Tank: A Nerf to marines, or xenos?

[Ketrai]

the rpg is way faster, the rpg doesn't take up as much space so you don't have to change fob designs, the rpg can be healed easily, the rpg can run around marines without smashing them, the rpg can go into caves so theres no where safe for xenos and theres probably more im forgetting. Less tanky is made up for by speed and easy revives and healing. The RPG is super OP dude. Bet you didn't even know the RPG can point blank instagib you. I know because I tried to run up and face hug one once as a drone and it did it. It didn't even hurt the RPG because the explosive doesn't activate. But ya lets just run up and face hug someone that has marines all around him unless hes being bald which in that case anything sucks when its a bald player.

Direct hits should really still explode, I agree on that part. No weapon should instakill unless it's really, really hard to get off. Like directly hitting a marine with a gas cloud. I'm also not a fan of you know, that lul decap chance. Tbh the rpg should come with a bit of a knockdown effect if you're too close. Too often I see 4-5 tiles distance shots, with the rpg getting off scot free. But otherwise, the marines need something to facilitate a push? Other than teamwork :^)

[Vispain]

the rpg is way faster, the rpg doesn't take up as much space so you don't have to change fob designs, the rpg can be healed easily, the rpg can run around marines without smashing them, the rpg can go into caves so theres no where safe for xenos and theres probably more im forgetting. Less tanky is made up for by speed and easy revives and healing. The RPG is super OP dude. Bet you didn't even know the RPG can point blank instagib you. I know because I tried to run up and face hug one once as a drone and it did it. It didn't even hurt the RPG because the explosive doesn't activate. But ya lets just run up and face hug someone that has marines all around him unless hes being bald which in that case anything sucks when its a bald player.

The RPG is a person. A person can die much more easily.

Also. The fact you admitted attempting to facehugger hug a RPG guy and bitching about dying to it really says a lot.

No shit the RPG Rocket is going to pointblank gib a T1 xeno... Same goes for humans...even at range.
It's a fuckin' rocket mate. Not a bullet.


As for insta-kills in both Marine and Xeno sides of things? Absolutely. Keep it. Keep DECAP.

It's a thing in war and unrealistic to remove it in game because, "I don't feel it's fair" is stupid. Absolutely things should insta kill. A Rav aiming head and slashing unprotected heads should be a possible instakill. A boiler hitting a marine directly should absolutely have a change to be a instahusk. A Rocket hitting a xeno or human should absolutely have a chance to be a instagib.

I feel like the concept of "It's a ROCKET" and "CM isn't supposed to be a 100% fair conflict" doesn't really register with some people. 100% CM should not be "fair." Both sides have their styles and if utilized both sides can be OP. Furthermore... is a war fair? Is a gunfight ever truly fair?

Hint. The answer is no.

Perhaps we should be sad over the fact that the Revolutionary War wasn't "balanced." Vietnam wasn't "balanced." #nerfUS #OPfaction.

Yet, in both those situations the defender won despite the odds. Crazy... even with the 'game design' of God being rather... unfair.

Game design used to essentially be and likely still is: "Keep xeno win rate at around 75%." Sides will be skewed and things will straight up kill you.

Deal with it. Life isn't fair and CM isn't either.

-----------
If you are going to attempt to argue "balance" and shit in this context, be prepared to argue for 'fair' maps and the complete removal of Decaps, husking, voring, combat hugging, gibs...
And if you do that... you are truly too far gone to be saved.

[Swagile]

despite SADAR instakill being super dumb

the SADAR is the human equivalent of a T3

you have to be super skilled as a xeno, or for the SADAR to misstep, for you to take one down

just like a T3 on the xeno side can only be taken out with supreme skill, or a misstep by the T3 player

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

I have, and probably still will be of the opinion that the marines crutch on the RPG way too much currently.

It's not the damage that's the problem with the RPG, its the 6-20 second stun time. Its so ludicrously long that even if it didn't directly hit you, you can already tell that you are not escaping alive, just because something exploded somewhat near you before you had any idea it was there.

And that can be compared to a screech, sure. But screeches have a counter, several, infact. The RPG's only counter is to whiff the rocket, and then charge through however many marines are guarding them to kill it. It's possible, sure, but unless you're a lurker, Queen, or Ravager, you aren't gonna kill it.

[TheDonkified]

I mean, the RPG spec and the queen have the same level of vulnerability. If a spec is going to fire a rocket, they are most likely at the front, so they are exposed in that respect. Queen is going to screech, she is going to be in the front with xeno backup. Queen is tankier than a marine and her backup is (usually) more powerful than marine backup. RPG spec has the vulnerability of being human.

If anything, the only major issue with it is the one-tile offscreen gib/stun it can do, which I do not think is really an issue if you have proper xenos scouting and constantly stating where the RPG is. Perhaps if you could no longer attach the mini-rail and it is still scoring kills, xenos should stop complaining and actually utilize communication skills so they do not get gibbed by a marine with the same vision range as them???

