Allow Doctors to use Handguns

[Jeser]

You're missing the point. The Sulaco Doctors are not military personnel. ICly there is no reason for them to be armed because up until this point no such thing as an alien existed. Of course usually common sense would dictate that when shit hits the fan, the rules change.

HOWEVER, what we as staff have observed is that the moment aliens board the Sulaco the medical staff stop treating marines and instead pick up a gun and start participating in the fight. Sure, maybe a good doctor or two stay behind to continue treating the sick but our observations yielded that generally speaking, the majority of Sulaco doctors abandon their job when aliens board.

That is why Doctors were disallowed from having guns, and that is why it very likely will not change.

Why then it was restricted to pistols?

[Mycroft Macarthur]

if we arent employees of the U.S. military then why are we here in the first place? again, militaries dont just drag random civilians around with them for a multitude of reasons first of which it fucks up civil rights to go to doctors and say "hey, you work for us now, and if you dont like it we're going to send you space guantanamo for being a terrorist", marines like the OTHER branches of the U.S. armed forces employ their OWN medical staff because its just a good idea and always has been.

ICly there is no reason for them to be armed because up until this point no such thing as an alien existed.

come to think of it that is an excellent point, why do we need to have weapons in the first place since we have no idea that extraterrestrial life is a thing? why would we even INVENT weapons? we have no one to go to war with or to kill or to protect ourselves against, there is absolutely no one that has ever existed that we would need to use weapons on.

wait....wait a second, i just had a thought.

maybe the reason we're armed, and the very reason the colonial marines THEMSELVES exist, is because up till this point HUMAN BEINGS EXISTED

its almost like the entire history of arms development exists as a direct result of the fact that we NEED those weapons to use on each OTHER! it is the very reason for which weapons EXIST! the reason for which MILITARIES exist, because GUNS MAKE YOU SAFE

if that is not true, that is for one of two reasons.

1. whoever is handling the gun at the time is using them irresponsibly

2. the gun is being used on YOU, and you are unarmed and have no means of defending yourself.

but why would we POSSIBLY allow civilians, especially our friends and co workers, to own firearms if the rest of the crew and the captain have exactly ZERO issues with it and since we are in a DANGEROUS AND UNCHARTED REGION OF SPACE, what possible justification could there be to allow ANY civilian to be armed? on an in character level theres no reason to be armed in REAL life either since we dont know that aliens exist so there is NO JUSTIFICATION for allowing people to have guns WHATSOEVER.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,shall not be infringed.

i stand corrected.

and what was that last part you said?

HOWEVER, what we as staff have observed is that the moment aliens board the Sulaco the medical staff stop treating marines and instead pick up a gun and start participating in the fight. Sure, maybe a good doctor or two stay behind to continue treating the sick but our observations yielded that generally speaking, the majority of Sulaco doctors abandon their job when aliens board.

why might that be? i mean lets be serious lets give it some thought.

the first possibility is that those doctors are shit and dont care, and lets be honest if they're terrible at their jobs then you are probably better off anyways, they'd probably cut your ass off during the procedure, make you wear it as a hat and tell you that you are cured even though you came in for a broken arm, no rule can make people stop being shit and honestly if they are this rule wont matter anyways.

the second possibility is that they feel they can do more good with their gun then they can in surgery and to be straight, some rounds are IMPOSSIBLY slow, we tend to have way more doctors then we actually need and/or are actually capable of operating on the amount of injured at any given time (by default only 2 surgery rooms, 3 if we order more tools and on average the medbay staff is like 6 people not counting medics), if someone has noticed they havent had ANYTHING to do all round they are going to leave and help in what manner they can, if the other doctors leave or SSD in the meantime they have NO WAY of knowing that so its hardly their fault.

the third possibility is that medbay ITSELF is being attacked or needs to be defended, in which case its equally the fault of the marines for not protecting the medbay staff, their facilities and the patients within, i dont know about you but if someone comes to fuck up my patients im not going to sit by and ignore it as someone attempts to murder them be they another player or a horrible pissed off alien thingy.

