especially when the marines were the majority of weak conscripts that you could cut down. Killing a xeno as a marine was incredibly satisfying, but killing a marine as xeno was probably just as if not a little less fun.

Nowadays killing a xeno feels more like a cakewalk than a struggle with some luck dashed on top, it's just click until you get a successful point-blank.

yall are arguing shit that doesnt even make sense. How can xenos have rp and be faceless killing machines. You cant have it both ways. We say we want to diverge from aliens and have names and stuff and yall say no, we say we want to be stronger so we can be better faceless killing machines and yall say no. You want us to be stuck in the middle and be neither while bitching about both. It makes no sense.

[kastion]

you wanna know the real reason why xenos cant rp? Because marines fucking rush every game. Xenos have no down time what so ever. Xenos are in a fight for survival until they can push the marines back. If someone is sitting there emoting or something while 20 marines are shooting at the queen then ya he should get told hes an idiot. By the way what yall call RP for marines is shit anyways. This entire server doesnt even know what roleplaying is. Generic marine spitting chewing tobacco while saying something dumb with cuss words isnt much roleplaying. Preds doing stupid games because they are bored isnt roleplaying. 90% of players play this gmae to shoot each other not to roleplay. You want roleplaying go play a text based game or a crpg, those have real roleplaying.

[kastion]

Heres an example of what im saying, what person in their right mind would go into a pitch black cave to chase some giant monsters that a bigger, faster, stronger, and stealthier then you that have knives for hands and spears for tails while spitting acid and exploding in acid when you shoot them. NO ONE. so why are all of you doing that? its uncharacteristic. Its not good roleplay. So get off this marines roleplay better crap because they dont. None of you play a realistic person.

[misto]

why are people bringing up xeno rp in this mess of a thread. theyre movie badguy monsters. please stick to discussing mechanics

people occasionally bring up the possibility of a snake xeno or scorpion xeno that can inject poison. perhaps runners could be given a poison bite/sting so they have some kind of combat gimmick besides trying to provoke friendly fire and scratching up people that other xenos have knocked down

[Simo94]

snip

Well thank you for pointing out the obvious, thats our point, xenos cant RP and have no room for it for how fast paced rounds are nowadays, all they have is their win rates, all they can do is fight, its the one reason anyone would join that side, and guess what? they suck at it.

atleast marines have a character, can RP and do fun stuff like pumping a shotgun, even if losing.

[Swagile]

im with kastion on this

devs don't give a shit, this is just a vent thread so people have a place to complain

they never have given a shit unless you were staff (since at least as staff, you had direct access to talking to them and they'd assume your a human being, not another faceless player of the server), and it doesn't look like it has really changed at all

sure SOME devs actually listened, but for the most part they were in their little clique and never talked to us except to higher staff or to tell us "hey come test something XDDD"

no point complaining anymore, just play lurker / sentinel till they nerf that into the ground as well then leave

[CABAL]

yall are arguing shit that doesnt even make sense. How can xenos have rp and be faceless killing machines. You cant have it both ways. We say we want to diverge from aliens and have names and stuff and yall say no, we say we want to be stronger so we can be better faceless killing machines and yall say no. You want us to be stuck in the middle and be neither while bitching about both. It makes no sense.

I'm not saying do both. Don't make xenos faceless killers. Just becouse they are the "bad" guys doesn't mean they have to be faceless. Those who are against more personality for xenos just wipe their mouths with "lore", when we clearly don't follow it in gameplay at all. They "feel" like xenos have to be faceless, but they don't "feel" Queen fire immunity being dumb in "lore". You said "yall say no", yet I'm supporting that idea. Search for my posts, besides cancer, salt and retardation from hard Marine Main you will find that I wanted xenos to have diversity and I gave "lore" examples for it. "Feeling" of some players disregarded that.

you wanna know the real reason why xenos cant rp? Because marines fucking rush every game. Xenos have no down time what so ever. Xenos are in a fight for survival until they can push the marines back. If someone is sitting there emoting or something while 20 marines are shooting at the queen then ya he should get told hes an idiot. By the way what yall call RP for marines is shit anyways. This entire server doesnt even know what roleplaying is. Generic marine spitting chewing tobacco while saying something dumb with cuss words isnt much roleplaying. Preds doing stupid games because they are bored isnt roleplaying. 90% of players play this gmae to shoot each other not to roleplay. You want roleplaying go play a text based game or a crpg, those have real roleplaying.