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Honestly the 3 big things I think the RPG could have to make it funner to play against is the following:

Shorter stun time

No minirail attachable

RPG specs becoming unable to use Night Vision sights

Honestly if those 3 things are changed, the RPG is still a MASSIVE damage powerhouse, considering it can AP-RPG a rav to instantly kill it, while also not confirming kills on things that are meant to be explosive proof and being able to cheese the xenos by stealing sights from other specs.

[Swagile]

yeah but you forget that SADAR needs ammo, which costs req, and is human; hence can get a hand chopped off and rendered useless for a good time

whereas something like a Queen only has a cool down to her screech (no ammo) (no i don't count plasma she can regen in seconds as ammo), can ward, and tank a lot of shots and keep going

the RPG stun is balanced, despite how distasteful it is, due to its complete counter being reusable (screech)

[Ketrai]

I have, and probably still will be of the opinion that the marines crutch on the RPG way too much currently.

It's not the damage that's the problem with the RPG, its the 6-20 second stun time. Its so ludicrously long that even if it didn't directly hit you, you can already tell that you are not escaping alive, just because something exploded somewhat near you before you had any idea it was there.

And that can be compared to a screech, sure. But screeches have a counter, several, infact. The RPG's only counter is to whiff the rocket, and then charge through however many marines are guarding them to kill it. It's possible, sure, but unless you're a lurker, Queen, or Ravager, you aren't gonna kill it.

Last time I played I was a boiler on prison. Rav and I were trying to stop marines from coming down a hallway, with a lurker and spitter quickly backing us up. Got hit by the rpg whilst trying to far sight to make sure they're still afraid from coming up the hall. Boom, instantly met with an offscreen HE, stunning all four of us. Since HE, I wasn't that badly hurt, but the stun was taking so awfully long random marine spraying would've killed me. I was in heavy crit by the time an experienced warrior pulled me the fudge out. Normally marines have to rush in and make a proper counter attack. I would've been so dissapointed if I'd died there.

[kastion]

The RPG is a person. A person can die much more easily.

Also. The fact you admitted attempting to facehugger hug a RPG guy and bitching about dying to it really says a lot.

No shit the RPG Rocket is going to pointblank gib a T1 xeno... Same goes for humans...even at range.
It's a fuckin' rocket mate. Not a bullet.


As for insta-kills in both Marine and Xeno sides of things? Absolutely. Keep it. Keep DECAP.

It's a thing in war and unrealistic to remove it in game because, "I don't feel it's fair" is stupid. Absolutely things should insta kill. A Rav aiming head and slashing unprotected heads should be a possible instakill. A boiler hitting a marine directly should absolutely have a change to be a instahusk. A Rocket hitting a xeno or human should absolutely have a chance to be a instagib.

I feel like the concept of "It's a ROCKET" and "CM isn't supposed to be a 100% fair conflict" doesn't really register with some people. 100% CM should not be "fair." Both sides have their styles and if utilized both sides can be OP. Furthermore... is a war fair? Is a gunfight ever truly fair?

Hint. The answer is no.

Perhaps we should be sad over the fact that the Revolutionary War wasn't "balanced." Vietnam wasn't "balanced." #nerfUS #OPfaction.

Yet, in both those situations the defender won despite the odds. Crazy... even with the 'game design' of God being rather... unfair.

Game design used to essentially be and likely still is: "Keep xeno win rate at around 75%." Sides will be skewed and things will straight up kill you.

Deal with it. Life isn't fair and CM isn't either.

-----------
If you are going to attempt to argue "balance" and shit in this context, be prepared to argue for 'fair' maps and the complete removal of Decaps, husking, voring, combat hugging, gibs...
And if you do that... you are truly too far gone to be saved.

up the decap chance to like 25% then we will see if you think decap is fair. A Direct RPG hit is always an instagib on anything t1 to t2 and an AP rocket can instagib t3 too. It can stun queen for 20 seconds which is supposed to be explosive resistant. A rocket point blanking makes no sense whatsoever but ok. This is a game not real life. We can get into the stupid arguement of oh a gun blows up the laiens instantly and the alien instakills the marine blah blah blah. Who cares its a game. Ya it says alot me btiching about dying to a rpg point blank because I have to risk my life to take it off the field because its so fucking op it can single handedly wipe a hive. You sound like a retard dude.

[FGRSentinel]

Honestly the 3 big things I think the RPG could have to make it funner to play against is the following:

Shorter stun time

No minirail attachable

RPG specs becoming unable to use Night Vision sights

Honestly if those 3 things are changed, the RPG is still a MASSIVE damage powerhouse, considering it can AP-RPG a rav to instantly kill it, while also not confirming kills on things that are meant to be explosive proof and being able to cheese the xenos by stealing sights from other specs.

You forget that, unless something changed I'm not aware of, ONLY the Spec that picked the SADAR loadout can use the RPG. Specs, medics, engineers, SGs, and SLs are basically the marine equivalent of castes that they can only get a certain number of on each squad and can't replace once killed. In that sense, Boilers are generally better than the SADAR/RPG spec: you can have more than one, spread them out, and bombard the SADAR from range just like he can bombard them, but he can only engage one boiler at a time while the boilers can focus fire his position to keep him/her pinned and prevent them from firing a shot.