[Tetsip]

Let's not get Constitutional amendments and philosophy into why Doctors should be allowed to handle weaponry. In this setting is it irrelevant as we don't even know if the constitution of the United States of America holds in this universe. Now, I wasn't the one to request or push forward this change, it was a chose by upper-level staff. No constitutional amendment will chance that decision, because the constitutional rights of Americans do not stretch out to private venues such as games.

In the end only the upper-level staff have true say in this. I however agree that doctors should continue to not have weaponry, if only because in the time we limited them to pistols that didn't seem to change a thing. Apophis made the decision to do this because doctors took it upon themselves to fight aliens. As I said, it's worth looking at but because of past errors and attempts to amend the error not working it is unlikely to change.

[Wickedtemp]

Regarding the "But then doctors will go out and fight instead of healing patients."

Last round I was in, I was a doctor. There were two others working with me. Aliens boarded, shit hit the fan, Xeno's were about to break into medbay. So we all grabbed a sidearm.

On the way back to medbay, because we were still doing out jobs as doctors, the ladders to the hangars were overrun and we couldn't pass.

Now, surely we ran into the fight, pistols a blazing, right?

Or...maybe because we're doctors, we began treating the wounded. I alone saved at the very least five or six marines and got them back into the fight, and the other two were working hard as well. We made it to evac, I was still treating people there because one had a popped lung.

The Xeno's broke into the shuttle seconds before it took off, and that was the only time I think I actualy used that handgun. Of course, to the Queen, it won't do much, but it's what any man would do in that situation. Then a bomb went off and Central received a shuttle full of bodies and a Drone.

Yes, doctors would have sworn the Hippocratic oath. So they won't harm humans. But that doesn't mean they can't defend themselves. Honestly, after pulling out the first xeno embryo, I'd be in favor of having a handgun out in case one of them bursts in medbay.

If you don't want doctors running off to Dr. Rambo aliens, then make it clear that handguns can be used by doctors and civilian personal, but they are to be used for self-defense.

Aside from that, unless the enemy is super unrobust, an un-armored doctor with a handgun isn't going to do much against anything above a 1st caste.

Edit: It seems like this is less of an IC issue and more of "Too many doctors went off to fight." Okay, well they aren't doing their jobs as doctors, I would say a warning is in place. If this is a continued trend, job-ban or something.

Aside from that... Imagine you're on a ship with guns everywhere. You work as a doctor on this ship. There are guns everywhere. It's a military ship, with guns everywhere. You treat injured soldiers, surrounded by guns of course, as they're pretty much everywhere. But oh no! Some aliens invade your gun-loaded ship! They're killing soldiers and they're after you! You're surrounded by aliens and guns, what would you, as a sane adult, do to keep yourself from dying? Oh, there's...there's guns everywhere... Maybe you could pick one up and use it? A small one, of course, because maybe you don't have the training to handle the rifle or shotgun.

You would know how to fire it, unload and reload, you've been on a military vessel surrounded by marines and guns, you would have to make a conscious effort to NOT learn anything about firearms.

[Jeser]

But that doesn't mean they can't defend themselves. Honestly, after pulling out the first xeno embryo, I'd be in favor of having a handgun out in case one of them bursts in medbay.

Totally legit and makes sense.

Doctor went in fight, leaving wounded marines? (not protecting them from aliens, holding barricades in medbay, if there are only 1-2 marines, but went into full battle?) Week jobban on SUlaco Medics and CMO, what the problem?

[FatalEYES]

You're missing the point. The Sulaco Doctors are not military personnel. ICly there is no reason for them to be armed because up until this point no such thing as an alien existed. Of course usually common sense would dictate that when shit hits the fan, the rules change.

HOWEVER, what we as staff have observed is that the moment aliens board the Sulaco the medical staff stop treating marines and instead pick up a gun and start participating in the fight. Sure, maybe a good doctor or two stay behind to continue treating the sick but our observations yielded that generally speaking, the majority of Sulaco doctors abandon their job when aliens board.

That is why Doctors were disallowed from having guns, and that is why it very likely will not change.

I personally am not saying that they should be armed the entire time. I'm saying that they should be allowed to arm themselves with a sidearm in the case that the Sulaco is boarded. Yes, their primary objective should still be to help others. But in the event that A: Everyone is still alright or B: Everyone is already dead, they should have SOME means of defending themselves.

