Suggestion: Distrupt Hivemind communication on Queen death

[Gamarr]

One of the things I seen mentioned was the 'lack of the queens screech at the right time turning the tables' or somesuch during assaults. That there is part of the problem, the queen shouldn't default be leading assaults and xenos counting on her AoE long-recharge, 250 plasma stun attack. Assault-queens that often go into combat take the risks of dying. This is their fault, and really an earned downside to having her die would be lack of xeno-comms.

Queens are not there for you to lead charges. This is bad form/habit on part of the xeno players and this seems a good work to help limit that tendency. As for them NEEDING communication in order to choose a new queen, that is also entirely on them. Given you need a drone to make the new queen, if you don't have at least one in case of queens death, then that is their fault for not planning for that eventuality with a single drone minimum. Them arguing, not having a drone, or whatever during the interim is par the course for what happens when your HIVEMINDs head honcho gets itself killed by trying to spearhead a charge despite being slow as a tractor.

I am fond of this change because, frankly I was trying to think of a way to nerf the queen/her abused Roar for a bit, and this seems like a good way without directly nerfing the queen herself. So definitely approving.

[Toroic]

One of the things I seen mentioned was the 'lack of the queens screech at the right time turning the tables' or somesuch during assaults. That there is part of the problem, the queen shouldn't default be leading assaults and xenos counting on her AoE long-recharge, 250 plasma stun attack. Assault-queens that often go into combat take the risks of dying. This is their fault, and really an earned downside to having her die would be lack of xeno-comms.

Queens are not there for you to lead charges. This is bad form/habit on part of the xeno players and this seems a good work to help limit that tendency. As for them NEEDING communication in order to choose a new queen, that is also entirely on them. Given you need a drone to make the new queen, if you don't have at least one in case of queens death, then that is their fault for not planning for that eventuality with a single drone minimum. Them arguing, not having a drone, or whatever during the interim is par the course for what happens when your HIVEMINDs head honcho gets itself killed by trying to spearhead a charge despite being slow as a tractor.

I am fond of this change because, frankly I was trying to think of a way to nerf the queen/her abused Roar for a bit, and this seems like a good way without directly nerfing the queen herself. So definitely approving.

The queen's roar isn't "abused" any more than marines abuse rifles or shotguns, turrets and grills. It's part of her kit.

You're right that it's risky to have the queen on the front lines, but there are already enough downsides to queens fighting and roaring. A queen who is fighting is not building or laying eggs, and has a huge target on her back already.

If queens (who are already extremely difficult to play well compared to any other player in the game) are to be made riskier to play, then the queen needs an advantage to compensate.

Options would be:
-Faster movement
-Faster plasma generation
-Stronger armor from the front

[Dyne]

Queen has all the advantages she needs.
One thing some alium players dont understand is they need teamwork, especially higher slower tiers.

Queen is not difficult to play, at all.

[Toroic]

Queen has all the advantages she needs.
One thing some alium players dont understand is they need teamwork, especially higher slower tiers.

Queen is not difficult to play, at all.

I could talk about how the wiki and general consensus disagree with you, or I could talk about the many different roles that a queen needs to do well (commanding xeno team, directing building efforts, knowing when to allow/disallow slashing, etc etc) but it all boils down to:

You are objectively wrong. Playing as the queen is more complex and risky than playing as any other caste or any individual marine.

[Dyne]

If you want to compare with marines- compare with an SL, who needs to fight and herd 3-8 cats.
Or compare to a CO, who herds 40 cats.

Playing a Queen isnt risky at all, unless you take the risks on yourself.
If you dont want to play a Queen- dont, and if you do- accept responsibilities and know your risks.

Currently a Hive losing a Queen has no disadvantage if enough eggs/jelly were stored, up to a Hive NOT KNOWING a Queen is dead for some time.
My proposal, so far supported by the majority over these months, simply gives a clear sign and some discomfort to the Hive that lost their Queen.

