Doctors don't use weapons you say?

[Dyne]

If doctors convert themselves to front line troops they break rule 9 and "Doctors may stay in the Sulaco or go to a secured FOB on the planet with the CMO's permission." part of the medical-specific rules already.

[apophis775]

Where are the doctors going to keep the weapons, and the ammo?

They should be using all their space for items to heal people.

[Jack McIntyre]

I know I am defense of doctors not having weapons and I still support that they shouldn't be armed, however I will say that I know if it gets out that doctors don't have weapons xeno players may try to meta that fact and attack the medbay so that they can try to wipe out the doctors or see a doctor at the FOB and know that they can't fight back so they attack them. Kinda have thought about it and kinda of see the point that a doctor would need a gun, also had a hunter wipe out most of medbay once because he got on board and due to idiot command deciding to hunt it alone without marines to help escort and clear, it was a nightmare. That being said I would say that doctors could at least have a pistol.....not a smg, not a rifle, not a fucking shotgun, no helmet, no armor, just a sidearm. One sidearm that they can keep in their pocket and a clip, just one fucking clip. If you have more then you are as Apop said using too much space that could be used to heal people instead of playing soldier. So I would say a compromise would be if you are a doctor and want to be armed, fine, but it has to be a pistol and that is it. If this was real life then I would say absolutely no point completely, but I do know that both sides meta a little bit and xenos finding out that doctors don't carry pistol and seeing one in the FOB who may be at chapel and idiot marines not covering a section could make them lose that doctor who can't defend themselves which a xeno wouldn't know because although they can smell humans, they shouldn't know the armor or weapons they are carrying so, going to go offer a compromise.

[Arachnidnexus]

I feel a lot of the problems would be solved by removing the vents in the operating rooms. It's mid surgery stealthed hunter pounce that's the most frustrating. At least make aliens have to work a little to kill unarmed doctors. Larva can now crawl under doors so they can still make a run for the medbay vents.

[WyattH]

I feel a lot of the problems would be solved by removing the vents in the operating rooms. It's mid surgery stealthed hunter pounce that's the most frustrating. At least make aliens have to work a little to kill unarmed doctors. Larva can now crawl under doors so they can still make a run for the medbay vents.

Don't forget that welding the vents does nothing negative on the Sulaco because atmos is so weird that you don't need vents supplying air.

[Arachnidnexus]

I try to get vents welded in medbay ASAP, but there are times when a lone hunter hitches a ride and then decaps medbay and command by itself before you have a good IC reason to weld them. I'd rather have those solitary xeno hunters work a little bit more to get kills on the docs if docs aren't allowed guns.

[Dyne]

Where are the doctors going to keep the weapons, and the ammo?

They should be using all their space for items to heal people.

I'd say a pocket, but thats up to the doctor.
And not saying all doctors MUST carry a sidearm(Like, say, ROs), just that some could.

[Jack McIntyre]

Yea I would say their choice, but I would agree that if xenos know automatically know that they don't carry a gun then it isn't realistic, and it is a game, so I would say just a sidearm either in pocket or wherever, but aye I would agree Dyne if they don't want to then they don't have to, but it is a option.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

i for one always found i had plenty of space, to be a good doctor you actually dont need to keep alot of shit on hand, heres how i handle things.

you ALWAYS need to have your main three chems (Bicaridine, Dermaline, Dylovene) on hand, dont give me any fucking excuses about chryo being able to do all that shit already, 50% to 90% of all the issues you come across will be solved by applying ONE of those three chems or doing so will prepare them/keep them alive for surgery, pill bottles hold 14 pills apiece and for me thats usually more then you need during an entire round as doctor and i tended to keep VERY busy, marines arent always able or willing to come to medbay to jump in the chryo tubes but even if all you do is walk around and feed pills to wounded marines, you are still TREATING them and keeping them alive and unless they broke a bone or some shit that may be all they actually DO need.

you also need to have antibiotics on hand if you ever do surgery, i dont know why but for some reason they sometimes get infections even if you wash your hands pretty regular, it sucks but one pill of spaceacillin and they're good to go, i guarantee you'll never use the whole bottle so just vend one from a nanomed, shove it in your medical belt and save it for later

lastly you need a way to stop bleeding so vend an advanced trauma patch from a nanomed, store it in your belt and break it out any time the med scanner says someone is bleeding, in fact if you ran out of bicaridine somehow these bad boys can work just as easy, they dont work as fast, need to be targeted and are just less convenient overall but they still get it done.

