The problem with roleplaying in Colonial Marines

[Swagile]

yeah i never ask for aSL as a Engi or Medic; i have better things to do than Issuing Orders or watching the flow of combat

ill relay if we have to retreat due to too many wounded, but thats about it when im medic; same with Engi if im busy repairing cades or making forward cades

[Frans_Feiffer]

i cant wait to be lead by a fucking commander council german who can't speak english
or the other one who can speak english but adds random ks into his words

Vat ist dis English zat you speak of, mein main man? Zat Kommandant ist too hard to understand, ast his accent ist too stronk. Step up your game, und ve’ll be gut XD

[Sleepy Retard]

Vat ist dis English zat you speak of, mein main man? Zat Kommandant ist too hard to understand, ast his accent ist too stronk. Step up your game, und ve’ll be gut XD

Oh God oh fuck

[Frans_Feiffer]

Oh God oh fuck

[adrenalinetooth]

Specs rarely want to lead anyway, whats the big deal? Smartgunners usually make better SLs anyway.

hey remember this thing that went nowhere

[Snypehunter007]

As someone who was staff for about two years, I can tell you that the cause of decreased marine RP, increased metagaming/relaxed standards, and etc are due to a combination of factors.

A.) General burnout from long term players.
B.) A "hands off" approach by staff.

There are probably more but I'd like to delve into the second reason I gave.

When I originally joined, there was a lot more involvement from staff in regards to watching over players and the rules reflected as such. We were a lot harder on the playerbase then, more strict, more confining and a lot of people gave us shit for it. The problem became that our rules caused certain roles, like security, to become kinda pointless due to the fact that a lot of people who would warrant being in the brig usually broke some type of server rule instead of marine law, again, as they were both written at the time.

A lot of mechanics were put in place due to the behavior and gameplay problems we had at the time such as LV fog to prevent metarushing, skills being tied to roles to prevent powergaming, etc, that there was a gap in time where a lot of players never entered the server and experienced these things that veterans had. Due to other efforts on top of this, the player base was improved for a time and rules gradually relaxed due to mechanics being introduced and, in particular, the multiple Marine Law rewrites that have happened.

A lot of this has been done to give players more to do and let staff take the "hands off" approach which has been a double-edged sword. With players policing themselves for the most part and slowly allowing previously un-allowed behaviors become acceptable, you get a degradation in quality of RP, or at least the behavior of players in general. This also allows staff to relax more as well and enjoy rounds themselves too.

On the flip side however, people are less afraid of being banned or caught by staff. A big thing about specifically marine RP, and I mean on-the-ground marines by this, is that you can't ICly really enforce RP. It has been a problem for ages and there hasn't been a fix for it. If someone escapes planetside, you can forget enforcing any type of IC punishments. Actions that take place like looting, disobedience of squad members to their squad leader, etc. All of that can't be enforced ICly, it just can't, but the rules and staff approach expects it to now.



Just as a note, it is late here and I'm studying for finals so this probably doesn't make much sense considering I'm rambling ATM. If you need me to clarify or disagree, please quote me and I'll clean it up.

[Sulaboy]

As someone who was staff for about two years, I can tell you that the cause of decreased marine RP, increased metagaming/relaxed standards, and etc are due to a combination of factors.

A.) General burnout from long term players.
B.) A "hands off" approach by staff.

There are probably more but I'd like to delve into the second reason I gave.

When I originally joined, there was a lot more involvement from staff in regards to watching over players and the rules reflected as such. We were a lot harder on the playerbase then, more strict, more confining and a lot of people gave us shit for it. The problem became that our rules caused certain roles, like security, to become kinda pointless due to the fact that a lot of people who would warrant being in the brig usually broke some type of server rule instead of marine law, again, as they were both written at the time.

A lot of mechanics were put in place due to the behavior and gameplay problems we had at the time such as LV fog to prevent metarushing, skills being tied to roles to prevent powergaming, etc, that there was a gap in time where a lot of players never entered the server and experienced these things that veterans had. Due to other efforts on top of this, the player base was improved for a time and rules gradually relaxed due to mechanics being introduced and, in particular, the multiple Marine Law rewrites that have happened.

A lot of this has been done to give players more to do and let staff take the "hands off" approach which has been a double-edged sword. With players policing themselves for the most part and slowly allowing previously un-allowed behaviors become acceptable, you get a degradation in quality of RP, or at least the behavior of players in general. This also allows staff to relax more as well and enjoy rounds themselves too.

On the flip side however, people are less afraid of being banned or caught by staff. A big thing about specifically marine RP, and I mean on-the-ground marines by this, is that you can't ICly really enforce RP. It has been a problem for ages and there hasn't been a fix for it. If someone escapes planetside, you can forget enforcing any type of IC punishments. Actions that take place like looting, disobedience of squad members to their squad leader, etc. All of that can't be enforced ICly, it just can't, but the rules and staff approach expects it to now.