[Swagile]

man if y'all complaining about SADAR now

you weren't here when all 4 specs could choose SADAR

that was a wild ride

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

I mean, he joined in 2016, so he probably had been through that time.

[kastion]

I mean, he joined in 2016, so he probably had been through that time.

everything blurs together because recent stuff occupies my mind more than old stuff. I remember HATING sadar like 2 years ago, then it got shit, now its back to op. I feel it isnt as OP as it used to be though.

[misto]

if the tank were reintroduced, the simplest nerf to it would be to remove the fireball gun subweapon thing

[Vispain]

"Ya it says alot me btiching about dying to a rpg point blank because I have to risk my life to take it off the field because its so fucking op it can single handedly wipe a hive. You sound like a retard dude..."

u mad bro?

> When you're a T1 and get pissed you died to a Anti-Armor Piercing Rocket Propelled Grenade because you tried to kill it.
Pretty dumb dude.
If you're as old as your forum account shows, you should know that.

Crushers and Queens SHOULD get their explosive immunity back. I agree with you on that.

Also, I recently saw a round on LV where the tank came back for just that round and I was playing xeno... we xenos still won easily.
Lots of things come down to skill and a bit of luck.

[FGRSentinel]

It doesn't matter if something's OP or not if it's in the hands of someone who can't use it properly. Likewise, unless you intentionally make something to be useless, someone will find a way to make it seem OP.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Well yeah I was around when specs could all pick the same type, but back then SADAR's were pretty balanced, mostly being a huge source of damage rather than a 14 year stun timer. THAT medal belonged to the B18 at the time, with it's ability to solo a queen with a stunlock.

I still stand by what I said, tho. The RPG's stun needs to be lessened to be at the same level as other specialist weapons.

[Ketrai]

It doesn't matter if something's OP or not if it's in the hands of someone who can't use it properly. Likewise, unless you intentionally make something to be useless, someone will find a way to make it seem OP.

There's a difference between powergaming and just being good too though. One guy got scouts banned from using shotgun because cloak > PB. Not saying it's the case here, but anything powerful will likely get abused eventually.

[Ketrai]

u mad bro?

> When you're a T1 and get pissed you died to a Anti-Armor Piercing Rocket Propelled Grenade because you tried to kill it.
Pretty dumb dude.
If you're as old as your forum account shows, you should know that.

Crushers and Queens SHOULD get their explosive immunity back. I agree with you on that.

Also, I recently saw a round on LV where the tank came back for just that round and I was playing xeno... we xenos still won easily.
Lots of things come down to skill and a bit of luck.

Not sure it was the same round, but one of the reincarnated tank rounds the mins had to give the benos a lot of reinforcements to win against it. It really depends on the TC and willingness of marines to support it.

[Vispain]

Not sure it was the same round, but one of the reincarnated tank rounds the mins had to give the benos a lot of reinforcements to win against it. It really depends on the TC and willingness of marines to support it.

The round I saw I know the xenos gave no reinforcements as I was a xeno and later an observer. Got unlucky when I overextended.
Anyways...

Yeah, TC like many roles depends on skill. More so as you need 2 people of good planning and mindset.

The round I saw the marines were willing to support it but the TCs, as many did before it was removed, overextended with the driver charging the tank in while the gunner just was overwhelmed by too many contacts. Read: They had a Artillery loadout but charged in as though they wanted to hit the xenos with their swords.

[Boersgard]

I have, and probably still will be of the opinion that the marines crutch on the RPG way too much currently.

It's not the damage that's the problem with the RPG, its the 6-20 second stun time. Its so ludicrously long that even if it didn't directly hit you, you can already tell that you are not escaping alive, just because something exploded somewhat near you before you had any idea it was there.

And that can be compared to a screech, sure. But screeches have a counter, several, infact. The RPG's only counter is to whiff the rocket, and then charge through however many marines are guarding them to kill it. It's possible, sure, but unless you're a lurker, Queen, or Ravager, you aren't gonna kill it.

Marines "crutch" on the RPG because it's one of the few ways to actually kill xenos. You will almost never kill one with regular M41's, let alone weapons like the SG or SMG. Explosives + stun are the only thing marines have that even give them a chance.

[Boersgard]

With respect to the tank, just give it AP rounds instead of HE and require direct hits to fuck up xenos.

Though I would personally remove the tank and add an IFV/APC or two with an autocannon. Something marines can jump into, maybe takes up less space, moves faster and isn't dishing out HE. Marines are in desperate need of what amounts to a fast barricade following behind their pushes. It doesn't need to be killy like the tank, but it does need to be dangerous enough to help hold back swarms. Maybe even deploy and act like an on-field operations center/med-tent for an SO and medics.

[Shadow]

To be honest, I never really ever saw the tank in action, so I thought it was basically just something that was there. It never really seemed to make a difference anyhow, as the few times I saw it, it got fucked almost immediately.