Current Alien/Marine victory ratio over ~1 week

[Telegnats]

Fantastic reply 10/10

[GGgobbleCC]

Fantastic reply 10/10

Thank you, I do my best to only report the truth

[ZDashe]

Well, in order to gun down aliens and really enjoy it, there must be some level of difficulty. If the antagonists (Xenos) don't pose a challenge, it's hardly as satisfying anyway. Besides, if it's unbalanced, nobody would want to be playing on the other team. (Actually people already don't like to join Xenos..)

► Show Spoiler

autistic runner.png

Then before you know it, other marines killed all the aliums before you even have a chance to kill one yourself..

[Reznoriam]

Reading through some of the opinions (though I will readily admit I haven't read every post in the thread since there's 103 of them at this moment) I'd like to play a slight devil's advocate role.

Let's start from the issue. Marines retreat to the Sulaco and create the mega-turtle fort. Aliens come up and get eradicated by the insane kill zone. Plasteel barricades, electric grills, emitters, and such just make for a generally high degree of difficulty in an assault scenario. So therefore I would like to present the following potential solution to spur ideas or perhaps provide a solution.

The first idea is that instead of making general travel more difficult we introduce more rapid transport, but only for one or two marines at a time. For instance, some kind of small personal drop pod to send up wounded or marines who need to resupply. This would be much quicker, and would allow marines to travel without needing command intervention. This would allow the marines on the surface to stay healthier and more supplied, reducing the pressure to undergo a general retreat. This idea would probably be the least successful, I think. Another variant of this idea would be that the rapid transport system is available to send things up, but not down. One issue though, it's lethal to marines so only dead bodies or critical patients in stasis bags can actually survive the trip.

One of the issues pointed out earlier was the fact that aliens grow stronger over time while marines naturally grow weaker. A potential solution to this would be adding greater capacity for fortifications. Some examples would be building advanced scanners for surgeons, implementing a disposal transport system to the Sulaco to allow supplies from other departments to be routed to cargo for supply drop delivery, permanent or semi-permanent supply beacons which don't need a squad leader to keep dropping them repeatedly, or other things along those lines.

The last idea would likely be harder to implement, but might be the most successful by means of dangling a carrot in front of marines. A pay system is implemented, with marines getting combat pay added to their bank accounts while on the planet. Back on the Sulaco they could use this money to buy equipment, restricted gear, or bling (gas masks, uniforms, or other cosmetic items). For instance, perhaps the marine obsessed with barrel chargers can purchase some. Cargo might be able to have a vendor with balances so marines can vend out some crap. Additionally this could be leveraged in other ways. For instance, the closer to your squad leader you are the more money you make. Command staff could issue bonuses to exceptional soldiers. The corporate liaison would be able to be that much more of a backstabbing bastard when bribes offered to marines have some real value...

[Wickedtemp]

I thought it was balanced so marines win the majority of the time? The majority of the dev team+admins play marines almost exclusively and looking at the change log just screams "Play marines unless you are a masochist"

As an exclusive marine player I enjoy mindless firing down a hallway with my giant magazine and killing hapless aliens in 2-3 good hits. The server is named Colonial Marines not Ayyliens. So I see the massive marine favoritism as a plus.

Try being the "hapless alien". Its especially bad on the prison map with those long hallways where you can be killed by a marine randomly shooting several screens away.

[qsleepy]

[/quote]

Try being the "hapless alien". Its especially bad on the prison map with those long hallways where you can be killed by a marine randomly shooting several screens away.[/quote]


That's what the prison cells are for, dawg. Gotta prep better.

[qsleepy]

Also, I think the rounds have been very well balanced. I play 2 rounds a day.

[GGgobbleCC]

Reading through some of the opinions (though I will readily admit I haven't read every post in the thread since there's 103 of them at this moment) I'd like to play a slight devil's advocate role.

Let's start from the issue. Marines retreat to the Sulaco and create the mega-turtle fort. Aliens come up and get eradicated by the insane kill zone. Plasteel barricades, electric grills, emitters, and such just make for a generally high degree of difficulty in an assault scenario. So therefore I would like to present the following potential solution to spur ideas or perhaps provide a solution.