What? Xenos don't have time to RP? They have X-ray vision and they don't need light to see everything. As a marine not behind a cade I'm risking my life to stop and write something. I know too well that lurkers and runners just wait for that cloud to pop up. As a xeno outside war zone you can only fear predators. Some players choose to meme, can't blame that, it's like tourette syndrome for them. Multiplayer = Meme. Every "dab" and "moth" and "Reeee" not in dchat, or OOC is a suffering for me. Xenos spinning like fidget spinner, you have shitlers on both sides. If xenos don't have time to RP, then marines shouldn't have time to even stop in one place to bandage wounds.

SS13 is mainly roleplay game, it is clunky to encourage it. If you don't want roleplaying then play AvP, or CoD, or BF, some FPS that is fast paced, easy to play and hard to master, not the other way around.

Heres an example of what im saying, what person in their right mind would go into a pitch black cave to chase some giant monsters that a bigger, faster, stronger, and stealthier then you that have knives for hands and spears for tails while spitting acid and exploding in acid when you shoot them. NO ONE. so why are all of you doing that? its uncharacteristic. Its not good roleplay. So get off this marines roleplay better crap because they dont. None of you play a realistic person.

One person probably not, but squad of "Class B" marines who don't have anything better to do? Overconfident, dumb and egocentric marines that run around without armor, but with two shotguns in hands. That kind of human could do it. It's not first USCM bug hunt, besides, nothing is stopping you as marine to create mutiny after frist ecounter. Get few marines who want to Roleplay and start this. Non-rp marines will gladly join the rebellion. Admins won't allow it every round, but once a day you will get approval.

im with kastion on this

devs don't give a shit, this is just a vent thread so people have a place to complain

they never have given a shit unless you were staff (since at least as staff, you had direct access to talking to them and they'd assume your a human being, not another faceless player of the server), and it doesn't look like it has really changed at all

sure SOME devs actually listened, but for the most part they were in their little clique and never talked to us except to higher staff or to tell us "hey come test something XDDD"

no point complaining anymore, just play lurker / sentinel till they nerf that into the ground as well then leave

Look on old threads with marines complaining for anything. It was all ignored to the point of assuming that staff/devs were xeno biased. Some were saying literally "Man up and deal with it" about body dragging being meta. Add rule against bodydragging? No! Just lock it. Sentinels stunning you and renesting before you could free yourself? "Not against the rules", but then it got locked also. Check "Quick Questions Thread".

[Swagile]

I'm not saying do both. Don't make xenos faceless killers. Just becouse they are the "bad" guys doesn't mean they have to be faceless. Those who are against more personality for xenos just wipe their mouths with "lore", when we clearly don't follow it in gameplay at all. They "feel" like xenos have to be faceless, but they don't "feel" Queen fire immunity being dumb in "lore". You said "yall say no", yet I'm supporting that idea. Search for my posts, besides cancer, salt and retardation from hard Marine Main you will find that I wanted xenos to have diversity and I gave "lore" examples for it. "Feeling" of some players disregarded that.



What? Xenos don't have time to RP? They have X-ray vision and they don't need light to see everything. As a marine not behind a cade I'm risking my life to stop and write something. I know too well that lurkers and runners just wait for that cloud to pop up. As a xeno outside war zone you can only fear predators. Some players choose to meme, can't blame that, it's like tourette syndrome for them. Multiplayer = Meme. Every "dab" and "moth" and "Reeee" not in dchat, or OOC is a suffering for me. Xenos spinning like fidget spinner, you have shitlers on both sides. If xenos don't have time to RP, then marines shouldn't have time to even stop in one place to bandage wounds.

SS13 is mainly roleplay game, it is clunky to encourage it. If you don't want roleplaying then play AvP, or CoD, or BF, some FPS that is fast paced, easy to play and hard to master, not the other way around.