Just as a note, it is late here and I'm studying for finals so this probably doesn't make much sense considering I'm rambling ATM. If you need me to clarify or disagree, please quote me and I'll clean it up.

I really get this. Staff only tend to step in if something is ahelped now, and even then the direction the server has moved to involves most of the punishments being handled IC. There's some stuff that we leave IC that really bother me sometimes because it just doesn't feel right.

[adrenalinetooth]

A.) General burnout from long term players.
B.) A "hands off" approach by staff.

Ding ding ding. Once Feweh and Apop left, the staff team's spine became more limp than a flaccid dick. No one wants to be that hated guy for putting their foot down and actually enforcing all of the rules. I remember when people would get bwoinked the moment they picked up the earmuffs on the planet on first deployment. You'd never see that nowadays.

[waswar]

It's strange, because I kind of have the opposite perspective. Rules to shape up the low roleplayers are one thing, but there are also situations where people are barred from reacting a certain way because of improper escalation or the like, or having something be classified as griefing when it's a more complicated manner than that, and thus I don't mind the laid back attitude when it comes around.

I've always been a sort of, be more laissez-faire and let things shape up by themselves but it's fair enough if it's unlikely.

[Sulaboy]

It's strange, because I kind of have the opposite perspective. Rules to shape up the low roleplayers are one thing, but there are also situations where people are barred from reacting a certain way because of improper escalation or the like, or having something be classified as griefing when it's a more complicated manner than that, and thus I don't mind the laid back attitude when it comes around.

I've always been a sort of, be more laissez-faire and let things shape up by themselves but it's fair enough if it's unlikely.

Improper escalation is a fancy way to put a confrontation with the lack of RP. Some situations are dealt with differently based on what the people have said. To cover yourself in this event please say something, anything, about the situation. If you start beating on someone because they keep bumping into your character I won't be able to tell that in an investigation, I'll just see that you started punching the guy.

[spookydonut]

Improper escalation is something I consistently see enforced (although often with very weird results)

[Kineem]

I remember one time when someone got banned for powergaming by bringing spare powerpacks down on the first deployment. You'd never see that nowadays.

you don't see it happen nowadays because punishing players for bringing extra ammunition to a possible combat scenario is something only an idiot would happily enforce, not because people are terrified of getting dickslapped by an angry illiterate man in mod PMs

I appreciate the way things are currently ran rather than the way things were ran a long time ago as Snypehunter007 described. even if it has caused a reduction of quality in people's RP, enforcing roleplay just doesn't work in a server where the entire game is balanced around people running around shooting shit with little else to it. when the staff team used to enforce those rules in the past, they didn't create good roleplay, they just forced people do the absolute bare minimum of RP required so the people wouldn't get banned from a server they had fun playing in.

[Snypehunter007]

Ding ding ding. Once Feweh and Apop left, the staff team's spine became more limp than a flaccid dick. No one wants to be that hated guy for putting their foot down and actually enforcing all of the rules. I remember when people would get bwoinked the moment they picked up the earmuffs on the planet on first deployment. You'd never see that nowadays.

Well, to be fair, changes were made to push things in the direction of "focus on IC punishments" before the two of them left. It just has been amplified recently.

I'm not going to call out names, but there was a moment back when Vitoras had his CDR Whitelist removed where it really hit me. I was talking with other CDRs in the CDR channel on discord and there was a debate as to whether or not it was the fault of ramboing squads (Delta) or the CDR (Vitoras).

When I suggested that staff potentially watch squad behaviors, in this case the most likely culprits were Delta, and start getting on them for LowRP if they saw it, I essentially got told by several staff members that it was impossible to do so.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but when we had the Great Metarush Problems of 2016-2017, we (staff) would often sit at river and see if anyone was toeing the line or metarushing. We took time out of our day to watch out for it, because we knew it was a prevalent problem. It just astounded me that the team I worked on for so long just said, "Yeah, no, that is really hard and impossible to keep track of."

The point isn't that you will catch everyone by doing this, but you'll lay down the groundwork for better behavior and reminding players that staff are watching. The solution isn't permanent by any means, but it is a good temporary solution to start instilling discipline in the short term til a more permanent solution can be found.

[MattAtlas]

Improper escalation is something I consistently see enforced (although often with very weird results)

thats mostly because improper escalation is some of the easiest shit to find, logs + someone will ahelp it straight away

i have mixed feelings about RP in CM, it's at the point where it's just barely enough for the server to be MRP and that's fine imo -- it's a game about shooting aliens, while i would appreciate more RP you can't have the cake and eat it too

before anyone says it yes I have broken character several times, why you ask? because there are zero consequences, it's not enforced, nobody ahelps it, hell at this point it could literally not be against the rules and nothing would change, i've seen people default fortnite dance

[Dolth]

Well. I am glad you tell us that Snype. I keep answeeing we had meta enforced 2 years ago to new staff members when they say it can't be, and I had the "hands down" confirmation via dome friends currently in.

Guess CM is dying without papa Apop.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

We had a moderator meeting today and this thread was bought up.