you should have two free slots left in your medical belt to use whatever the fuck, i personally like to take an adv burn patch for when their damage is too low to justify dermaline, and tramadol, if we have any on hand ill swap my tramadol for peridaxon which can instantly seal lung ruptures if they're dying (its more for emergencies imo, if their lung is ruptured 99% of the time they'll have chest fractures which will rupture the lungs AGAIN if you leave it untreated, save the peridax for when that isn't the case or when they're dying and you have nothing else on hand)



so with your medical belt stocked full of chems and shit what else can doctors get?

well having a medical scanner (the handheld not the hud) at all times will make rapid identification of issues easier, put one in a pocket slot and put a flashlight in your other pocket.

sometimes people come into medbay with damaged cyberlimbs, to treat those all you need is a welder and some wire coils and NOTHING ELSE WHATSOEVER, unfortunately the devs and mappers in their infinite wisdom have forgotten to stock the medbay so in order to get your hands on some you have to break into one of the tech storage rooms, you can find one to the left of the RO and one next to the bridge, if you explain what you need them for most marines will give exactly zero fucks since you NEED those materials to save lives, the fact that you had to break in at ALL is the devs fault and NOT YOURS.

so you should have five backpack slots free, what other medical shit can we keep in there?

well the game starts us off with a red medkit so i usually shove mine in there and forget it since it doesn't do anything my belt of chems cant do already, what might be better is to get a blue medkit from medbay or to grab a cryostasis bag in case we get boarded and we cant use medbay anymore, the bag will keep dying marines alive on the shuttle and the blue medkit can help keep guys going if lung issues are slowly killing them and you dont have peridax (dex+ is just handy in general if people ever have oxygen damage for any reason)

so if you have either a medkit or stasis bag you are down to four slots free.

well from here i like to grab a defib from medical storage, i know they only work like 1% of the time but theres really no justification for NOT carrying one, just shove it in there and forget about it unless you see a marine you think can be saved.





with all that, we have 3 backpack slots left, prettymuch every medical situation that can come up is covered and we just dont have the space in our packs to carry a full set of surgical tools so if your like me, you grab an SMG and two magazines and throw it in there, honestly as a doctor you shouldn't have a SHIT TON of weapons so that should be all that will genuinely ever come up, dont want to carry guns? grab some food instead, lets be honest most of us dont take the time to eat in advance of busy periods and odds are good when you DO finally get hungry you will also be really busy and cant get down to the mess hall, having food stored in advance means you can just take it from your pack and eat it, if thats too videogamey for you then you can grab various roleplay bits like pens, cigarettes, lighters and so on, or you can just keep the three slots empty.


and even after ALLL that shit, ALL the stuff we just covered, all the room and all the items you can manage to carry with you then guess what, if you wear any kind of a lab coat or first responders jacket or anything that would take up the exo slot then remember its like armor in the sense that it can carry two items, i like to keep a knife and a handgun in mine but you can use those two extra slots for anything you want, ANYTHING AT ALL.

are you a donator? remember, your outfit is not like armor, it isn't cosmetic, it IS ARMOR! that means your shoes (if you have custom shoes) will also store a knife the same as any marine boots, that suit slot doctors ordinarily cant use? that slot is free for anything you want, as a doctor i like to keep an emergency oxygen tank in mine, paired with a gas mask you will be ready if the ship is depressurized, for the most part however that slot cannot be used by almost any item EXCEPT weapons of some kind, it is a slot specifically designated for weapons so if you cant justify ANY of your backpack space or belt space or even your armor/jacket slots for anything but medicine then you can still carry a weapon in that one slot, and for non donators this still applies to you since if the ship gets boarded you suddenly have a justification to trade your lab coat in for armor, regardless of ANY rules about doctors having guns or any convention or agreement by the U.N. that says doctors arent meant to be carrying a gun, there just arent much in the way of laws regarding BODY ARMOR which is purely defensive.







and THAT is how doctors can manage to carry weapons without even REMOTELY impairing their ability to perform their duties as a medical professional aboard the sulaco, now im not the best doctor thats ever played SS13 or even CM itself, maybe SOMEDAY ill be the best but that day is not today. however of everyone who has ever complained about me not a DAMN one of them has been one of my patients, if i can do it then SO CAN YOU!