The first idea is that instead of making general travel more difficult we introduce more rapid transport, but only for one or two marines at a time. For instance, some kind of small personal drop pod to send up wounded or marines who need to resupply. This would be much quicker, and would allow marines to travel without needing command intervention. This would allow the marines on the surface to stay healthier and more supplied, reducing the pressure to undergo a general retreat. This idea would probably be the least successful, I think. Another variant of this idea would be that the rapid transport system is available to send things up, but not down. One issue though, it's lethal to marines so only dead bodies or critical patients in stasis bags can actually survive the trip.

One of the issues pointed out earlier was the fact that aliens grow stronger over time while marines naturally grow weaker. A potential solution to this would be adding greater capacity for fortifications. Some examples would be building advanced scanners for surgeons, implementing a disposal transport system to the Sulaco to allow supplies from other departments to be routed to cargo for supply drop delivery, permanent or semi-permanent supply beacons which don't need a squad leader to keep dropping them repeatedly, or other things along those lines.

The last idea would likely be harder to implement, but might be the most successful by means of dangling a carrot in front of marines. A pay system is implemented, with marines getting combat pay added to their bank accounts while on the planet. Back on the Sulaco they could use this money to buy equipment, restricted gear, or bling (gas masks, uniforms, or other cosmetic items). For instance, perhaps the marine obsessed with barrel chargers can purchase some. Cargo might be able to have a vendor with balances so marines can vend out some crap. Additionally this could be leveraged in other ways. For instance, the closer to your squad leader you are the more money you make. Command staff could issue bonuses to exceptional soldiers. The corporate liaison would be able to be that much more of a backstabbing bastard when bribes offered to marines have some real value...

They don't get weaker over time, they stay at an even strength the whole match. This is due to things like late-joins and cloning

[Davidchan]

They don't get weaker over time, they stay at an even strength the whole match. This is due to things like late-joins and cloning

Actually... that's entirely untrue.

Marines start out at peak efficiency and deteriorate the longer the match goes on. Ammo, Armor, Weapons, Building materials are all in a limited supply, even with an active cargo there is only so much the Marines can do to recover losses.

Compare this to Xenos, where the only limited resource they have is hosts, which they have ample supply of if they even bothered to gather the early round monkeys and actually trying to take marines alive.

Cloning is practically non-existent and is solely for Marine players who refuse to play Xenos but hope to get back into the round.

Xenos can't resurrect fallen warriors, true, but as long as they infect one host for every Xeno that dies, it's not big of deal, and quite often the Xenos will infect entire squads in sloppy hive assaults.

Late joiners rarely mean much as they are always standard marines. If the SL or Specialist dies, you can rarely get that gear back and there is no way to replenish it if the Xenos spray acid on dropped speciality gear (spoiler, they always do.) To add to this, many late-joiners find it difficult to outright impossible to link up with their squads, and are stuck mixing with other squads while the public comm channel becomes a mess of people screaming the most vague orders or requests for help.

Aliens, on the other hand, every single Xeno can and in some cases WILL become a T3 Xeno if they are patient and cautious enough, there is no hard limit and the death of a T3 doesn't in anyway preclude this.

To make this even worse, as Officers, SLs and MPs die or just go SSD, the marines lose the ability to control the shuttle by the very nature that none of them have access, I've seen quite a few marines get cut down because they were stranded on the Planet or Prison without reinforcements even though there were plenty of marines on the Sulaco ready to go.


The cold hard fact is that unless there is a massive flow of late-joiners in the prime time, the marines are never going to be strong as they were at round start and the longer the round drags on the worse off they become, which is why you always find the Marines retreating back to the Sulaco at the 13:30-14:00 marks because most losses in the first wave are literally irreplaceable.

[GGgobbleCC]

Ammo, Armor, Weapons, Building materials are all in a limited supply, even with an active cargo there is only so much the Marines can do to recover losses.
Now who is being un-true? The vending machines have more ammo and armor than a 100+ active marine server could ever use. Building matierals maybe, but that doesn't seem to matter when the aliums needs to rush the hanger and the whole thing is covered in tables, electric grilles, and etc

Compare this to Xenos, where the only limited resource they have is hosts, which they have ample supply of if they even bothered to gather the early round monkeys and actually trying to take marines alive.
'Ample' supply of something that shoots back. You can only really catch the dumb ones before they bum-rush the hive and tear down the paper thing walls and xenos guarding in a hail of bullets and SADAR