One person probably not, but squad of "Class B" marines who don't have anything better to do? Overconfident, dumb and egocentric marines that run around without armor, but with two shotguns in hands. That kind of human could do it. It's not first USCM bug hunt, besides, nothing is stopping you as marine to create mutiny after frist ecounter. Get few marines who want to Roleplay and start this. Non-rp marines will gladly join the rebellion. Admins won't allow it every round, but once a day you will get approval.



Look on old threads with marines complaining for anything. It was all ignored to the point of assuming that staff/devs were xeno biased. Some were saying literally "Man up and deal with it" about body dragging being meta. Add rule against bodydragging? No! Just lock it. Sentinels stunning you and renesting before you could free yourself? "Not against the rules", but then it got locked also. Check "Quick Questions Thread".

i know, and the higher staff at the time's entire philosophy was "75-25" with xenos being the 75, Apop himself stated it that he wanted it to be authentic to "the Aliens franchise" or some shit, and thats how things went

now its an entire turn around to xenos being shit on

issue is that marines losing was more fun (even if i hate the concept) than xenos losing, as xenos get wiped out real quick whereas marines have defibs, evac to almayer, SADAR, etc

its just not as fun anymore to be a marine since the challenge is no longer there; the only hard part is facing off against good lurkers, or a good combat queen that knows when to extend and not to, or neuro spam; no other castes scare me that much. rav? charge it with PB and if you get charged and lose a hand, just ez evac to get a robo. crusher? pb shotgun it or even trap it by standing infront of it. warrior? bait it into lunging one marine then the other rushes PB shotgun. prae? only its neuro spit is scary, its acid takes a while to activate and has a long CD, and its acid spit is a tickle at best, can be dodged as well.

every caste can be easily countered by a standard marine now; which isn't how the game was designed.

[chocolate_bickie]

Buckshot is a whole problem in and off it's self. I mean, from a game play perspective it gives you 3 chances to stun per shot within a 2 tiles area, with a chance to stun a 3 tiles over a broader area. Furthermore, it's only taken to fight xenos. If you watch buckshot in HvH you can see these 'robust rambos' getting mowed down by machine guns since their just out-ranged. Buckshot serves no purpose other than to be a hard counter to close combat xenos.

[CABAL]

Buckshot is a whole problem in and off it's self. I mean, from a game play perspective it gives you 3 chances to stun per shot within a 2 tiles area, with a chance to stun a 3 tiles over a broader area. Furthermore, it's only taken to fight xenos. If you watch buckshot in HvH you can see these 'robust rambos' getting mowed down by machine guns since their just out-ranged. Buckshot serves no purpose other than to be a hard counter to close combat xenos.

Stun from something else than PB seems to not be adressed by xenomains, it was just skipped, or this is also a problem? Buckshot is only just the most prominent example, becouse it's easy to obtain. Pistol combo is not very popular right now, becouse you need a lot of attachements, but it can kill you faster than anything else in marine's weaponry besides SADAR. Take the buckshot out for a while and you will see a whole lot of marines running and gunning with pistols.

It's hard to balance shotgun to not be "hard counter to close combat" since it's like the whole concept behind shotguns at all. Good at close combat.

What are your (all xenomains and not) to balance shotgun? I have none. Just complaining about shotgun won't change anything.

[chocolate_bickie]

Stun from something else than PB seems to not be adressed by xenomains, it was just skipped, or this is also a problem? Buckshot is only just the most prominent example, becouse it's easy to obtain. Pistol combo is not very popular right now, becouse you need a lot of attachements, but it can kill you faster than anything else in marine's weaponry besides SADAR. Take the buckshot out for a while and you will see a whole lot of marines running and gunning with pistols.

It's hard to balance shotgun to not be "hard counter to close combat" since it's like the whole concept behind shotguns at all. Good at close combat.

What are your (all xenomains and not) to balance shotgun? I have none. Just complaining about shotgun won't change anything.

Buckshot itself is just an example of power gaming, it's ineffective in HvH but extremely strong in HvX. Not that buckshot won't kill quick in HvH, but you'll just get riddled by M41A AP before you get that close. Buckshot is used predominantly because i it is a hard counter to xenos and is taken so often just because of that fact.

With tackle stuns and the general RNG nature of neurotoxin being so bad buckshot does what xenos do but better and the only real balance is to buff xeno tackle stun to disarm marines before they can fire or buff nuero, which the devs have stated is less then ideal due to it making xenos too much like marines.