[Wickedtemp]

If we allowed doctors weapons, it would shift the focus. Also by "weapons" we are referring to guns/rockets/flamethrowers.

But here's the thing, if we allowed doctors to have weapons, it would be ONLY under specific conditions (sulaco has been mass-boarded). So that "sneaky hunter" situation, would still be possible, because you wouldn't be allowed weapons in that situation.

Basically, we don't want doctors "stocking up" on weapons just in case, or shooting marines because they "feel" threatened. As a doctor, your primary focus is to HEAL OTHERS, you are also a LIMITED SUPPLY, and the marines SHOULD be taking extreme measures to protect you. A perfect example why, is last night. Last night, the aliens were attacking and the 2 doctors had weapons and engaged the aliens (despite medbay not even being threatened). They were QUICKLY killed and then the marines were fighting a battle of attrition against the aliens and the carrier, being unable to "heal" anyone infected, they were basically fighting a losing battle.


Unfortunately, when doctors are allowed weapons, they convert themselves to front-line troops instead of staying as DOCTORS. Which, as some of you (who have donated and have access to the dev forums) know, doctors are shortly going to be classified as "civilians".

I already addressed this. Doctors who metagame and stock up weapons for xenos, and/or use firearms on marines when it's not ICly justified deserve a note. Doctors who rush the xenos with weapons, same thing.

And I've said SO many times, "ONLY when boarded and/or medbay is overrun. At any other point if you have a weapon, that's bad."

I also clarified it would be for small firearms ONLY. Pistols (which my be needing a slight buff anyways for how useless they are to be honest) and MAYBE an SMG because those are the only weapons that a person without a lot of training could use... Aside from the Magnum and Shotgun, but those deal a bit too much damage to just hand them to medical staff, it'd actually probably affect balance. And to clarify AGAIN.

ONLY WHEN BOARDED, ONLY SMALL FIREARMS (Pistol/SMG)

As for the issue of "But what about running out of space?!"

That's actually super easy to answer...

Just about EVERYTHING a doctor needs can fit on the medical belt, EASILY. Syringe cases with bicard, KD, Tramadol, Dexalin Plus, Dylovene, then a Trauma kit and a Burn kit. Then, splints and a first aid kit in the backpack, maybe replace the extra gauze with advanced kits or quick-clot. Pill bottle with Peridraxon goes in the labcoat.

Congratulations, you can stabilize just about anything now. Now, that leaves only... several places in the backpack, labcoat pocket, or put it in a box with other things and THEN put that in the backpack. Space isn't a problem.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

As for the issue of "But what about running out of space?!"

That's actually super easy to answer...

Just about EVERYTHING a doctor needs can fit on the medical belt, EASILY. Syringe cases with bicard, KD, Tramadol, Dexalin Plus, Dylovene, then a Trauma kit and a Burn kit. Then, splints and a first aid kit in the backpack, maybe replace the extra gauze with advanced kits or quick-clot. Pill bottle with Peridraxon goes in the labcoat.

Congratulations, you can stabilize just about anything now. Now, that leaves only... several places in the backpack, labcoat pocket, or put it in a box with other things and THEN put that in the backpack. Space isn't a problem.

thats....thats literally what i just said.

[Wickedtemp]

thats....thats literally what i just said.

Yeah... I was on my phone at first and the fourth page of posts didn't load correctly, so I didn't see your post until later... But hey, now there's two doctors who both KNOW there's enough space for a firearm and one or two magazines.

[Archelgray18]

I'm not sure I'm clear on how all this works, I thought I did but then I noticed my Monk does have the weapon animation when he attacks with A, my weapon is on my main hand and I have a shield on my off-hand. When I remove my weapon and check the character screen, I see a huge difference in damage rating and so the weapon damage rating is definitely adding to my overall damage rating, but it's like you guys are saying weapons are only used for adding the buffs and not for the damage aspect?