Cloning is practically non-existent and is solely for Marine players who refuse to play Xenos but hope to get back into the round.
Less than true, a good medbay can bring back a marine who has died multiple times. Shoot a few shots near a xeno and drag your buddy to the shuttle. He'll be back in 5 minutes top where if you want to play as a larva you have to wait upwards of 20.

as long as they infect one host for every Xeno that dies, it's not big of deal, and quite often the Xenos will infect entire squads in sloppy hive assaults.
Except if you lost all your T3s and queen in an assualt and have to wait for a new queen, and wait the fucking ages it takes to evolve and the few people you caught to pop. A fresh join/cloned marine is worth multiple t1s

Late joiners rarely mean much as they are always standard marines. If the SL or Specialist dies, you can rarely get that gear back and there is no way to replenish it if the Xenos spray acid on dropped speciality gear (spoiler, they always do.) To add to this, many late-joiners find it difficult to outright impossible to link up with their squads, and are stuck mixing with other squads while the public comm channel becomes a mess of people screaming the most vague orders or requests for help.

Ok this is outright bullshit, a late joiner can hop into the armory, full gear up and go out and easily pop multiple xenos with how over-stated weapons are(spoilers I've done it). They can't use the fancy specialist stuff? Well the standard rifle is pretty much just as effective a murder. Marines join in constant steams for the whole round, I've joined a 5 hour round as a marine. The admins never turn it off.

Aliens, on the other hand, every single Xeno can and in some cases WILL become a T3 Xeno if they are patient and cautious enough, there is no hard limit and the death of a T3 doesn't in anyway preclude this.

The only reliable way to get to t3 is wait 30minutes and hide in the hive, leaving puts you at the very real risk of getting ambushed and over-run. Spoilers, anyone who isn't a runner is slow as all fuck.

[/u]
To make this even worse, as Officers, SLs and MPs die or just go SSD, the marines lose the ability to control the shuttle by the very nature that none of them have access, I've seen quite a few marines get cut down because they were stranded on the Planet or Prison without reinforcements even though there were plenty of marines on the Sulaco ready to go. Oh no, the people in charge most people don't listen to anyway buggered off. Guess I'll just continue to murder the aliens! Also reinforcements are cloning and will join in a few minutes +late joins. The stream is much more steady than you give it credit.


The cold hard fact is that unless there is a massive flow of late-joiners in the prime time, the marines are never going to be strong as they were at round start and the longer the round drags on the worse off they become, which is why you always find the Marines retreating back to the Sulaco at the 13:30-14:00 marks because most losses in the first wave are literally irreplaceable. They retreat back because turtling is the best way to win as marines, the aliens have to attack the heavily defended ship to get a major victory, and people are still joining through out that, infact the only time I've not seen people getting cloned is when the ayylmaos hit medbay and at no point before that.

[Telegnats]

Marine dispensers have gone dry several times. Uncommon, but it happens. A good Medbay operated by active doctors isn't exactly reliable, marine late joins have been disabled several times, usually after the aliens board the Sulaco. Plenty of marines rely on Command and SLs to operate effectively on the planet. Without them, communication to and from is difficult. The only way you haven't seen people being cloned is if you haven't been watching. Corpses regularly sit outside Research, never to be cloned.

[Davidchan]

Ammo, Armor, Weapons, Building materials are all in a limited supply, even with an active cargo there is only so much the Marines can do to recover losses.
Now who is being un-true? The vending machines have more ammo and armor than a 100+ active marine server could ever use. Building matierals maybe, but that doesn't seem to matter when the aliums needs to rush the hanger and the whole thing is covered in tables, electric grilles, and etc

I've seen vending machines go dry lots of time, especially on high pop games that Xenos with the most, Rifles are left abondoned in the field after being hugged, disarmed, pounced or anything else and the Xenos instantly will acid the weapon, in many cases I've seen drones and spitters prioritize weapon destruction over host infection and capture. Doubly so if the weapon has obvious mods on it like a Bayonet or Charger. Couple this with some Marines deciding that they need two rifles, and as much ammo as they can shove in, and those 13 dispensers will dry up of anything useful leaving nothing but pistols and smgs and throwing knives for the final stand. It happens a lot more than you're willing to admit, or you never play high pop rounds.