Most of us came to consensus that if PFC joe blow wants to meme, we’re not gonna stop them from having fun and enjoying the game. But if SL/RO/CE/CO Jane doe wants to meme and not properly follow the proper RP standards we will crack down on it.

Basically in a nutshell if you’re gonna play a role with some responsibility, treat it a little bit more serious.

[spookydonut]

No point playing a serious role if everyone under you is a memer

[kastion]

We had a moderator meeting today and this thread was bought up.

Most of us came to consensus that if PFC joe blow wants to meme, we’re not gonna stop them from having fun and enjoying the game. But if SL/RO/CE/CO Jane doe wants to meme and not properly follow the proper RP standards we will crack down on it.

Basically in a nutshell if you’re gonna play a role with some responsibility, treat it a little bit more serious.

Ya the problem with that is theres like 60 pfcs to like 15 officers. So thats a huge meme/serious ratio.

[Urytion]

We had a moderator meeting today and this thread was bought up.

Most of us came to consensus that if PFC joe blow wants to meme, we’re not gonna stop them from having fun and enjoying the game. But if SL/RO/CE/CO Jane doe wants to meme and not properly follow the proper RP standards we will crack down on it.

Basically in a nutshell if you’re gonna play a role with some responsibility, treat it a little bit more serious.

The problem there is that PFCs don't follow orders because they're meming, so your SL is essentially a glorified PFC with binoculars and a command headset that isn't allowed to meme with the squad. Why bother being SL?

[Bancrose]

The problem there is that PFCs don't follow orders because they're meming, so your SL is essentially a glorified PFC with binoculars and a command headset that isn't allowed to meme with the squad. Why bother being SL?

SL Armour, CAS Binocs, C4, 7 AP Mags, Whistle Spam, Free Attachment and access to a Machete, also their uniform comes with free webbing and you have marine pheromones.

There is alot to like about SL.

Also who would have guessed that earning the respect of your men and being liked is all it takes for them to follow orders?

[spookydonut]

>SLs are going to be held to a higher standard and must follow command orders within reason

>PFCs are not held to any standard and can ignore any orders they want.

[kastion]

Half the things that are considered memes would get you demoted, reassigned to some shit job, or straight up court martialed in the real military but on this game IC punishments are like 20 minute time out. Now moderators are saying they wont even enforce anything. What do you expect to happen to the game long term?

Also I don't think we need a moderating staff if you aren't going to moderate so I expect some of you to start losing your job.

[Ketrai]

Half the things that are considered memes would get you demoted, reassigned to some shit job, or straight up court martialed in the real military but on this game IC punishments are like 20 minute time out. Now moderators are saying they wont even enforce anything. What do you expect to happen to the game long term?

Also I don't think we need a moderating staff if you aren't going to moderate so I expect some of you to start losing your job.

I mean, they're still actively recruiting more and more moderators. Especially for lowpop hours. Also it has been said that if you never follow an order as marine, you will get in trouble. Like if your SO repeatedly tells you to stop being a snowflake and wear a helmet. Especially if someone had already died helmetless.

Either way, I do agree that some marines really do just meme too much. I see xenos being much more casual with a meme thrown around once in a while. Whilst the sheer amount of marines memeing is almost constant!

Also, it should be made clear that "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
Like xenos are allowed to wall off entire areas with thick resin walls if they want. But it doesn't mean it won't make you a dick, and have you pass for a human with common decency. Same goes for marines. Just because you can get away with looting someone who just died, doesn't mean you should, it's a dick move. The biggest difference between the two sides though, is that marines are a bigger group, with recognizable marines that show up round after round. Familiarity and group pressure makes being a clown much easier.

[WinterClould]

I'm agreeing with a lot of the people criticizing the staff team here. We used to be better then this. It's not that we can't make things better, it's just that mods don't want to put in the work needed to make things better and the people in charge of those mods don't seem to care.

Which is whatever man. You want CM to be lrp so be it don't bother making 90% of the player base act like adults. But don't expect to get any worthwhile results by only putting pressure on the smallest most infrequently played groups of people.

Few people play SL/SO often enough and consistently enough for higher standards to matter for them. Fat chance that those standards would be enforced anyway. When people play 1-2 rounds of SL/SO, find that all their PFC don't give a single flying fuck about dick, what do you think they're gonna do? Try to lead that bullshit? Na they're gonna enjoy the better armor/ap mags while ramboing for the one round then go back to playing standard or whatever.



Some of you might say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, well, back in the apop/feweh days we had a solution to this problem. It was called waterboarding and it worked damnit.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Now moderators are saying they wont even enforce anything.

This is the problem, you assume we aren’t gonna enforce anything. I didn’t say that directly.

I think you guys need to remember was our rule set changed when rahziel took over and the consensus from the community was more IC punishment less OOC punishment when the rule set was changed.

We said we would crack down on the round start shenanigans, but something that was bought up during our discussions was Internet memes and stuff

Do you really want us to ban a player for saying
“I really yeeted on those lizards.”