Edit:
A small recent illustration:

ivemind, Ravager (405) hisses, 'It was a trap..'
Hivemind, Carrier (792) hisses, 'WE ARE GOING INTO THE SKY'
Hivemind, Ravager (631) hisses, 'QUEEN CALL BACK THE SHUTTLE'
Hivemind, Spitter (577) hisses, 'YOU FUCKING SLUTS I TOLD YOU!!!!!!!'
Hivemind, Hunter (583) hisses, 'On the bird?'
Hivemind, Hunter (483) hisses, 'Queen dead'
Hivemind, Boiler (353) hisses, 'Our queen is dead'
Hivemind, Hunter (322) hisses, 'WE HAVE NO QUEEN'
Hivemind, Spitter (577) hisses, 'QUEEN IS FUCKING DEAD!!!!'
Hivemind, Ravager (405) hisses, 'Wheres the queen?'
Hivemind, Hunter (583) hisses, 'Dead.'

[Toroic]

If you want to compare with marines- compare with an SL, who needs to fight and herd 3-8 cats.
Or compare to a CO, who herds 40 cats.

Playing a Queen isnt risky at all, unless you take the risks on yourself.
If you dont want to play a Queen- dont, and if you do- accept responsibilities and know your risks.

Currently a Hive losing a Queen has no disadvantage if enough eggs/jelly were stored, up to a Hive NOT KNOWING a Queen is dead for some time.
My proposal, so far supported by the majority over these months, simply gives a clear sign and some discomfort to the Hive that lost their Queen.

SL - kind of like a queen in low pop, except they don't have to build or produce resources

CO - kind of like a queen in high pop, except they don't need to build or lead on the battlefield or produce resources. No CO actually directly commands 40 marines.

Playing a queen is risky because marines know that if they can kill the queen and destroy eggs that xenos will be crippled until another queen evolves, lays eggs, and the eggs develop.

No role is very risky if they hide in the hive all game, but a queen is massively powerful, and her roar is often critical in breaking through marine defences and repelling marine assaults. Not playing a queen to her potential is wasteful, playing her to her potential is risky.

A hive that loses it's queen is at a huge disadvantage. Leadership, rally point, and egg/jelly production is stopped, and the queen can both build and fight, which means even with an oversupply of eggs and jelly she is the single strongest xeno.

When a queen dies a message about it is broadcast in huge red letters, and the queen locator stops working. No hive or person familiar with this game will not notice a queen is dead.

Your suggestion certainly is worth exploring, and making playing the queen to her potential even more high risk/high reward has interesting game implications. However, it is my conclusion that the benefits are outmatched by causing teams saddled with bad queens from the start an even more crippling disadvantage.

[Lostmixup]

When a CO is gone it takes forever to replace one. They can go down onto the battlefield, but it's very risky.

[Dyne]

You do understand this disadvantage kicks in only if the Queen (bad or good) dies?
Good queens die to- be it a miscalculation in attack, a lucky/skillful orbital, or a daring marine counterattack, not to mention an opportunistic Predator.

As an alium player I actually don't see the proposal as a disadvantage in the first place- just a clear sign things go wrong and you have to fall back and (re)organize. Also aliums can still hiss unimpeded, or shout into the Hivemind until understood.

[Toroic]

You do understand this disadvantage kicks in only if the Queen (bad or good) dies?
Good queens die to- be it a miscalculation in attack, a lucky/skillful orbital, or a daring marine counterattack, not to mention an opportunistic Predator.

As an alium player I actually don't see the proposal as a disadvantage in the first place- just a clear sign things go wrong and you have to fall back and (re)organize. Also aliums can still hiss unimpeded, or shout into the Hivemind until understood.

Yes, and with many rounds having 2-3 queens, that leads to quite a few huge windows where xeno communication goes out.

Usually a T3 directs the defensive/offensive measures when a queen goes down. You're expecting xenos to coordinate without comms when marines consider comms going down to be disasterous.

You're of course saying the hivemind should be garbled, not gone, which isn't horrible but I still don't see the benefit. As in, how is it more fun?

[Wesmas]

What is wanted is a punishment for queens charging. What else could it be, because cutting off comms would be very annoying. Reduce plasma recharge rate, reduce atack damage. What else can you think of which would discorrege this kinda action?

[Toroic]

What is wanted is a punishment for queens charging. What else could it be, because cutting off comms would be very annoying. Reduce plasma recharge rate, reduce atack damage. What else can you think of which would discorrege this kinda action?

If you wanted to punish queens dying harsher, you could just extend the cooldown time before a new queen can evolve. Still punishes the hive indirectly due to a lack of a powerful xeno, but at least then a T3 can direct the hive until the queen comes back.

