Disallow intentional breaching of the Sulaco

[ParadoxSpace]

Except normally marines put up the 9000 miles of electric grilles and girders and fake walls when the 'queen used shuttle' red alert first happens

[MrGabol100]

Except normally marines put up the 9000 miles of electric grilles and girders and fake walls when the 'queen used shuttle' red alert first happens

Can't put enough for the time the queen is on the sulaco, also, after hangar battle aliens tend to just hang on the hangar until they think, let's go up there, and they usually resort to breaching then because marines built good defenses, all because instead of doing it in one motion, they take 40 mins on the hangar.

[Mitchs98]

Can't put enough for the time the queen is on the sulaco, also, after hangar battle aliens tend to just hang on the hangar until they think, let's go up there, and they usually resort to breaching then because marines built good defenses, all because instead of doing it in one motion, they take 40 mins on the hangar.

This is true, this is also a good time to play shuttle ping pong as it were because some like to camp the dropship itself for half the time. Then aliens, of course, rage when shuttle ping pong is used against them.

And no, it's not powergaming, it's called common sense and actual strategy. It DOES take good co-ordination fr shuttle ping pong to work.

[Toroic]

I don't really care much about electrified grills. What I care about are bombs that destroy everything and everyone in a 5 tile radius, such as what happened last night.

If marines are allowed to breach with bombs and explosives, then aliens are allowed to breach with acid.

Also, it is perfectly reasonable to have xenos breach, because they don't have an understanding of space or the effects on the hosts.


I'm fine with both sides breaching, but I see absolutely no reason to tell xenos not to breach but not ban marines for using tile destroying weapons on the ship.

[Mitchs98]

I don't really care much about electrified grills. What I care about are bombs that destroy everything and everyone in a 5 tile radius, such as what happened last night.

If marines are allowed to breach with bombs and explosives, then aliens are allowed to breach with acid.

Also, it is perfectly reasonable to have xenos breach, because they don't have an understanding of space or the effects on the hosts.


I'm fine with both sides breaching, but I see absolutely no reason to tell xenos not to breach but not ban marines for using tile destroying weapons on the ship.

I'd be completely fine for punishing marines for using the SADAR and custom HE grenades on the Sulaco. I have just as much salt and rage for those people as I do aliens breaching. And no, it makes no sense for aliens to breach. I don't recall them intentionally breaching in the films, at least to my knowledge.

It is literally nothing but a crappy tactic that causes lag and rage and is ONLY fun for the alien side because they get next to no penalty for it.

[Toroic]

I'd be completely fine for punishing marines for using the SADAR and custom HE grenades on the Sulaco. I have just as much salt and rage for those people as I do aliens breaching. And no, it makes no sense for aliens to breach. I don't recall them intentionally breaching in the films, at least to my knowledge.

It is literally nothing but a crappy tactic that causes lag and rage and is ONLY fun for the alien side because they get next to no penalty for it.

Dissolving an alternative route when they're blocked is absolutely a reasonable thing for aliens to do, and on the surface they'll just find another tunnel or end up outside the caves. If they can't go through an obstacle, they'll dissolve around it. For creatures that have never been exposed to spaceflight, it's a reasonable response.

As far as deviating from the films, we've already taken massive liberties with combining different varieties of xeno that were never all found in the same hive, as well as the alien weeds. Hivelord as a caste never appeared in a film, and you'd never find red and black xenos working together.


I don't like when xenos breach the Sulaco, and it never forms part of my strategy when I play xeno. However, every round I've seen where xenos didn't breach, marines did, often times with a bluespace grenade that destroyed either half the hanger or the majority of the ladder room, insta-gibbing every xeno.

For example, last night there were two hosts in the ladder room, and a PAI because it was low pop and a lot of idiot xeno players were about. A host got free, I clicked repeatedly to tackle with no apparent effect, and then a few seconds of lag and everything in a 5 tile diameter was open space, destroying all but 3 of the ladders and killing multiple xeno, including the queen.

Xenos were playing fair, not putting hosts in pain crit or breaching the walls, and had a 1:1 ratio, with me one tile from the nests.


I'm at the point where I have two options:

1) I can not abuse every resource at my disposal to win, and get screwed by plasma bombs, superheated air (killed 4 xenos the game earlier), and bluespace grenades, emitters at ladders, 6 second suicides after breaking out of a nest, electrified grills with turrets behind them, etc.

I'm not saying that all of those are unfair, but they all represent difficult obstacles for xenos.

2) I can abuse pain crit, crippling, and breaching to make things less fun for marines, but easier and safer for myself.


I don't like either option, but without a rule change (and banning breaching the Sulaco on both sides I would agree to, as that would prevent HE bombs.) those are literally the only two options.

[Mitchs98]

As I said, I'm all for dissallowing things that'd breach or tamper with atmos altogether, as well as removing grilles to shoot through. We did JUST fine without them in the past, we can do just as well now. I'm even fine with removing electric grilles. ANYTHING is better than breaching at this point, almost anyway. It has gotten so bad from both sides I just want the atmos fuckery to end in some shape or form, I'm open to almost anything at this point.

A LOT of it will be solved when SADARS are removed in a few days as well.

[Allan1234]

Speedy asked me to post this for her so here.