The AP+QFA+LS pistol combo is a problem but it's reliant on accuracy and skill rather than 'lucky' stun hits that buckshot grants marines. ss13 is ultimately a game of stun based combat and when you give a ranged army a close combat stun better than a close combat armies stuns, your creating a problem.

All of this wouldn't be an issue if marines had a reason to take ranged weaponry more often but knowing that they will face a close combat army 95% of the time just encourages taking hard counters to it all the time.

EDIT: Just realized I never addressed your main point of none buckshot stuns. The other stuns generally require some level or coordination or preparation e.g.CAS,OB,MINES. Slug embodies marines weapons better being an actual ranged stun, it's far more reliant on accuracy to stun (stun range is 5 tiles I believe) and is more fitting as something marines would use rather then xenos who are supposed to be the close combat specialists. Grenades require a degree of skill, are harder to spam but conversely also have a higher upside and even with explosion buffs they don't feel like a lucky shot is going to end you (except B18, fuckin dirty nade spammer).

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

There was a fix, suggested by Surr, when the latest Buckshot nerf took place (reduce the main projectile damage and lose 1 addition projectile). While the nerf was devastating to buckshot damage, and this was at the time when xeno stats weren't nerfed yet, the suggestion on gitlab said that Buckshot could stay with this damage, but with some added utility, like a slowdown that comes right after the stagger stun. But, it's been ignored, and Buckshot damage was semi brought back (the damage nerf to the main buckshot projectile still stayed, but the additional projectile was brought back to 2 from 1).

So, if you don't want Cuckshot (such a relevant name, I wonder who made that up) to be a boring OHKO weapon, sure, cut the damage. But add some utility for it, like a slowdown, or really anything other than pure damage.

[misto]

maybe pointblank buckshot could provoke even more excessive acid blood splashback than it already does?

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

maybe pointblank buckshot could provoke even more excessive acid blood splashback than it already does?

One beano kill for easily healed acid damage sounds like a good trade to me.

[Gnorse]

how about this.
Firing a shotgun one handed without a gyro causes you to drop/throw the shotgun away and deals some damage to you because of the high recoil.
this both nerfs pointblanks, lowers the amount of PBers due to gyro restrictions and actually makes gyros useful again.

[CABAL]

how about this.
Firing a shotgun one handed without a gyro causes you to drop/throw the shotgun away and deals some damage to you because of the high recoil.
this both nerfs pointblanks, lowers the amount of PBers due to gyro restrictions and actually makes gyros useful again.

I don't want to drop my shotgun when I accidentaly shoot one handed. It would be nice to have something like "safety" for one hand use.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Or we could revert back to the old days before the one-handed update, when everything was fine and dandy.

But seriously, having your gun just drop because you accidentally misclick before wielding seems the big succ, and I would trade shotgun damage away to avoid that.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

IMO if you're panicking and you end up getting a bad grip on your gun, you should absolutely suffer having to drop it, since you made a mistake.

Gyro can babysit that issue, I think it's a good idea.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

If Cuckshot is deemed too strong, nerf the damage. Please don't make it shitty to use. And the fact that you can accidentally drop your weapon while clearing weed one-handed really feels like shit.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Also I would like to add that there're very few people that consistently use vanilla cuckshot one-handed and PB only. The rest either wield or tag a gyro on their gun, so really this change will only address those few people.

Because, if you're not using a Gyro while one-handing only, your option gets limited to PB and that's it. You can't even reliably hit cuckshot past 1 tile.

[Simo94]

how about instead of nerfing buckshot, WE ACTUALLY GIVE IT COUNTERS BY GIVING XENOS VIABLE RANGED ATTACKS LIKE OLD PRAETORIAN ACID SPIT???????

[Gnorse]

if prae burn damage gets increased, for the love of christ lower the amount of pain it deals.

[CABAL]

how about instead of nerfing buckshot, WE ACTUALLY GIVE IT COUNTERS BY GIVING XENOS VIABLE RANGED ATTACKS LIKE OLD PRAETORIAN ACID SPIT???????

One - Two praes... I'm sure PFC's will be so scared that they won't even try to PB T1's and T2's.