[Wickedtemp]

I mean, it's also very fun to play field doctor on the Sulaco. The marines were holding the line, and any time a health bar dropped to yellow: Analyze, tricord hypospray, Tramadol, maybe bicard/KeloDerm, GET BACK IN THERE!

With the occasional OH SHIT THEYRE DRAGGING HIM AWAY! SHOOT IT! SHOOT IT! *pew pew*

I know, doctors aren't field medics, but when medbay is overrun you still need to do your job. And I always have a medical belt with the essentials.

[Wickedtemp]

... Really though, this rule doesn't have a solid justification. If you're on a military ship, you know how to shoot a handgun.

[Dyne]

Moreover, this rule is broken left and right already. A killer lizrd attacking you- you wont preach oath at it- you will fight.
Just ban the Ramboes, and let doctors be armed with sidearms, because that's the de-facto state of affairs now, even doctors picking up rifles of dead marines in last stands.

[TopHatPenguin]

To be honest even if you didn't know how to shoot a gun you would still pick it up and at least try and defend yourself, yes your accuracy would probably be completely shit but you would do anything to try and get your patient out of there and survive the hordes of aliens who just somehow boarded the Sulaco.

[Edgelord]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe every single member of the marines, NCO or otherwise , has gone through boot camp. It's not against reason that doctors would know how to shoot.

[Wickedtemp]

I don't know the lore, but I would suspect that's the case... If not, well there's a shooting range onboard. Who's to say my character didn't spend slow shifts learning to shoot?

[Complete Garbage]

+1, in a recent round, I was CMO and got my head cut off mid-surgery and couldn't defend myself with anything but a circular saw. Of course, the handgun wouldn't have made much of a difference, but at least its something.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

just two rounds ago the MP's broke in while i was in the midst of treating someone for radiation poisoning and opened FIRE on the entire medbay staff without even asking questions or saying anything and it was clear they intended to murder the patient in question, if i hadn't grabbed an SMG at the start of the round those crazy fucks would have killed every doctor onboard the sulaco, the only reason we even HAD a medbay staff the rest of that round was i had managed to kill one and almost the other and i needed three surgeries before i could even RESUME treating patients due to getting shot in the head. (thank god the BO's werent shit or those cockbites would not only have gotten away with it but been allowed to FINISH their dark task)

aliens or not you cant make claims that doctors being armed is metagaming when the rest of the ship is still full of human beings, shit like that is all the justification i need to keep a gun handy at all times.

[Jack McIntyre]

Yea I was thinking just a sidearm, but I was downstairs and all I heard was a mp say, "The Medbay staff is traitors" and even rped gunfire and the CO and the MP's fired on the medical staff. I'm sorry, but I had to treat macarthur so we could get our doctors back up to speed so we could keep up with the marine wounded and when you got Mp's like some of them I know...not naming names, but some people already have ideas I am sure, it is better to have a gun then have them try to arrest you for some stupid reason and then going all shitcurity on you. Yes we get it, this isn't a actual station, but damn it doesn't take a genius to do security right without killing someone.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

epic medteam is epic, didn't even know that was you but damn if we didn't still save numerous marines, that round i literally died in the medbay trying to save a guy who had brain damage, skull fractures and fucked up eyes.



if aliens cant shut the medbay down what do you think YOUR chances are security? you wanna kill my patients then you damn well better be ready for a fight, the aliens at least knew they had to bring five guys all tier3 to stop us from treating the wounded, take your balls out of your purse and come back when you want another go, we'll kill you like all the rest and then bring you back from the dead after you've learned your lesson, want my guns? come get them.

[Jack McIntyre]

XD the best part is how I died down in the hanger, was patching guys up on surgery and got killed before I got one guy ready to go fight, was literally taking off his mask when they killed me. So when I saw you with aliens right outside still working on guys, I am like....fuck yea! That is the two badass doctors who were dominating at their jobs. You can be my other doctor on the ship anytime!

[Wickedtemp]

Last round, apparently the survivors shot at some people when the marines arrived. Which is understandable, given what they've been through. But the MP's were pissed. They dragged the survivors into medbay and beat them with stun batons right in front of me, causing fractures in the survivor.