[Wickedtemp]

... I still think this is a relevant topic, and since pretty much every argument against doctors being allowed small weapons in the event of being boarded has been shot down, the Staff should take this into consideration.

[razerwing]

So it was recently brought to my attention that Doctors on the Sulaco don't use guns. Or rather, they aren't allowed to CARRY guns with them. Not even pistols, unless special exceptions are made. Or so I'm told. So, now I'm here to give you my two cents about why this rule should be revised.

My biggest thing right now is that looking at the rules, the Doctors and the CMO are LITERALLY the only ones told that they cannot carry guns. The RO and Cargo? They can have guns. They aren't specifically told that they cannot carry guns. The MT's? They aren't singled out either. The Researcher, WHO IS PART OF MEDSCI is authorized a pistol. When was the last time a Xeno was even brought in alive? Doctors are the only ones who have been singled out like this. And that bothers me to no end.

You say that the doctors would shift their focus from treating people to killing xenos? If a doctor is allowed to gear up in the event of a breach, then that means they wouldn't get to treat people anyways. Why? Because if there are Xenos on the ship, the Surgery is impossible to do safely. Even with marines in the medbay, they will sneak in and ruin your day. Because you don't have a gun. See what I'm getting at here?

Where are they going to keep weapons and ammo? Maybe if a Service Pistol could still fit in a pocket or a jacket like they used to, this wouldn't be an issue. And of course you wouldn't grab magazine for a pistol, it's a last ditch weapon. If you're using it you're screwed anyways. A doctor should be using all their space for healing items? I have a lot of experience doing Field Medic work and Sulaco Medical work on this server, and I can tell you that not only do you not need to fill every pocket with medication, but that it's also a bad idea. You spend a lot of time looking through your meds. All you need to be a good doctor is a medkit of each color, a Stasis bag, and an Emergency kit. That leave both your Jumpsuit pockets open, a Backpack slot open, and your jacket pockets open. That's one slot for the gun, and four slots for ammo.

Aside from your claims that the doctors would shift focus from their job, you can't tell me that they wouldn't be trained in firearm usage either. Namely because they are on a military ship, with military jarheads, and a military firing range in their hangar. They would know the proper way to handle a rifle, if not how to fieldstrip it. They would be able to hold themselves in a position to take the recoil of a rifle, and to keep shots on target. Because it is there, and I doubt anyone would pass up the chance to fire an M4A1 pulse rifle or any other military hardware at something that can't shoot back.

And now, here's a very big point. I saved this one for last. HUMAN INSTINCT. These things murdered everyone who went planetside. And now they're coming to your ship. What are you going to do first? You're going to grab a gun-powder powered hole puncher so you can punch some holes in these things. Or at the very least try. And now you're telling me that I have to play my character against the basic human instinct of self preservation on threat of being job banned?

Apop, I read your stance on this ruling. You are an ornery, ornery person when it comes to things like this. But what you have effectively done is left Medical absolutely defenseless. You can't rely on a marine to save your ass. You can't rely on the MP down the hall to save your ass. The only thing you can rely on is yourself, and your GUN. And even that might not save your ass. It'll just make the aliens work a little harder for its next host.

All it would take to make this a non-issue is to remove that little bit on the doctor's ruling. This is Colonial Marines. There is no such thing as a 'Pacifist Job Slot', just like there's no such thing as 'Box Mags for Shotguns'. The doctor slot is for people who want to do medical, but don't want to get shot in the back of the head, pushed around, yelled at, or deal with the general fucknuggetry that is the Marine Body. Seriously, please consider it.

[Azmodan412]

People are complaining about this but I have had a BAD experience and say doctors should not even have guns, not even handguns. Leave handguns to the Researcher. Big reason: Doctor running around with an M41A and shooting people randomly. I, as CO, walked out of Requisitions lobby to see this doctor who just randomly opened fire on me. I had to put said doctor down myself but the doctor put me into critical condition. I don't even remember the doctor's name, but it was taken care of.

Edit 1: I would like to place a suggestion to remove Marine Prep access from the Doctor ID card. It would crack down on doctors grabbing weaponry because no marine is going to let a medical civilian take their weapon.