Compare this to Xenos, where the only limited resource they have is hosts, which they have ample supply of if they even bothered to gather the early round monkeys and actually trying to take marines alive.
'Ample' supply of something that shoots back. You can only really catch the dumb ones before they bum-rush the hive and tear down the paper thing walls and xenos guarding in a hail of bullets and SADAR

The average marine can and often is easily infested, at least half the player base can be goaded into running off alone or in small groups of 2 or 3 at the mere suggestion of something to kill. Once carriers get into play, entire fireteams of 4 or more can be infested at once. And, so long as the wounds are fatal all a Xeno needs to is chill out on some weeds for 30 seconds and they are back to full health. No broken bones, no internal injuries, no need for a 10 minute ferry ride back to homebase ontop of a 15 minute operation just to make them combat ready again.

Cloning is practically non-existent and is solely for Marine players who refuse to play Xenos but hope to get back into the round.
Less than true, a good medbay can bring back a marine who has died multiple times. Shoot a few shots near a xeno and drag your buddy to the shuttle. He'll be back in 5 minutes top where if you want to play as a larva you have to wait upwards of 20.

Have you ever observed a round? I've seen people wait over 20 minutes just to get scanned, only for the medical staff to realize they are out of biomass and take another 30 minutes to come up with enough meat steaks just to get two more people cloned. Most people have to wait longer, if ever, to get back into the game as a marine. Add ontop of it a the rules forbid non-medical staff from even running the cloner, the odds of getting cloned in a round are lower than the odds of being the pizza delivery guy.

as long as they infect one host for every Xeno that dies, it's not big of deal, and quite often the Xenos will infect entire squads in sloppy hive assaults.
Except if you lost all your T3s and queen in an assault and have to wait for a new queen, and wait the fucking ages it takes to evolve and the few people you caught to pop. A fresh join/cloned marine is worth multiple t1s

And? A single drone can recreate everything, they just need time, which they have in spades. Xenos commonly don't leave the hive for 20-30 minutes at a time anyways, Queens willfully stopping the hunt and expansion just so they can field their best troops. Any time a Xeno bitches that about hangar defenses is proof of this, because they trigger the console and then wait another 10 minutes to even move the shuttle once.

Late joiners rarely mean much as they are always standard marines. If the SL or Specialist dies, you can rarely get that gear back and there is no way to replenish it if the Xenos spray acid on dropped speciality gear (spoiler, they always do.) To add to this, many late-joiners find it difficult to outright impossible to link up with their squads, and are stuck mixing with other squads while the public comm channel becomes a mess of people screaming the most vague orders or requests for help.

Ok this is outright bullshit, a late joiner can hop into the armory, full gear up and go out and easily pop multiple xenos with how over-stated weapons are(spoilers I've done it). They can't use the fancy specialist stuff? Well the standard rifle is pretty much just as effective a murder. Marines join in constant steams for the whole round, I've joined a 5 hour round as a marine. The admins never turn it off.

Admins never turn it off because late joiners are often easy prey for Xenos and legal prey too. It's become disturbingly common for Xenos to set up shop in the canteen and infect new comers for easy larva, and if there aren't any Xenos on the Sulaco the late-joiner is often scrapping the bottom of the barrel in terms of weapons, if they get any weapon attachments they should consider themselves lucky, and if you joined 4 hours into the match I hope you like everything dark, broken and nobody telling you whats going on. Sure, the rare occasion a marine can get their gear and pod down to the surface or prison ship to link up with a long lasting FOB, but if 3 hours into the match the Xenos haven't pushed the marines back to the Sulaco, odds are its because they have been suiciding too much and using their abilities to break the FOB and scatter the marines.

Aliens, on the other hand, every single Xeno can and in some cases WILL become a T3 Xeno if they are patient and cautious enough, there is no hard limit and the death of a T3 doesn't in anyway preclude this.

The only reliable way to get to t3 is wait 30minutes and hide in the hive, leaving puts you at the very real risk of getting ambushed and over-run. Spoilers, anyone who isn't a runner is slow as all fuck.

You've admitted yourself that 5 hour rounds are common, and several Xeno players have fond stories of the time they rose to T3 two or three times in a single round, scoring over a dozen kills or infections each time and taking half a dozen marines to put them down. Marines get one life, maybe two if Doctors and Medics are on point, but given the nerfs over the months to demote combat medics from miracle workers to pain pill prescribers its rarer and rarer for a Marine to get critically wounded on the planet and actually be revived and put back into the fight without cutting at least 30 minutes of his round out to go back to the Sulaco to be taped back together.