Then, when another doctor took the survivor into surgery, MP went all stun baton-y again, this time for no damn reason. They resumed beating the already incapacitated patient.

The survivors retaliated and beat the shit out of MP. So now there are two doctors and six people that need surgery. The survivors calm down but MP's are still wanting to fight, so after ahelping and getting approval, it's Doctor "Quit Your Shit" Wick on the scene.

After I was done, all of the MP's were on the floor, paralyzed but stable. Eventually they got fixed up.

The entire round, MP's would go after the survivor and harass them. And the CO was happy to let MP's beat the survivor to death, so basically it became a "Touch the patient, and you lose your walking privileges." Yes, chloral is deadly, but I always administered tricord to keep the toxins down. Nobody, except for an MP who got shot several times, and the survivor, was even close to death.

At the end, it was me, the survivor, my coworker and one MP officer whom I tranquilized (wouldn't stop attacking me or the patient) and dragged to Evac when shit hit the fan. Survivor got geared up and eventually died of their injuries they had gotten in battle.

I found a box of explosives and just began tossing them at the Xeno's, and while I'm sure some of them were wasted it provided enough cover to at least hold the Xeno's off until we left... Except for the Queen who went with us.

Queen got killed though because at that point everyone was armed.

Uh... I mean, not entirely relevant to the whole handgun thing, but it's relevant for MP's with Brutality Boners.

One of them even almost beat the other doctor with a baton because they took the survivors handcuffs off to operate. The survivor had jumped down disposals to escape the MP's and CO beating him and ended up breaking like... Everything, so the cuffs would get in the way of the surgery. MP didn't quite understand that >.>

This deserves it's own thread, but seriously the brutality boning MP's need to act like actual military police, instead of assholes with a baton.

Moral of the story? DON'T FUCK WITH MY PATIENTS, AND DON'T FUCK WITH MEDBAY! OORAH!

[Sgtkumar]

I always carry a pistol on my character when I'm doctoring. I always did before as well. There are times when I need to have one because either I'm in immediate danger, or the MPs are all either working or ssd. In the instances when I need a gun, I only use it when myself or another is in immediate danger from a lethal threat. There have been times when I've augmented an MP with my presence and an sMG in hand because that officer needed help. I've ordered evacuations of medbay while firing shots from my handgun to suppress alien forces. In short, I am breaking the rules constantly to make sure that I am able to provide medical care and safety to my patients, fellow doctors, and crew members. I shouldn't have to break the rules for something that should be allowed.

[Edgelord]

I don't like the idea of doctors having weapons on them, but an emergency locker would be better. After all, when working a doctor wouldn't carry a gun on him.

[Dyne]

I don't like the idea of doctors having weapons on them, but an emergency locker would be better. After all, when working a doctor wouldn't carry a gun on him.

Why not? Holsters exist.

[Edgelord]

It's just the mental image which seems off. I'd like to give them access and permission to use pistols and SMGs, but not have them the entire shift.

[TR-BlackDragon]

just two rounds ago the MP's broke in while i was in the midst of treating someone for radiation poisoning and opened FIRE on the entire medbay staff without even asking questions or saying anything and it was clear they intended to murder the patient in question, if i hadn't grabbed an SMG at the start of the round those crazy fucks would have killed every doctor onboard the sulaco, the only reason we even HAD a medbay staff the rest of that round was i had managed to kill one and almost the other and i needed three surgeries before i could even RESUME treating patients due to getting shot in the head. (thank god the BO's werent shit or those cockbites would not only have gotten away with it but been allowed to FINISH their dark task)

aliens or not you cant make claims that doctors being armed is metagaming when the rest of the ship is still full of human beings, shit like that is all the justification i need to keep a gun handy at all times.

Yea your welcome. I was the BO that started asking all the questions and eventually found out what happened. Then then someone alerted admins and they confirmed my suspicion that they fired lethal first. I'm the one that advised the Co to let you go lol

[Wickedtemp]

Hm... What I learned from this is many people who play as Doctors just arm themselves with a pistol or SMG anyways...

One round I had a service pistol with a red dot and an extended barrel because attachments were plentiful and I was hanging out at the firing range to keep myself busy until the shuttle arrived with more wounded.

[apophis775]

Negative. We just made a rule going the OPPOSITE direction.