[Wickedtemp]

If a doctor was shooting people randomly, then they're not just a bad doctor but also probably a griefer. Ahelp, player report, ban.

And yeah, literally every argument against doctors using a weapon has been shot down.

• Self Preservation > Oath
• Lives on a Military Vessel, probably has at least SOME training.
• Only viable way to defend yourself, common sense.
• Doctors that leave their patients to fight? Ahelp, player report, job ban. They're shit doctors.
• Yes, doctors have PLENTY of space to hold a gun. Even with the change of SMGs to big for bags, pistols too big for coats, I'll just reorganize again for room. By the way, a pistol would totally fit in a coat pocket.
• "A doctor should ONLY heal people!" Hard to do that when aliens are attacking. If you have a gun, it's MUCH easier.
• Literally everyone else can have a gun.
• The researcher, which is a part of the same branch as the doctor, has a gun.
• A lot of doctors grab a gun anyway because they aren't stupid and know that aliens would easily kill them otherwise.

There is no counter argument. There's no reason to prevent them from grabbing a weapon when the Queen calls the shuttle.

Just make it the same as MP. No lethals until an alien gets on the ship. It's so damn simple.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

• Doctors that leave their patients to fight? Ahelp, player report, job ban. They're shit doctors.

We've enjoyed a much higher doctoring rate ever since we introduced this rule. The issue is that, the moment doctors see that the Sulaco has been invaded, they draw their guns and try and fight. This is when they are needed the most, and the Medbay becomes a graveyard.

You have no idea how much the rule has improved things during the invasion phase. Statistically, it's been for the best.

[Wickedtemp]

The medbay becomes a graveyard because doctors can't do anything about the aliens killing them. It's fairly common for the Xeno's to attack medbay first because chances are, everyone there is either too injured to fight, or completely unarmed.

If you think it's the rule of "No weapons period" that stops doctors from going rambo and leaving patients, then I'm pretty sure a rule of "Doctors are authorized a sidearm in the case of emergencies, however their top priority at all times is the health of their patients." would do pretty much the same.

Yes, idiot doctors will still do idiot things as they always have, but this way the doctors that are actually good at playing Medical, that follow the rules and act accordingly, will have a bit more freedom.

And aside from that, all of the other points I made still stand. As well as this counter.

[WyattH]

Honestly there is solution for some of these medbay issues without allowing them guns. Although I doubt staff/admins would do the changes.

1) Make doctor jumpsuits armored in some way rather than nothing
2) Make doctor hats and labcoats armored more than nothing
3) Make doctor latex gloves armored
4) Make doctor masks stop 1 hugger

5) Increase melee damage dealt by saw/scalpel
6) Increase melee damage and burn damage dealt by laser scalpel

7) Have a button next to medbay ladder to drop the bolts on the door like engine has for engine room doors

8) Allow MPs full access to medbay including surgery

Really ANY of these changes would improve the situation in medbay where aliens will rush your ladder or aliens will meta-ventcrawl to surgery just to fuck you up since they know you got no armor and your weak scalpel and saw won't stop them before they pop your head off. Allowing MPs full access will help a little in having someone be able to rescue your ass although it isn't ideal.

[Wickedtemp]

I mean, as nice as that would be, it doesn't make too much sense...

Normally the Sulaco isn't expecting to be attacked, so the doctor's gear would have no reason to be armored to begin with. What would make more sense is to have medical hardsuits for emergencies.

Increasing brute damage from medical equipment won't really help anything. If you're going toe to toe, melee, against a xeno, you're going to lose. Especially when not allowed armor.

Despite this, when the Sulaco is boarded and I'm playing Doctor? I go to the armory and get a helmet. Because not only do I have to worry about aliens and huggers, but also friendly fire because the whole ship is basically a potential hot-zone.

EDIT: MP won't help at all. At most you'll have like... 2 people. At worst, zero, either because they're already dead or because there weren't any to begin with.

[apophis775]

Um no? Doctors are supposed to be SUPER MEGA weak. They aren't made for combat or anything. They should be defended by, not protected with unnecessary buffs.

[Wickedtemp]

Okay, so no pointless defense buffs, back to the original discussion.

I've already covered every argument against doctors having a sidearm in the case of aliens getting on the Sulaco.