[/u]To make this even worse, as Officers, SLs and MPs die or just go SSD, the marines lose the ability to control the shuttle by the very nature that none of them have access, I've seen quite a few marines get cut down because they were stranded on the Planet or Prison without reinforcements even though there were plenty of marines on the Sulaco ready to go. Oh no, the people in charge most people don't listen to anyway buggered off. Guess I'll just continue to murder the aliens! Also reinforcements are cloning and will join in a few minutes +late joins. The stream is much more steady than you give it credit.

Marines NEED someone with access to move the shuttles, call reinforcements or make resupply drops happen. If the Queen goes SSD, a drone can just molt into a new one and the round moves without much problem. If the CO/XO/BOs go SSD or get themselves killed... well hope you didn't actually want to use those artillery strikes, cargo supply drops, make any use of the drop pod or have anything resembling an efficient and orderly method to get troops where they need to be.

The cold hard fact is that unless there is a massive flow of late-joiners in the prime time, the marines are never going to be strong as they were at round start and the longer the round drags on the worse off they become, which is why you always find the Marines retreating back to the Sulaco at the 13:30-14:00 marks because most losses in the first wave are literally irreplaceable. They retreat back because turtling is the best way to win as marines, the aliens have to attack the heavily defended ship to get a major victory, and people are still joining through out that, infact the only time I've not seen people getting cloned is when the ayylmaos hit medbay and at no point before that.

Turtling is infact the worst way for marines to win. They need to push hard and aggressive when they can and how they can. Xenos have time, the longer Xenos wait the stronger their troops get, the larger their hives get without any limit, the more eggs and jelly the queen can make. Marines quite literally loose many of the rounds because they opt to stay in the safety of the FOB and wait for the Xenos to come to them, when quite often the Admins will berate the marines after they get slaughter that 40 marines were hiding in the Nexus when only 8 Xenos were alive and a handful of huggers. Turtling only delays the inevitable for marines, because sooner or later they will run out of ammo, power, helmets, heavy ordinance or who ever is in charge just losing their Nerve and abandoning the only foothold they have. Hangar defenses only work because the Sulaco design is terrible and people have been wanting the exfil points spread out further like they are on the planet for months now.

[Reznoriam]

Could we get metrics based on time of day or total server population?

[qsleepy]

Honestly the minute you get more capable xeno's people are going to start bitching. I've played at least 4 rounds with really good xenos opposing me and it felt like being man-handled completely.


We'll see how it evolves!

[Sanchez13]

>inb4 bitching

Although it's alright if the staff may be busy, can we please have the win/loss ratio for this week? I'm personally concerned about reports of Xenos causing a major much more often than the Marines due to the speed/damage boosts and the Nexus nerf. It's alright if you guys are unable or unwilling to do so, it's just that for the several consecutive rounds I've played in the past few days, the aliums appear to have utterly CRUSHED the marines, even in spite of constant pressure by us. Then again, that may be just be sheer unluckiness or usual incompetence on the marine's side, though I would greatly appreciate it if it were given to us. Thanks.

[Steelpoint]

We should do what /tg/ does in that round stats are posted on a automatic system and are updated every month, this makes it easy to see how the win/lose rates of each round type goes, it also shows other misc data such as job popularity or items bought by antagonists. Might be useful in seeing, for example, what are the most popular Spec items or which jobs are most popular, or what xeno's are most popular.

[Sanchez13]

We should do what /tg/ does in that round stats are posted on a automatic system and are updated every month, this makes it easy to see how the win/lose rates of each round type goes, it also shows other misc data such as job popularity or items bought by antagonists. Might be useful in seeing, for example, what are the most popular Spec items or which jobs are most popular, or what xeno's are most popular.

I personally concur and condone such a notion. It would assist in augmenting the quality of suggestions, as well as give both the dev team and players more input on both the direction and competitive balance within the game. Do you wish to start such a suggestion, Steelpoint?

[Fritigern]

I've had the week off work and I've spent a looot of time on the server this week (Damn I'm a nerd). I've seen 2-3 marine major victories all week, with probably a cumulative 20 or so alien majors, all at peak hours. I'd really like to see the metric for the week because I feel like I'm right on the money, there.