[1:55:24 PM] SpeedyBst|K. Brown|Hunter Pogona: Right, wall of text inbound
[1:55:34 PM] SpeedyBst|K. Brown|Hunter Pogona: Personally, I can see it from both point of view - some defense are reminiscent of the old Sulaco that wasn't breachable at all, and so prevent the xenos from moving at all, leaving them with the option of melting and breaching, or charging headlong into walls of massed fire. Obviously, when given that option, no player would willingly choose the pointless and unsatisfying option, and so resort to the next option avaliable. Recall as well that we had to remove defense being built directly into the hanger because of the insta-kill tactics that the marines we utilizing to massacre the shuttle upon arrival. Now, at the time, marines saw no issue with this at all, citing it as a completely valid IC tactic and essentially telling the xenos to 'git gud' whenever they complained about it, similar to what is happening here from many of the xeno players in this discussion. After witnessing one of the Bluespace grenades last night, and the total annihilation that caused in the hangerbay, i'm almost inclined to join those saying to suck it up, since that one grenade turned all of the lower deck into Xeno land permanently, without any help from the xenos. Honestly, if the marines wish to complain about intentional breaching, perhaps you should cut back on it just a tad yourselfs, because unfortunately I'm finding it tough to sympathize when you do. Yes, I am aware that explosives are some of the only things that can take down T3 xenos, so that is something that would possibly effect the balance were this to be changed, since you'll be removing the use of explosives aboard the ship. I imagine that there might be more complaints about that, as well as last-ditch use of explosives leading to bans, even though it was the only option in the situation. Conclusively, I'm seeing pros and cons to both sides from what has been put forth in here, and would be in favour of a change to the rules, but am aware this could cause a ripple effect to some other areas of the gameplay, possibly with unintended effects.

Verily, I am giving this my dubious support.

[Toroic]

I think being able to use explosives freely on the surface encourages marines to work harder to hold it.

They have plenty of non-explosive sulaco defence options.

[Mac]

On the Sulaco, breaching only hurts the marines. So when the marines do it of their own accord they hurt themselves. When the aliens do it, they give themselves a huge boost and win. It's a benefit to the aliens only. If the marines want to use explosives and hinder themselves, that on them. If the aliens breach, it's "welp time to die due to limited vacuum gear."

[northcote4]

Just a thought here, but what if the Sulaco had 'breach shutters' of some description? Basically like the emergency shutters that fall down when atmos sensors detect bad air, but around the outside of the ship (possibly unacidable).

That way, window/wall acid to space wouldn't screw over marines COMPLETELY, but explosive-breaches still would, leaving marines to stew in their own muck if they decide to fire a rocket on the Sulaco, for example.

[Toroic]

On the Sulaco, breaching only hurts the marines. So when the marines do it of their own accord they hurt themselves. When the aliens do it, they give themselves a huge boost and win. It's a benefit to the aliens only. If the marines want to use explosives and hinder themselves, that on them. If the aliens breach, it's "welp time to die due to limited vacuum gear."

This is demonstrably untrue.

spacewind is devastating to both sides, and it absolutely has screwed over xenos in the past to be constantly knocked down.

Yes, it is near impossible for marines to retake the hanger if breached, but how many games would that happen anyway?

Breaching is almost always bad for marines, and sometimes bad for xenos, costing them hosts on the ship.

[Dyne]

Breaching is almost always bad for marines, and sometimes bad for xenos, costing them hosts on the ship.

Psst. Xenos dont breathe.

[Seehund]

Psst. Xenos dont breathe.

They need the hosts, silly.
Or rather, they would.
But I mean fuck lore eh

[Toroic]

They need the hosts, silly.
Or rather, they would.
But I mean fuck lore eh

Spacewind is a bitch, and having spare hosts on the ship is very helpful. No air means they die and again, spacewind can be a huge problem. Not being able to breathe is handy, but there are secondary issues.

[Dyne]

If you are in final killmode alive hosts dont matter much, as we all know.

[apophis775]

Semi-accepted. I'm going to be adding an outer layer of protection to the Sulaco. It will be breachable still, HOWEVER, it will be VERY EASY to prevent, more difficult to do, and will have nearly no effect if the marines properly set up atmospherics.

[Arachnidnexus]

So yeah, I get that intentional breaching is used to bypass absurd defenses, but currently I'm not seeing the rules stop such blatant bs such as this:



I want to point out that the drone in this case melted only the exterior doors, melted all the EVA gear in EVA and then opened the resin doors when actually cornered.

[Azmodan412]

So yeah, I get that intentional breaching is used to bypass absurd defenses, but currently I'm not seeing the rules stop such blatant bs such as this:



I want to point out that the drone in this case melted only the exterior doors, melted all the EVA gear in EVA and then opened the resin doors when actually cornered.

Cheap move, but kind of hilarious on the Xeno side. But... I am remaining neutral because one round I was queenie or carrier, a 5x10-12 hole was ripped on the other side of the derpship by marines and I just... I sat at my computer and face-palmed. I am highly FOR banning explosives aboard the Sulaco, and no more freaking wheatfields of e-grilles. I don't even know HOW TO MAKE THEM, and if I did, sparing supply.

[Toroic]

Cheap move, but kind of hilarious on the Xeno side. But... I am remaining neutral because one round I was queenie or carrier, a 5x10-12 hole was ripped on the other side of the derpship by marines and I just... I sat at my computer and face-palmed. I am highly FOR banning explosives aboard the Sulaco, and no more freaking wheatfields of e-grilles. I don't even know HOW TO MAKE THEM, and if I did, sparing supply.

Electrified grills are just grills with wire underneath. Piece of cake to make.

They're also pretty easy to take down with acid, and hard to set up to significant levels on the sulaco.

The main mistake I see (and have made) by xeno team is not taking over the upper deck aggressively. Once marines have put emitters on many of the ladders it becomes a bitch to get past their defenses.

However, if xeno team is good they quickly get off the ship and then get a toehold upstairs. At that point it is just search and destroy.

[forwardslashN]

This has been a thing for a while. Locking.