[Jack McIntyre]

So you say it is disastrous for marines to lose comms so technically you would support if they didn't go out? If marines lose a commander or someone who may be leading a assault then usually marines flee because they don't have that person giving them the kick in the ass. Personally I don't see why that shouldn't happen to xenos. Does it suck a lot yes, but it doesn't take away you guys only communication you can still talk to one another, but you will have to wait for a queen. Ever been on the sulaco when comms go out due to a rogue Hunter on the ship or whatever? It basically cripples the marines until they get it fixed because they don't know what is going on planet side. Just my two cents.

[Toroic]

So you say it is disastrous for marines to lose comms so technically you would support if they didn't go out? If marines lose a commander or someone who may be leading a assault then usually marines flee because they don't have that person giving them the kick in the ass. Personally I don't see why that shouldn't happen to xenos. Does it suck a lot yes, but it doesn't take away you guys only communication you can still talk to one another, but you will have to wait for a queen. Ever been on the sulaco when comms go out due to a rogue Hunter on the ship or whatever? It basically cripples the marines until they get it fixed because they don't know what is going on planet side. Just my two cents.

It is disastrous for marines to lose comms, but it really only happens due to marine incompetence (power goes out), metagaming/incompetence (hunter on the ship, either making a beeline for comms or being allowed to screw around on the ship all game), or if the ship is boarded, in which case the marines are supposed to be up shit creek.

There are many games where multiple queens die. Apop said himself that marine comms are a lot more protected.

I don't see why you think it's fair for xenos to get a disadvantage every game simply because marines sometimes get it.

[Tetsip]

This is an amazing idea. It puts Queens a little more on the offensive, acting as mobile communication hubs now. When the Queen dies as well, the disruption of communication gives marines the chance to press an advantage, or a pocket of time where the aliens will be disrupted and slack on their attack possibly, giving marines some recovery time.

+1 for great, sensible idea that would add flavor and strategy to aliens.

[Toroic]

This is an amazing idea. It puts Queens a little more on the offensive, acting as mobile communication hubs now. When the Queen dies as well, the disruption of communication gives marines the chance to press an advantage, or a pocket of time where the aliens will be disrupted and slack on their attack possibly, giving marines some recovery time.

+1 for great, sensible idea that would add flavor and strategy to aliens.

This wouldn't put queens on the offensive, it would have queens sit in the hive all game because dying hurts your team too much.

[xzekezx]

+1, sounds like a good idea.

[apophis775]

This wouldn't put queens on the offensive, it would have queens sit in the hive all game because dying hurts your team too much.

Like they should?

[Toroic]

Like they should?

Bad queens are going to rambo despite it hurting their team. The queen is very powerful offensively, and for assaulting the FOB can contribute to a high risk/high reward situation for both sides. If the queen dies it hurts to lose the single strongest xeno, but with a good egg supply and jelly the team isn't crippled because of one idiot.

[Jack McIntyre]

Sort of like the CO? Just because you like to use the queen for assault doesn't mean there shouldn't be some risk for it. There really is no risk for xenos for queen to assault now if they made sure to stock the hive with eggs and plasma. They lose the queen, but xenos can still keep assaulting, if that was the marine side and the leader gets tagged comms and cooperation goes out the window. You say high risk to high reward, but there is low risk if the queen planned ahead which means it is just helpful to take a queen with due to the screech, which is good in a assault, and basically gives kills if the xenos works together to take out the knocked down marines. I get it, but I still think if there is a risk of marines losing comms over a meta Hunter or xeno on ship and screw up rounds for the marines. Just see this as a way to even the playing field.

[Toroic]

Sort of like the CO? Just because you like to use the queen for assault doesn't mean there shouldn't be some risk for it. There really is no risk for xenos for queen to assault now if they made sure to stock the hive with eggs and plasma. They lose the queen, but xenos can still keep assaulting, if that was the marine side and the leader gets tagged comms and cooperation goes out the window. You say high risk to high reward, but there is low risk if the queen planned ahead which means it is just helpful to take a queen with due to the screech, which is good in a assault, and basically gives kills if the xenos works together to take out the knocked down marines. I get it, but I still think if there is a risk of marines losing comms over a meta Hunter or xeno on ship and screw up rounds for the marines. Just see this as a way to even the playing field.

Given that the current win:loss ratio is 1:1, I don't think any further xeno nerfs are necessary.