Why do I think it's happening? Well I think the aliens are getting better at coaching their queens and working together, so much so that the underlying imbalances of the xenos are starting to shine through, whereas they were likely less obvious before this due to a combination of low alien pop and bad players.

Every hive these days is just a thousand eggs strewn from the entrance to the heart of the alien base. Marines could never, ever deal with that, not with half them hidden under resin doors or packed into choke points. You'd spend more ammunition shooting eggs to deal with the teleporting facehuggers than you would shooting at the aliens, and flame units are just as ineffective. Why? Because the aliens are fighting you the entire time. All they have to do is slow you down long enough for the carriers and the facehuggers to take their toll, breaking skulls and wearing the medics thin, and then they can easily bum rush a group of 20 marines with chargers and ravagers and the fight is over.

Facehuggers are the absolute best weapon in the game right now (Damn where's my crab shampoo?). Until that's changed I don't see this trend of alien victories changing anytime soon.

[Arachnidnexus]

I'd like an update on the stat as well since I feel like aliens have been crushing it lately. Not sure if it's just the alien team getting better or what, but it's weird how well alien players have adapted to the gun buffs and changes marines have gotten. The Crusher buff doesn't hurt either, but it really is like a lot of xeno players have woken up to the fact huggers are hilariously effective as weapons and defenses.

[Steelpoint]

If I mention "Carrier" or "Facehuggers" in dead chat I'm near guaranteed to get a conversation/argument going.

I have noticed in game how Carriers, Facehuggers and Aliens in general are doing very well. The only recent rounds where I was apart of a winning Marine team where, no wait we actually lost that one eventually, my mistake.

I feel with Aliens you can kill their Queen and ravage their hive (which is what we did) yet they will come back and win. With Humans you break into their Nexus, force a retreat and 9 times out of 9 the Marines will never mount a offense to retake the Nexus, then the game turns into waiting for the Aliens to all evolve into T3's and then attack the Sulaco.

[Sanchez13]

If I mention "Carrier" or "Facehuggers" in dead chat I'm near guaranteed to get a conversation/argument going.

I have noticed in game how Carriers, Facehuggers and Aliens in general are doing very well. The only recent rounds where I was apart of a winning Marine team where, no wait we actually lost that one eventually, my mistake.

I feel with Aliens you can kill their Queen and ravage their hive (which is what we did) yet they will come back and win. With Humans you break into their Nexus, force a retreat and 9 times out of 9 the Marines will never mount a offense to retake the Nexus, then the game turns into waiting for the Aliens to all evolve into T3's and then attack the Sulaco.

You just perfectly described nearly all of my recent rounds. Once, we had a round where we were pushing straight into the hive, at least 10-15 marines. Almost all of 'em got shot down to friendly fire despite us CRUSHING them, we retreated, aliens regained their numbers. What we need is stronger offensive options for the Marines IMO, or at the very least we need to balance them out so that the Marines can more effectively apply assaults against the aliens. When all of your squads is getting treated and holding on the Sulaco while the aliums just heal on weeds and increase their numbers, not even late-joiners can save you most of the time.

Doesn't help that the Nexus got nerfed, making it nearly impossible to create a proper FoB with good supply lines without using Comms/Engineering (which almost EVERY SINGLE COMMANDER I SEE SEEM TO NOT KNOW FOR SOME REASON), but I digress.

Marines need to somehow have their offensive options improved IMO, or the aliens are just gonna continue crushing them. Even with 4 specs and coordinated assault teams, wounds and supply issues tend to massacre the marines, nearly 90% of all rounds I've seen recently.

[Adjective]

Me and SAS have actually been talking about the Aliens buff. We both pointed out to each other that we hadn't seen a non-admin assisted marine win during high-pop in two days now.

[Fritigern]

Damn Vrai, better keep that marine bias under wraps you wouldn't want the xeno mains to find out.

[Adjective]

Damn Vrai, better keep that marine bias under wraps you wouldn't want the xeno mains to find out.

I refer to myself as the "Queen Mother" and I skew more than over the line towards alien bias, although I demonstrate neutral positioning more often than otherwise.

[Fritigern]

*Grovels before the Queen Mother, like a proper Canadian.*

But yes, I think it's pretty clear changes need to be made.