[razerwing]

Um no? Doctors are supposed to be SUPER MEGA weak. They aren't made for combat or anything. They should be defended by, not protected with unnecessary buffs.

I don't understand this. I really don't. I have yet to see a character over the age of 40. You have to be mentally and physically fit to go into space. At all. You are serving aboard a military vessel, and to be honest if the Sulaco doesn't have a reputation at this point then it should. And you are asking people to split forces. You know, once when I was playing a round where the Sulaco had been boarded I had asked people to organize defense for the Medical bay and the bridge. I got neither. You can't expect people to defend medbay. They generally always reinforce the hangar and the ladders, and the second that goes through the grinder Medbay goes right afterwards.

Doctors are not supposed to be super mega weak because they are not super mega old. Every character I've seen has been in their prime, save for maybe the CL (who has a gun, mind you). No, they are not MADE for fighting, but they are not MADE SUPER MEGA WEAK either.

Stamos, I read that you said that statistically speaking doctors have been doing their jobs more because ever since you introduced this rule. Was this rule introduced around the same time that other more combat oriented roles were? For example, the Specialist, which everyone seems to want to play? Or the marines in general, who get to now snap a bunch of cool new bits to their guns?

I can promise you that the introduction of the rule isn't solely responsible for the amount of doctors doing their jobs, and I can say this with the utmost belief and sincerity because when I was playing back before the alpha map, I saw doctors doing their jobs even with guns allowed. I watched doctors have runners pop up in their surgery rooms mid surgery with another marine standing by, only for the marine to get pounced and hugged by said runner. The doctor would gun it down, save the marine, and continue surgery.

What you have done by introducing this ruling is made it so that ones who do actually do their jobs are left defenseless. And I still don't understand why Doctors are THE ONLY ONES affected by this rule. The Researcher doubles as a doctor. He gets a gun. That makes no sense. It's not logical.

[Wickedtemp]

I don't understand this. I really don't. I have yet to see a character over the age of 40. You have to be mentally and physically fit to go into space. At all. You are serving aboard a military vessel, and to be honest if the Sulaco doesn't have a reputation at this point then it should. And you are asking people to split forces. You know, once when I was playing a round where the Sulaco had been boarded I had asked people to organize defense for the Medical bay and the bridge. I got neither. You can't expect people to defend medbay. They generally always reinforce the hangar and the ladders, and the second that goes through the grinder Medbay goes right afterwards.

Doctors are not supposed to be super mega weak because they are not super mega old. Every character I've seen has been in their prime, save for maybe the CL (who has a gun, mind you). No, they are not MADE for fighting, but they are not MADE SUPER MEGA WEAK either.

Stamos, I read that you said that statistically speaking doctors have been doing their jobs more because ever since you introduced this rule. Was this rule introduced around the same time that other more combat oriented roles were? For example, the Specialist, which everyone seems to want to play? Or the marines in general, who get to now snap a bunch of cool new bits to their guns?

I can promise you that the introduction of the rule isn't solely responsible for the amount of doctors doing their jobs, and I can say this with the utmost belief and sincerity because when I was playing back before the alpha map, I saw doctors doing their jobs even with guns allowed. I watched doctors have runners pop up in their surgery rooms mid surgery with another marine standing by, only for the marine to get pounced and hugged by said runner. The doctor would gun it down, save the marine, and continue surgery.

What you have done by introducing this ruling is made it so that ones who do actually do their jobs are left defenseless. And I still don't understand why Doctors are THE ONLY ONES affected by this rule. The Researcher doubles as a doctor. He gets a gun. That makes no sense. It's not logical.

Oh, but Razer! Why don't you just call the one or two MP guys that have minimal armor to come fight the horde of aliens! I'm sure they'll help! /s

This. Right here. If the "git gud and just call MP or whatever" actually worked, this wouldn't be a discussion. It really wouldn't be. Because you know what happens pretty much every time the xenos invade and don't get slaughtered in the hangar?

They head up to medbay and kill every doctor, because they know the doctors don't have shit to protect themselves with. Now, if they did, maybe they could save themselves and continue treating patients. For some reason you guys think that it's easy to do surgery while aliens are breaking in.