[Homer Anderson]

+1 please. If we can lost all organization/good communication when a Squad Leader dies or BO disappear (ssd/afk) why aliens won't? Losing an SL is worse than losing your queen, so i can say that one man (SL) is more valuable than a QUEEN. For all players saying isn't an OK nerf. Try to play at least five rounds as SL without any BO's giving you overwatch. Try to play as a grunt without a SL and you will see the chaos.
Queens need to be defensive, if you want to risk you need big consequences, like we have when marines lost one Squad Leader. (less supplies, less cohesion, less manpower due to lack in his squad communication, etc)

1:1 ratio seems nothing to me. If we need to evac the planet 90% of the rounds, this isn't 1:1 to me. Sorry.

[Toroic]

+1 please. If we can lost all organization/good communication when a Squad Leader dies or BO disappear (ssd/afk) why aliens won't? Losing an SL is worse than losing your queen, so i can say that one man (SL) is more valuable than a QUEEN. For all players saying isn't an OK nerf. Try to play at least five rounds as SL without any BO's giving you overwatch. Try to play as a grunt without a SL and you will see the chaos.
Queens need to be defensive, if you want to risk you need big consequences, like we have when marines lost one Squad Leader. (less supplies, less cohesion, less manpower due to lack in his squad communication, etc)

1:1 ratio seems nothing to me. If we need to evac the planet 90% of the rounds, this isn't 1:1 to me. Sorry.

I don't even know where to begin with this.

SL's are nowhere near as valuable as the queen. As far as the win ratio, Marines would win the majority of the time if there wasn't drama, constantly incompetent grunts and command staff, and a general lack of following orders. If marines followed orders half as well as xenos they'd win 2/3rds of the time.

SL's should be designating a secondary in the event they are killed or captured, it is just common sense.

As far as evac'ing the planet, I've seen marines evac outnumbering the remaining xenos 4:1 or more. The order to evac is often given by incompetent command staff, and is not related to win rates. I've even seen marines say they prefer to have the fighting lead to a desperate escape from the Sulaco, instead of winning on the ground.

I've seen a better effort towards securing the FOB, but there are still many rounds where little to no effort is made leading to a hasty retreat.

Marines just got a huge buff in weapon damage, and the win ratio is finally 1:1, despite rampant marine mutiny and chucklefuckery. Yet all the recent suggestions have either been further marine buffs or xeno nerfs.

[Dyne]

Even with a aSL apponted losing the original SL is a big blow to the squad.
And yes, marines often "win" after evaccing, so its more akin to losing in my book.

This proposal is hardly a nerf, and hardly recent.

[Homer Anderson]

SL's are nowhere near as valuable as the queen. As far as the win ratio, Marines would win the majority of the time if there wasn't drama, constantly incompetent grunts and command staff, and a general lack of following orders. If marines followed orders half as well as xenos they'd win 2/3rds of the time.

That's what I said. They should not be anywhere near as valuable as a queen, but losing a squad leader is 1000x worse than losing a queen. Don't trust me? play more as marine and you will see.
To replace a SL you need: equipment, experienced marine, one RE to order things, time to get equipment, time to organize squad with new leader, one active BO to change ID card and comunicate squad.
To replace a queen you need: a... drone

Arguments based on win ratio is all theory, buddy. Marines depends too much on good players/CO's/BO's. Aliens are much less affected by the incompetence of players. A single bastard marine can fuck with everyone round. (like Bill Carson last night lol)

Sorry for my bad English, isn't my first language...still learning.

[Toroic]

Even with a aSL apponted losing the original SL is a big blow to the squad.
And yes, marines often "win" after evaccing, so its more akin to losing in my book.

This proposal is hardly a nerf, and hardly recent.

The win conditons are well-defined.

Major wins are achieved by eliminating the opposing team, minor xeno win is achieved by marines using the escape shuttle.

Evacuating the surface is not relevant. What is in "your book" has no bearing.

There is nothing you can interpret this as, besides a nerf. That is not in question, nor is it important.

What is important is: "Would this nerf improve balance or gameplay?"

I haven't seen an argument that suggests it would, only "this is more lore appropiate" or "this is more similar to marines" (It isn't, and the goal with assymetric gameplay is balanced different teams.)

If the win ratio still favored xenos, this would make sense. Given the win ratio is 1:1, I don't think nerfs on either side are warranted.